John Masters Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I have been doing my homework... Although Albania withdrew support in 1961, it didn't formally leave until 1968 and then only as a response to the Invasion of Czechoslovakia. Hoxha felt that Soviet Communism had become too liberal following Stalin. Go figure. So...can I build something Albanian as long as it is during the 1960-68 period? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 4 hours ago, John D.C. Masters said: I have been doing my homework... Although Albania withdrew support in 1961, it didn't formally leave until 1968 and then only as a response to the Invasion of Czechoslovakia. Hoxha felt that Soviet Communism had become too liberal following Stalin. Go figure. So...can I build something Albanian as long as it is during the 1960-68 period? You have indeed and yes you can In fact if you don't mind I'll steal your post to pin into the rules once our GB kicks off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 My original plan was to build an Italian F-86K, then I hit a problem: the 1/72 Special Hobby kit has a wrong wing, being a narrow chord wing with the extensions of the wider chord F-40 wing... the easiest way to sort this is to remove the extensions and build one of the original aircrafts with the F-86D style narrow wing. Unfortunately I found that these aircrafts were retrofitted with the F-40 wing before 1960, so I'll only be able to build one of these aircrafts if I can find a suitable wing. If I can't then I'll build a Yak-27 in service with the VVS in East Germany in the late '60s... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, Giorgio N said: My original plan was to build an Italian F-86K, then I hit a problem: the 1/72 Special Hobby kit has a wrong wing, being a narrow chord wing with the extensions of the wider chord F-40 wing... the easiest way to sort this is to remove the extensions and build one of the original aircrafts with the F-86D style narrow wing. Unfortunately I found that these aircrafts were retrofitted with the F-40 wing before 1960, so I'll only be able to build one of these aircrafts if I can find a suitable wing. If I can't then I'll build a Yak-27 in service with the VVS in East Germany in the late '60s... I'd love to see you do an F-86K in Italian service Giorgio so perhaps we need to get chatting about the 50s edition of our GB for it In the meantime a Yak-27 would make a fine subsitute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I know the 50's GB is a way away yet, although we should probably start canvassing for members soon, I already know what my subject matter will be for that GB (an RAF Sabre). Given that NATO was formed in 1949, wouldn't it be logical to have the 1950's GB run from 1949-1959? NATO vs WarPac, the first 10 years? Although the problem with that is that the WarPac wasn't founded until 1955... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Wez said: I know the 50's GB is a way away yet, although we should probably start canvassing for members soon, I already know what my subject matter will be for that GB (an RAF Sabre). Given that NATO was formed in 1949, wouldn't it be logical to have the 1950's GB run from 1949-1959? NATO vs WarPac, the first 10 years? Although the problem with that is that the WarPac wasn't founded until 1955... The 50s edition isn't going to be such a straight-forward one as the previous editions due to these factors Perhaps the GB will need to be more about the formation of NATO and Warpac from the various European states during that period? 50s NATO Vs Warpac in Europe GB; Into The Cold War. Or do we extend it back to mid-45 and the end of the Second World War so from 45 to 59? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I think if you extend it back to '45 then it might be ok to include proxy conflicts as part of the acceptable build list. Just an idea... Regarding the 60-69 GB...I would love to find a definitive list of aircraft used by the member countries of both groups. There seems to be a fair amount of 'bleeding', i.e. 1940s, '50s craft being used well into the '60s as trainers and observation/recce units. Like the T-6 Harvard, earlier Migs, etc...wish I had those notes. From the way we are all talking about it, this will be a tremendous GB. The thing doesn't start until July... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 ...and let's not forget the AN-2 (Colt). They're still flying that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanjuro Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 This might help: https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/aircraft-1960-1969.asp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aircraft_of_the_Soviet_Union_and_the_CIS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Canadian_military_aircraft_1960–1969 (Canada - Czechoslovakia -China - France - Germany - Italy - Japan - Poland - Soviet Union - Yugoslavian - United Kingdom - United States) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 2 hours ago, John D.C. Masters said: I think if you extend it back to '45 then it might be ok to include proxy conflicts as part of the acceptable build list. Just an idea... Regarding the 60-69 GB...I would love to find a definitive list of aircraft used by the member countries of both groups. There seems to be a fair amount of 'bleeding', i.e. 1940s, '50s craft being used well into the '60s as trainers and observation/recce units. Like the T-6 Harvard, earlier Migs, etc...wish I had those notes. From the way we are all talking about it, this will be a tremendous GB. The thing doesn't start until July... I've been thinking about a small wars GB lately so perhaps keep those proxy conflics which occured outside the European theater for that one if it goes ahead? The 45 to 59 period will give us a broad range of interesting subjects and track a transition in not only technology but also politics and society across our geographical area. The period from 60 to 69 will also give us a considerable range of subjects but the remit is as always to keep them to front-line types so trainer aircraft are only eligible if they retained a secondary combat role. 2 hours ago, John D.C. Masters said: ...and let's not forget the AN-2 (Colt). They're still flying that thing. I've had a good poke around in one of those things and they are the aviation equivalent of a stone axe so will likely last forever 1 hour ago, Sanjuro said: This might help: https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/aircraft-1960-1969.asp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aircraft_of_the_Soviet_Union_and_the_CIS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Canadian_military_aircraft_1960–1969 (Canada - Czechoslovakia -China - France - Germany - Italy - Japan - Poland - Soviet Union - Yugoslavian - United Kingdom - United States) It certainly will for the aviation side of our GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Count me in with a 'Small Wars' GB. Truly diverse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, John D.C. Masters said: Count me in with a 'Small Wars' GB. Truly diverse. I'll go start a thread for that one shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Does anyone know when AH-1G's first deployed to Europe? Was it after 1970 or did some reach operational units before the 60's were over? The only info I have right now is that tests were condcted in Ansbach, Germany in the early 70's on the effectiveness of AirCav in an anti-tank role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I am glad this GB is months away. It gives me the time to do some research and I am finding that very difficult. Oddly, the Warsaw 'group' is easy...an assortment of Migs (17-21) and some helicopters...The hard part are the NATO aircraft and their assorted markings. So many references to F-84, 86 family; Corsairs, etc...are all Vietnam based. Not so much as what was parked in Germany, Spain, Turkey (are we including Turkey?), Norway, BeNeLux...damned difficult, I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 On 31/12/2017 at 6:04 PM, John D.C. Masters said: I think if you extend it back to '45 then it might be ok to include proxy conflicts as part of the acceptable build list. Just an idea... Regarding the 60-69 GB...I would love to find a definitive list of aircraft used by the member countries of both groups. There seems to be a fair amount of 'bleeding', i.e. 1940s, '50s craft being used well into the '60s as trainers and observation/recce units. Like the T-6 Harvard, earlier Migs, etc...wish I had those notes. From the way we are all talking about it, this will be a tremendous GB. The thing doesn't start until July... Right out of my head I can only help with Italian Air Force aircrafts... In 1960 the combat aircrafts in service were the Sabre Mk.4 (former RAF aircrafts) as day fighters, the F-86K as all weather/night fighters and the F-84F as fighter bombers/strike. Starting in 1963 the Air Force received a large number of F-104G, replacing the Sabre Mk.4 and the F-84F. The F-86K remained in service a little longer, the last ones making it into the '70s. Speaking of Starfighters, the S variant entered service in mid 1969 with 22nd Group of 51 Stormo, so the S really falls very marginally within the timeframe of the GB. In the meantime the G.91 had also entered service... the very first aircrafts entered service in 1958 but really operations started in 1961. The two seater entered service in 1964 but this was not a combat type. The Y variant of the G.91 first flew in 1966 but I'm not sure if the type became operational before 1970. If ASW aircrafts are eligible for the GB, the type used through the whole decade was the Grumman Tracker. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Thank you Giorgio. This is the kind of information I need. I think I am not looking in the right place, or I am so unsure of jet-age aircraft and that I do not have the knowledge that I have for pre-WW2 birds. Probably a bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 ...and here's something from Wikipedia... "West Germany bought 15 Gannet AS.4s and one T.5 in 1958. They operated as the anti-submarine squadron of Marinefliegergeschwader 2 (2nd Naval Fighter Wing) from Jagel and Sylt. In 1963 the squadron was reassigned to MFG 3 at Nordholz Naval Airbase until the Gannets were replaced by the Breguet Br.1150 Atlantic in 1966." Hmmm. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, John D.C. Masters said: ...and here's something from Wikipedia... "West Germany bought 15 Gannet AS.4s and one T.5 in 1958. They operated as the anti-submarine squadron of Marinefliegergeschwader 2 (2nd Naval Fighter Wing) from Jagel and Sylt. In 1963 the squadron was reassigned to MFG 3 at Nordholz Naval Airbase until the Gannets were replaced by the Breguet Br.1150 Atlantic in 1966." Hmmm. Marineflieger decals are generally included in Gannet kits, so it should be quite easy to build one of these machines Speaking of the Marineflieger, they used Sea Hawks into the mid '60s untile they were replaced with Starfighters. And the Dutch Navy also used the Sea Hawk, retiring them in 1964 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Thank you Giorgio...excellent information. Ephxaristo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 4:13 AM, Giorgio N said: My original plan was to build an Italian F-86K, then I hit a problem: the 1/72 Special Hobby kit has a wrong wing, being a narrow chord wing with the extensions of the wider chord F-40 wing... the easiest way to sort this is to remove the extensions and build one of the original aircrafts with the F-86D style narrow wing. Unfortunately I found that these aircrafts were retrofitted with the F-40 wing before 1960, so I'll only be able to build one of these aircrafts if I can find a suitable wing. I've been researching an Italian F-86K as well Giorgio, and have the Special Hobby kit too. It looks like the Hobby Boss F-86F-40 kit has the wing we need, but successfully attaching it is another thing altogether! It also seems that the SH fuselage is 16 scale inches longer than the F-86D rather than the required 8 inches (thus 8 scale inches too long), but I think I'm willing to live with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 04/01/2018 at 11:20, John D.C. Masters said: ...and here's something from Wikipedia... "West Germany bought 15 Gannet AS.4s and one T.5 in 1958. German Gannet! That gets a big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Here's a good link... http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 10/1/2018 at 7:08 PM, Cookenbacher said: I've been researching an Italian F-86K as well Giorgio, and have the Special Hobby kit too. It looks like the Hobby Boss F-86F-40 kit has the wing we need, but successfully attaching it is another thing altogether! It also seems that the SH fuselage is 16 scale inches longer than the F-86D rather than the required 8 inches (thus 8 scale inches too long), but I think I'm willing to live with that. Thanks for the info ! I have the HB F-86F-40, I may check the wing and see if it can be made to fit. At least the HB kit is cheap ! I've heard of the error in length, I believe this error is there but as you I think I'll live with it. I should mention that there is another source of a correct F-40 wing in the Special Hobby F-86H. This is right in chord and span and could be an easy enough fit. The problem is that this would leave the H without a wing and this is not really a cheap kit to buy for the wing alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Keep the ideas coming gang. We are, as is often the case, aviation biased at the moment but there was plenty heavy metal clanking around at the time and a whole lot more out to sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickThompson Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Would be tempted by participating in this one, my initial thought would be to go for a 57th FIS F-102A based at NAS Keflavik, Iceland from 1962 throughout the 60's and into the early 70's. However, a little query on whether these aircraft will be eligible ... While not under USAFE command but US based Air Combat Command there lead role was the interception of USSR aircraft in the Greenland, Iceland and the United Kingdom Gap. So would a F-102A be eligible for this GB? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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