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MGB40


robgizlu
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Well with the BMP-2 nearing Completion I had planned on building a Chivenor F.8 Meteor but Mr Kev "Longshanks" has lead me astray back to Coastal Defence craft.

 

This is Nowhere near as ambitious as his Dog Boat and began a while back on a place a long way away.  So it's off he shelf of shame and here's a quick resumé.

 

The inspiration is from "Coastal Craft  British Power Boat Company Vol 2" by Mark Smith.  If you have any interest in wartime British Coastal craft you HAVE to get these (currently) 3 volumes that are all full of inspirational potential builds.

 

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MGB40 was a BPB 63 ft "Whaleback" boat originally built as an MTB for the Norwegian Navy and then requisitioned by the RN in 1940.  It began life as an anti-sub boat then was converted to MGB.

 

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Original pictures are few - this is MGB 44 later sold to the Polish Navy with an identical configuration

 

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The kit will very obviously be the venerable Airfix Air Sea Resuce launch

 

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I've always felt there is a half decent kit trying to get out of this mid-70s offering.

 

Coastal Craft come to the rescue with the twin Vickers MG tub, fittings and appropriate Decals.

 

Edited by robgizlu
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DSCF7766_zpsswbiiwdk.jpg

 

 

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I also used Dave Cov's excellent build as a primer

 

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/Airfix_RAF_Rescue_Launch_Group_Build_DaveCov_s_Build_about4665.html&start=20

 

The Airfix kit has some major flaws including "filled in" Deck/toe rails and  moulded on scramble nets.

The deck rails figure prominently so I set about fashioning an appearance which is out of scale but has a visual impact

 

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The coach house needs to be shortened and the windows raised compared to the RAF version

 

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More soon

Thanks for looking

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Fellas, I appreciate the support.

The Coastal Craft Vickers 0.5in Twin Tub mounting is a thing of casting beauty...

 

DSCF7767_zpsljc7bzer.jpg

 

The castings do however have very thick bases

 

DSCF7768_zpscdkwgm2c.jpg

 

One of your special friends is a razor saw...

 

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And the other is graded Buffing sticks and an enormous amount of patience..

 

DSCF7770_zps91qajhde.jpg

 

The cast assembly is Very delicate - this sanding process took over an hour, though the end result seems worthwhile.  The top bar got broken and I'll Superglue that when I've stopped fiddling.

 

DSCF7771_zpsueeioaxv.jpg

 

Which leads us to the Ventral Hump housing - awkward to model with its curves to fit the sloping coach house and it's rounded nature.

i set off cutting a couple of pieces got carried away and failed to rake any in between pics.  Thanks To Longshanks for his tip about putting 2 pieces in a grip - I used my Small Shop "Bug" and then filed each sidewall together to get a symmetrical deck fit

And the end result is this...

 

DSCF7772_zpswlkbq1yd.jpg

 

DSCF7773_zpsp66j2mio.jpg

 

The edges will need to be trimmed and rounded off.  I'm going to fill the interior with A+B modelling putty in case I "breakthrough" the plastic

and just to keep the motivation going - here's some dry fit shots to show where this is going

 

DSCF7774_zpsl0xegceg.jpg

 

DSCF7775_zpswyxbgmkf.jpg

 

The build will get put on hold for a couple of weeks when I do some white slidey stuff.

Thanks for looking

Rob

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4 hours ago, robgizlu said:

this sanding process took over an hour, though the end result seems worthwhile.

 

I take my hat off to you sir..... that's perseverance but it's paid off.

 

4 hours ago, robgizlu said:

Thanks To Longshanks for his tip

 

If we all help each other ............

 

That coach roof is shaping up nicely. Have you got your lewis guns yet?

 

Enjoy your break but don't break anything

 

Kev

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Very interesting thread and great build.

Would the RAF Rescue Boat hull be accurate also for Polish S2? I always wanted to do one of those (S2 or S3). These were named "Wilczur" and "Wyżeł" ("German Shepherd" and "Pointer").

Edited by GrzeM
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/8/2017 at 0:19 AM, longshanks said:

 

That coach roof is shaping up nicely. Have you got your lewis guns yet?

 

Enjoy your break but don't break anything

 

Kev

 

Kev - I have a couple of sets of GLS - though I've asked Martin from Coastal Craft to send me a couple to see how they compare.

.........and nothing broken;)

 

On 3/10/2017 at 1:21 AM, GrzeM said:

Very interesting thread and great build.

Would the RAF Rescue Boat hull be accurate also for Polish S2? I always wanted to do one of those (S2 or S3). These were named Wilczur and Wyżeł (German Shepherd and Pointer).

 

Grze M, I think all the photo evidence suggests that MGB 40 is Very similar if not identical to MGB 44 which became S2.  There is a well known photo showing S2 and S3 against MGB 42 at Ramsgate which confirms the common design.   They shared a common hull with the British Power boat hulls used for the Air sea rescue boat.

 

I've rounded off the turret fairing and attached it to the coach house.

 

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Filler and Filing have been the order of the day.

 

These boats had no anchor winches so more filing forward

 

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I constructed the rear deck rails and added the 20mm Oerlikon foot anti-slips

 

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It's slow old progress at the moment, Thanks for looking in.

 

Rob

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10 hours ago, robgizlu said:

.........and nothing broken;)

 

Glad of that ....

 

Steady progress going on, it's all the little details that take the time with little to show.

 

Is that a Shapeways 20mm? How do you rate it. Seen on another forum that the barrels tend to droop :winkgrin:

 

Kev

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Nice! The Airfix kit is a good starting point as it's pretty damn nice for it's age. I built one, with a bit of embellishment and am still fond of it.

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On 28.03.2017 at 9:55 PM, robgizlu said:

Grze M, I think all the photo evidence suggests that MGB 40 is Very similar if not identical to MGB 44 which became S2.  There is a well known photo showing S2 and S3 against MGB 42 at Ramsgate which confirms the common design.   They shared a common hull with the British Power boat hulls used for the Air sea rescue boat.

Thank you! Thisi is what I wanted to know.

 

Your build is even more impressive now!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/29/2017 at 7:50 AM, longshanks said:

Is that a Shapeways 20mm? How do you rate it. Seen on another forum that the barrels tend to droop :winkgrin:

 

Kev

 

 

Kev - it is a Shapeways offering from Mark Hawkins - his web link is on the Corvette thread.  It hasn't drooped yet and in truth seems less likely to than the Coastal Craft 20mm.  

Here's a comparison

 

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I haven't made this easy as the translucent finish hides detail on the Shapeways offering.  They are virtually identical in size and in truth the magazine is done better on Mark Hawkins - it was offset in reality and it's hard to capture this on the slightly undersized Coastal Craft version.  The etch sight with CC does set it off nicely and I like the Wood base.  I'll paint both up for a play off.

 

On 3/29/2017 at 0:21 PM, seadog said:

Nice! The Airfix kit is a good starting point as it's pretty damn nice for it's age. I built one, with a bit of embellishment and am still fond of it.

 

Seadog - Couldn't agree more - for it's time it was quite remarkable.  It would be excellent to see yours.  I'm going to build RAF 122 at some stage.  

Here's one I did a couple of years ago, before having worked out to do the toe rails and turret railwork!  I was pleased with the rigging at the time:huh:

DSCF4571_zps5619b481.jpg

 

 

On 3/29/2017 at 10:56 PM, paul178 said:

Barrel droop? Any one making Viagra for plastic?

robgizlu this is a cracking build and I have been following it intently from the start

 

 

Thanks Paul - No Viagra needed!!

 

On 4/1/2017 at 9:27 PM, GrzeM said:

Thank you! Thisi is what I wanted to know.

 

Your build is even more impressive now!

 

Thanks - Looking forward to seeing S2 and S3!

 

it's time to fit out and that's where Coastal Craft make life a whole lot easier....

 

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The Mushroom ventilators and cleats work really well and that necessary little bit of detail

 

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The open bridge area is fitted out

 

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And rubbing rails added...

 

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The handrails are scratched from round rod styrene and are probably a tad high - I removed the aft rails off the coach house and redid them but I couldn't bring myself to remove these

 

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And so with a full days work today - the first for ages I've managed to get the aft  gun guard rail done, first "setting" it with Super glue then soldering with paste for strength.

The ammunition locers fore and aft were done and the CC 20mm Oerlikon built.  The Airfix props were cleaned up (a labour of love!) and the rudder attached - unlike the ASR craft there were only 2 engines and shafts so the middle was filled and sanded 

 

DSCF7793_zpsl4exzury.jpg

 

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The Clutter is beginning to make it look original

 

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The mast was made from the original kit version much sanded with a metal crosstree to support the rigging.

At long last I come to painting.  This hull build probably started some 2 or 3 yrs ago :think:

 

As ever thanks for looking (and commiserations to any Leicester Tiger fans out there;))

Rob

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  • 4 months later...

Well this is my first post since the Photobucket debacle.  I wonder which image hosting service will be the next to go.  I tried to log onto Flickr but it refused to accept my email address and seemingly wanted me to use a Yahoo account.  So I've tried Village photos.  Here goes........................this build got a little dropped with the Fairmile B barging it's way in

 

ad9ef43f-3f66-4629-9516-0573a8ffdc61.jpg

 

And Village photos works without bother - so Good!

Ammo one Shot Primer......

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And lots of masking:worry:

 

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The B15 is AKAN.  I've deliberated long and hard about G45 being a fawnish hemp colour and read with interest Jaimie at Sovereign Models with his revisionist thinking about B5 and B15 being the same colour. Hhe also feels that "G45" might just well have been an alternative late war designation for 507 C.

Colour photo evidence is very meagre.  There was a fabulous shot on the Coastal Forces veteran site Coastal Forces Veterans showing  a bw shot of British Power Boat Co 460 which unequivocally shows the hull in light 507C -ish grey.  This pic is not so good....

 

22ce9810-8991-496a-ade3-66a6d2d81e76.jpg

 

The only other coast Forces colour pic I have access to is this well known one of Fairmile Dog boats.  A miscellany of shades but none obviously hemp which really doesn't prove an awful lot...

 

c29ea8e9-d9fa-4776-88d2-3e82f37a06f8.jpg

 

But certainly no hemp shades!  Why would the navy have chosen a hemp colour as distinct from a pure bluey grey shade???

To further clinch my decision..........the Coastal Craft decals in "G45" are in fact far closer to 507C light grey.  Henceforth unless someone can find me some hard photographic evidence I choose to interpret G45 as a grey shade most likely IMO 507C or something very similar. 

The AKAN shade is very light and I stumbled across this Meng colour quite by accident which is bluer than the AKAN offering and much closer to the shade of the decals

 

8d0d1aa3-1f32-48ef-a04d-8489227adcfe.jpg

 

Not quite a perfect match but I'll live with it:penguin:

It's nice to be back posting.....

 

832e742c-9b0b-4d45-b212-f1ae405233ba.jpg

 

Thanks for looking

Rob

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Crikey, thought you'd dropped off the planet ..........

 

Good to see you back at the bench, some lovely work here.

 

:hmmm: G45 totally agree with you, just looks wrong............. but

 

below is a pic of a Fairmile D which has been around for many years on the R/C circuit built by a lovely gent called Roy Skeates. The detail is truly amazing. Anyways getting to the point I was chatting to him one day and he mention that all the details on his boat were confirmed by her Skipper.

 

P6172748

and I still thin it looks wrong :hypnotised:

 

Kev

Edited by longshanks
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22 minutes ago, longshanks said:

Crikey, thought you'd dropped off the planet ..........

 

Good to see you back at the bench, some lovely work here.

 

:hmmm: G45 totally agree with you, just looks wrong............. but

 

below is a pic of a Fairmile D which has been around for many years on the R/C circuit built by a lovely gent called Roy Skeates. The detail is truly amazing. Anyways getting to the point I was chatting to him one day and he mention that all the details on his boat were confirmed by her Skipper.

 

P6172748

and I still thin it looks wrong :hypnotised:

 

Kev

Good Lord - That's almost G20 Medium green grey.  Nice looking model.  I just can't believe that if THIS IS G45 it would have been thought suitable disruptive camouflage for the English channel.  

 

And yes Kev - it seems like I've been away for a while.  Normal service I hope will resume forthwith;)

 

Rob

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Great to see you cracking on with this build Rob looks so much better with the colors you have gone for

Think that is more or less the same type of scheme I need to go for with 466 when I get my finger out that is  ;)

 

beefy

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On 8/15/2017 at 11:28 PM, robgizlu said:

I've deliberated long and hard about G45 being a fawnish hemp colour and read with interest Jaimie at Sovereign Models with his revisionist thinking about B5 and B15 being the same colour. Hhe also feels that "G45" might just well have been an alternative late war designation for 507 C.

Colour photo evidence is very meagre.  There was a fabulous shot on the Coastal Forces veteran site Coastal Forces Veterans showing  a bw shot of British Power Boat Co 460 which unequivocally shows the hull in light 507C -ish grey.  This pic is not so good....

 

 

 

c29ea8e9-d9fa-4776-88d2-3e82f37a06f8.jpg

 

But certainly no hemp shades!  Why would the navy have chosen a hemp colour as distinct from a pure bluey grey shade???

To further clinch my decision..........the Coastal Craft decals in "G45" are in fact far closer to 507C light grey.  Henceforth unless someone can find me some hard photographic evidence I choose to interpret G45 as a grey shade most likely IMO 507C or something very similar. 

 

Thanks for looking

Rob

 

Hi Rob, with respect to G45 and 507C, it's more than a feeling (don't sing it) ...

 

If it makes you feel more confident in what you have done then I submit the following:

 

The B&G series paints were properly rolled out in CB3098 "The Camouflage of Ships at Sea" in May 1943. There's an original copy at Portsmouth and I have a WEM reprint here in front of me. Page 32 Table 5 lists paint chips. They're Snyder and Short chips in the repro copy I have but the text is exactly as per the original. 3 columns entitled "Name", "Colour and Reflection Factor" and "Corresponding Shade in Former Series" contain the following entry:

G45 - Grey. 45 per cent - Shade of Admiralty Pattern 507C paint.

 

Again in CB3098 under sub heading "Designs for Emergency Use: Camouflage without Pattern" on page 36 part f) states:

Equivalents of Shades G.10, G.20 and G.45 for these Emergency designs may be obtained by using Admiralty Pattern 507 paints as follows:-

for G.10, use Dark Grey Admiralty Pattern 507A

for G.20, use a mixture of equal parts Light Grey Admiralty Pattern 507C, and Dark Grey Admiralty Pattern 507A.

for G.45, use Light Grey Admiralty Pattern 507C.

 

The observant will have noted that 507B doesn't feature there, and certainly not as an intermediate shade that could stand in for G20. Incidently, the Light Reflectance Value of Alan Raven / Snyder & Short's 507B "Medium Grey" is 19% so if that weren't wrong it would be listed there - but it is wrong because as I've written elsewhere other documents clearly describe 507B and 507A as being the same shade but with or without dark grey enamel for durability. The only time 507A and 507B are listed for use at the same time that I've seen is in 1950 when they're both described as "Dark Grey, Home Fleet Shade" and prescribed for use on other than weatherworks and weatherworks respectively.

 

Secondly, you'll note that 50/50 of 507A and 507C gives a blue grey of roughly 20% LRV, which looks a lot like what CB3098 wants you to make from ship's stores if you can't get the olive green G.20. The tone is about correct at about 20%LRV but the shade is miles off. Does that undermine the assertion that G45 is the same shade as 507C? No, but in isolation it does reduce confidence. Luckily, that's not my whole argument.

 

The Admiralty published a full set of mixing formulae / recipes for the B&G series. For G45, the pigments/oil pastes to make 1cwt of paint are 50lbs of white lead oil paste pattern 409, 28lbs of zinc oxide white oil paste pattern 104 and 7lbs (that's one standard can of this stuff) blue-black paste pattern 371. Obviously, that gives a light blue grey, not coffee colour.

 

But wait - I'm not done yet. The B & G series were announced first to the fleet in Admiralty Fleet Order 2106/43 in April 1943. They announced different glossiness available in Type A1 and Type A2 versions of the paints (don't dwell on that - it's not important). What is important is the following specific wording in that AFO:

Paints of the A.1 and A.2 type have not yet been established under Admiralty pattern numbers. Since, however, the A.2 type paints have the same gloss as Admiralty pattern 507 paints, A.2/G.10 and A.2/G.45 are in fact the same as Admiralty Pattern 507A and 507C paints respectively.

 

 

Overall I think the evidence speaks for itself - G45 and 507C were the same colour renamed in accordance with its nature and light reflectance value which in late 1942 / early 1943 was considered to be the most important aspect in designing effective disruptive pattern camouflage, much more so than the exact shade. By renaming it "G45" anyone could see where it should fit in with a camouflage pattern in conjunction with other paints named in a similar fashion.

 

Incidently, in AD.29 published from the testing group at Teddington in late 1942, the light grey sample cards they tested and measured with a spectrometer gave readings which are light bluish grey with a LRV in the mid 40% range. They called it B.45 in the report owing to its bluish nature but between then and the roll out in AFO 2106/43 it had been renamed G45. In hindsight, few would look at a swatch of 507C and say it was blue rather than grey, so it seems the name was tweaked in the interest of common sense and to avoid confusion prior to roll out.

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