cathasatail Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Hi all, me again! Well, the postman dropped this wonderful kit off last week: The tooling looks excellent: (and so does this chap): Anyway, my aim is simple*- convert this Phantom F4J into an RAF grey/green FGR.2 F-4J(UK) *Simple, meaning a process that requires a metric crap-tonne of work.... - The main points to be aware of are threefold: 1. Decals 2. Shape of the tail 3. Shape of the engine exhasuts As of a few moments ago, I ordered a set of decals from Hannants to partly solve problem 1 (stencils will need to be scraped together from the spare decals box) And as for the other 2 issues, I can solve the shape of the tail by using scrap plasticard to replicate the rectangular shaped fairing at the top of the FGR.2's tail and for 3.... well I'm not sure about that. I could try and see if I have any spare nozzles or cylindrical shaped objects from other kits lying around or I could find a 1:48 bomb of the right diameter and cut that into sections to be shaped into the nozzles? I was tempted to go for the aftermarket resin nozzles that are available but at £10 for a comparatively small item is a bit much. So, that's it for now. Kind regards, Sam EDIT: Changed from F-4J to FGR2 to --> F-4J to F-4J(UK) Edited February 20, 2017 by cathasatail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wamwig Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Hmmmm why not make it as an RAF F-4J(UK) and then wait for the Airfix FG.1 later this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Sam, not to bring you down, but the FGR.2 has a completely different rear fuselage to the F-4J, due to the much larger Rolls Royce Spey engines that were installed in place of the original J79s. The intakes were (as I recall), some 20% larger in area to allow for the greater airflow - this led to massive changes in the shape of the airframe behind, and the size of the tailpipes, as well (Much larger than the J79 versions). The change is a lot more complex than just adding a bit to the tail and changing the exhausts and decals. You CAN, however, use the kit as the basis of a UK-operated F-4J(UK), as used by 74Sqn. No doubt someone will be along to fill in what will need to be done. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. If you're set on an FGR.2, then Hasegawa and Fujimi do nice kits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Hi Sam, I hope you know what's entailed with an FGR.2 conversion. Most of the centre section is different to allow for the wider air intakes and the deeper fuselage for the engines. It's a bit more than just nozzles shape. Some of the other details are different to standard F-4s, but unsure from the J. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 All posted at the same time there, but would definitely go with the suggestions of waiting for the upcoming AIrfix kit to come along, or source the Fujimi one if you are in a rush. Making your kit into an RAF F-4J(UK) is a good idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathasatail Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Ah bugger..... :\ Damn. Thanks for making me aware of this- I hereby switch the build to an F-4J --> F-4J(UK) On a side note, was there ever an occasion where an F-4J(UK) was seen in green/grey camo? If not, perhaps a "what-if" might be in order. Kind regards, Sam Edited February 20, 2017 by cathasatail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 IMHO switching to the F-4J(UK) is a wise decision, the modifications are way more limited and with Airfix issuing a Spey engined Phantom in the next few months you'll soon be able to buy a modern kit of this variant from your closest model shop. Unfortunately no J(UK) ever carried the green/grey camouflage, they were delivered in the 3 grey scheme and retained this scheme until the end.. but check details of the different US and UK paints used on these aircrafts in the pinned thread in the cold war section ! The J can lead to a slightly different RAF grey Phantom. And they carried black tails, that IMHO always look good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Coombs Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I don't know about any F-4J (UK)s in grey/green (RAF fighters had gone grey by then), but do remember the grey aircraft having a strange greenish cast to begin with - apparently due to the primer used underneath the top coat. There's another thread on Britmodeller covering the colours used and how they appeared: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/35997-f-4j-uk-phantom/ . Check your photographic references to get the right colours for the right timeframe. Hope this helps. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathasatail Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Ok, thanks again guys for your invaluable help! The only issue I would have at the moment is the decals I have ordered from hannants: (they are naturally, not for F-4J(UK)'s I don't enter my models for competitions and I personally model as a break from schoolwork as well as indulging in some cold war/RAF history. So, with that- my current train of thought is to build it as an F-4J(UK) but consider using these decals as a "what-if" build. How does that sound? Sam Edited February 20, 2017 by cathasatail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 The F-4J (UK) was operated by 74 squadron only. Externally you will need the radar sensors on the intake shoulders, low viz markings and forget the stencils. Don't forget our Walkaround section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Check the antenna fairing on the fin top trailing edge too. IIRC there were one or two variations and at least one jet didn't have one at all. ZE360 at least had the periscope in the inter-canopy arch on the port side: I suspect that most, if not all, had this piece of kit by the time they were withdrawn or written off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 With the decals you have brought and using the camo scheme, you could do a 'what if' RAF Germany Phantom squadrons (ie 19 & 92 sqn) received F-4Js, and during the mid to late 1970s. It is a stretch, but that's what WIfs are for! In fact you could go for the combination of the camo finish with blue tail! BTW, F-4J(UK)s never got the modified fin top (as per the FGR.2) with the RWR, so I wouldn't worry about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathasatail Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, 71chally said: With the decals you have brought and using the camo scheme, you could do a 'what if' RAF Germany Phantom squadrons (ie 19 & 92 sqn) received F-4Js, and during the mid to late 1970s. It is a stretch, but that's what WIfs are for! In fact you could go for the combination of the camo finish with blue tail! BTW, F-4J(UK)s never got the modified fin top (as per the FGR.2) with the RWR, so I wouldn't worry about that. Thanks for the reply, so the current plan is: RAF Germany F-4J(UK) in Grey/Green camo. -No modifications to the engines and no modifications to the tail. Sounds good Sam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathasatail Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Progress! Small steps, but I've been working on the cockpit: Kind regards, Sam 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Hello Sam! This is very interesting and I'm keen to watch your progress. I am also planning a F-4J(UK) "What If" myself; I'm fighting working on the Tamiya 1/32 scale F-4J. No. 74 Squadron decals and proper stencils seem pretty hard to find for a 1/32 scale Phantom. Best Regards, Antti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathasatail Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Antti_K said: Hello Sam! This is very interesting and I'm keen to watch your progress. I am also planning a F-4J(UK) "What If" myself; I'm fighting working on the Tamiya 1/32 scale F-4J. No. 74 Squadron decals and proper stencils seem pretty hard to find for a 1/32 scale Phantom. Best Regards, Antti I'm afraid that I can only sympathise, I had a quick look and all I could find were the YellowHammer Models decals for 74 sqn Tiger Meet but I couldn't find them selling anywhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 It is quite hard to decide on a "What If" scheme. I like the three tone gray camouflage but then... Some very colourful DSG/DG/LAG schemes come to mind. Let's see BR, Antti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyguy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Can anybody with knowledge of this kit please advise if it includes the intake mounted Radar Warning receivers as carried by the 74 Squadron jets? Cheers Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dragon Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, jyguy said: Can anybody with knowledge of this kit please advise if it includes the intake mounted Radar Warning receivers as carried by the 74 Squadron jets? Cheers Guy Yes the kit has them. Regards, Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyguy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Many thanks,Phil that was a lightning fast response.I've been looking for an age at some sprue photos on line and was getting double vision trying to spot the parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dragon Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, jyguy said: Many thanks,Phil that was a lightning fast response.I've been looking for an age at some sprue photos on line and was getting double vision trying to spot the parts! If I am correct they are parts E27/28. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyguy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Magic thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Cathasatail:this is where I get shot down! Our hobby is about enjoyment and if your enjoyment is about getting a micrometre on every single measurement and checking it for accuracy or getting the exact shade of paint for everything (don't get me started on scale colour/fading in service/staining with fuel etc) or if you go down the "if it looks right that'll do me" route it's totally up to you. I have over 170 1/72 Phantoms - all reaonably accurate and well made but none to competition standard. If you want to use your F-4J for an FGR-2, then modify the afterburner cans becasue they are very different, add the periscope on the port side window between the canopies and check the slats on the tail planes ( I can never remember what does and does not have them). Use your decals to do either of the 19 squadron a/c; put the model on the shelf and I'll put money on nobody (except you) knowing it's not quite right. As for using the new Airfix FG1 to make an FGR2 - well, they too are different a/c in a number of aspects. I have taken the tin hat out of it's box but - as a generalisation which is not directed at anybody - a hobby should be about relaxing and developing oneself personally and there are times when some take ours to too serious a point. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 37 minutes ago, jyguy said: Can anybody with knowledge of this kit please advise if it includes the intake mounted Radar Warning receivers as carried by the 74 Squadron jets? Cheers Guy But they were empty (and I think one of the J's didn't have them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathasatail Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, iainpeden said: Cathasatail:this is where I get shot down! Our hobby is about enjoyment and if your enjoyment is about getting a micrometre on every single measurement and checking it for accuracy or getting the exact shade of paint for everything (don't get me started on scale colour/fading in service/staining with fuel etc) or if you go down the "if it looks right that'll do me" route it's totally up to you. I have over 170 1/72 Phantoms - all reaonably accurate and well made but none to competition standard. If you want to use your F-4J for an FGR-2, then modify the afterburner cans becasue they are very different, add the periscope on the port side window between the canopies and check the slats on the tail planes ( I can never remember what does and does not have them). Use your decals to do either of the 19 squadron a/c; put the model on the shelf and I'll put money on nobody (except you) knowing it's not quite right. As for using the new Airfix FG1 to make an FGR2 - well, they too are different a/c in a number of aspects. I have taken the tin hat out of it's box but - as a generalisation which is not directed at anybody - a hobby should be about relaxing and developing oneself personally and there are times when some take ours to too serious a point. If I was in the House of Commons, I would wave my order papers and cry "Hear hear!" I couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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