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Westland Scout 1/48 kit mangle/scratch/trash/bash


hendie

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9 hours ago, hendie said:

In case you are wondering, I have the Elegoo Mars as does Tony ( @TheBaron ) and can wholeheartedly recommend it.  I am constantly amazed by the output of this entry level machine.

That's the model i was looking at.  Results are pretty impressive for a straight out of the printer with no clean up yet

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Beautiful, beautiful work on the engine in particular Alan 👏 The Elgoo still knocks me out being able to do stuff down to wafer thicknesses and in this case  a perfect example of how it displays your attention to detail.

(You don't need me to tell you to be real careful of the lips of those exhausts, so easy to take a nick out of them accidentally like I did on the trailing edge of the  Vixen wing at that thickeness.)

11 hours ago, hendie said:

I may even get working on that Scout in the next week or two

At first scan read, this as 'working Scout' and thought: 'Frankly not surprised he'd have actually printed a working engine'.....

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Very impressive engine there Alan, and the Aztec temples look pretty good too!

What % IPA do you use? I've tried to get some here but the pharmacy only has 70%, I was thinking I'll be needing at least 90%?

 

Ian

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8 minutes ago, limeypilot said:

What % IPA do you use?

 

I use 91% as my regular cleaning agent Ian though I may have to resort to 70% as that's the only remaining bottle in the house.  I normally do a two stage cleaning with Simple Green as stage 1 to get the worst of the gunk off, then into the IPA for stage 2. 

 

I've also had good results with an ultrasonic bath using plain old water and just a few drops of washing up liquid -(again, after the Simple Green bath) it can take a few cycles though

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On 5/7/2020 at 10:40 PM, hendie said:

 

 

 

 

I think this might be my most challenging print job yet

 

 

The new breed of resin printers are streets ahead of the old FDM printers. Prices have dropped drastically in the last year and are (IMO) realistically priced.

Here's a couple of wine glasses I printed last week or so

 

P4250013.jpg

 

and if you are wondering what size they are.... here's some 1:1 fingers as reference

 

P4250011.jpg

 

 

Bill, on all the photo's I've examined, the pipes are tapered on a top view, but look uniform on a side view. I've messed about with them as best I can and I think I have them close enough now.

 

 

the resin arrived so it won't be long now

 

 

The gearbox I can do easily in one piece. The engine is another matter.  I may try and print it as one just to see what happens.  I'mexpecting to lose some detail, but just how much remains to be seen.  Clean up is going to be a pig though

 

 

Mucho thanks - very helpful

 

 

There's something rewarding in taking these old kits and seeing just what can be done with them.  I loved the old Hawk Lysander build.

 

Anyways, further CADinations are up.  Main rotor gearbox, finished now I think

 

 

MRGB.png

 

As is the engine.  I know there's more stuff bunged in on the top end but I can't find any decent photo's showing the gubbins stuffed in there.

 

 

Nimbus-4-View.png

 

A shot up the rear just for Ced.

 

Capture.png

 

Then MRGB and engine together

 

 

Full-Assy.png

 

I'm not entirely sure what the height above the platform is so there may be some filing or sticking on bits to get the height right but I won't know until  I have these in my hands.

I may also have a go at printing the main rotor shaft as the kit part isn't up to much there either.

 

Must be about time to go and work on that train again

 

 

 

Blimey, you aren't just making a model, you're designing one!

 

Watching with interest :D

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H, don't they use IPA in windscreenshield washer fluid over there? I use the stuff (neat) to clean acrylic paint from brushes. Not as good as neat IPA, but lots cheaper.

Lovely engine and gearbox.

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thanks folks.  I managed to snaffle a bottle of 70% from the wife's stash which will help in the interim until I can lay me hands on some of the good stuff.

 

While working on Pegasus stuff I managed to steal some time on the Scout too.  

A quick check of the engine/gearbox combo reveals that the engine may be a tad too long.   I created this engine based on dimensions I found in a Westland document online then scaled it by 1/48, so it could be that the kit is slightly off scale.  I'll look into that more later.  Most photos show that the exhaust doesn't extend much past the transmission deck while this shows it extending a good 3 or 4 millimetres 

 

P5100001.jpg

 

As Tony so rightly  pointed out, when you make things as thin as a thin thing, they become very delicate.  This damage happened while in the ultrasonic bath for clean up.

I started filing it but even more fragments broke off though with some care, I have it once and even now.  I think I need to lose a millimetre or two off the overall length, so I may modify and reprint with thicker edges on the exhaust, but it will be a while before I get to that point.

 

P5100008.jpg

 

Since this kit is supposedly a Wasp, there's quite a few modifications required to make it resemble a Scout.  Come to think of it, there's still a few required to make it resemble a Wasp too.

A horrible lump on the transmission deck was removed and the resultant hole filled in.  We're off to a good start then.

 

P5100003.jpg

 

However, the panel at the rear of the cabin is a bit off and missing a few features, so I copped a bit out of the panel and forgot to take a photo but it's going to be replaced with this part.

Yes folks, I'm actually scratch building bits and not simply printing them this time.

 

P5100004.jpg

 

Once a few more bits of plastic are stuck in place and some shaping and sanding done, it starts to look like the real panel 'ish.

 

P5100005.jpg

 

Inside the cabin looks fine so far.  Should scrub up nicely with some primer

 

P5100007.jpg

 

Once I had the shapes I was after, the top of the panel was bent to replicate the curve of the real panel and not the sharp transition as defined on the kit part, then glued in place.

 

P5110010.jpg

 

I mentioned something about a few modifications required to make it resemble a Scout didn't I?   This shape doesn't look right

 

P5110011.jpg

 

So off with it I say.  A little bit of butchery never hurt anyone did it?

 

P5110012.jpg

 

It wasn't an easy part to excise being such a complex shape.  I wanted to  retain as much of the structure as I could to provide a skeleton framework to rebuild the structure from.

A combination of scribers and saws were used to make the necessary surgical cuts. The operation was a success.

but the patient will never fly again.

 

P5110013.jpg

 

Some infills were glued and clamped in place - trying to end up with the minimum of filler if at all possible.

Then while taking this shot, I realized that those bumps at the front of the fuselage don't belong on the Scout either - more surgery required.

I wasn't sure I wanted to  glue the fuselage together at this point but there's so much work involved in reshaping the underside I really had no choice - I did check that I can still fit the floor with the fuselage together though!

 

P5110015.jpg

 

To fill the large gaping hole on the fuselage is going to  require filler and a LOT of sanding and shaping.  The kit plastic is very hard so I thought it prudent to use a piece of kit runner to form the main backbone of the repair work.   

 

 P5120017.jpg

 

Check alignment... often

 

P5120018.jpg

 

There's a lot of very fine detail on the kit - some very nice riveting although I don't believe they are very noticeable on the 1:1.  Sadly I'm going to lose a lot of that detail due to the amount of sanding required to get this thing into shape. Once I have it back resembling a Scout, a lot of that detail is going to be difficult to reproduce.  That's modeling though innit?

 

While I was at this butchery malarkey I spotted a few bits missing from the kit - namely holes of one sort or another.   The small on just behind the bump on the door is for a foot hold, while the trapezoidal shaped hole is a recess with a couple of filler caps located within it. Fuel filler maybe?

 

P5120019.jpg

 

 

That has all been left to fully cure now before I get into  yet more butchery.  Maybe those curtains are dry now and I can go hang them in the train?

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, hendie said:

it could be that the kit is slightly off scale. 

Scalemates says it's 1/50th.

 

38 minutes ago, hendie said:

Yes folks, I'm actually scratch building bits and not simply printing them this time

You rebel!

Old school modelling. Whatever next?

 

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1 hour ago, hendie said:

A horrible lump on the transmission deck was removed and the resultant hole filled in.  We're off to a good start then.

 

P5100003.jpg

 

While I was at this butchery malarkey I spotted a few bits missing from the kit - namely holes of one sort or another.   The small on just behind the bump on the door is for a foot hold, while the trapezoidal shaped hole is a recess with a couple of filler caps located within it. Fuel filler maybe?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P5120019.jpg

Nice work so far.  One of the reasons I'm waiting for my former colleagues at Rotary Wing Handling Squadron to send me extracts from the aircrew manual is to see exactly what is going on on the engine/transmission deck.  As far as I can tell from the few limited photos taken at that angle, there's a shallow well in there underneath the TRDS but I can't be certain.  Whatever happens I'm not looking forward to removing and replacing it now that I have stuck the deck down!

 

That trapezoidal hole certainly looks like fuel pressure filler caps.  As far as I am aware, the Wasp had gravity refuel only and the filler cap was on top of the engine/transmission deck at the forward stbd corner.  

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3 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Whatever happens I'm not looking forward to removing and replacing it now that I have stuck the deck down!

That's just one of the reasons I'm leaving that until after decaling on mine!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

OOhhh blimey. It's been a while since I've been through these doors isn't it?

 

You will probably be very surprised to hear that I have actually been doing some fettling on this over the last week or two.  Nothing major, but fettling nonetheless.  I have the printer going full steam ahead printing Wapiti parts so while that was chugging away...

 

This build hit a wall when I had to reshape the underside and remove those nasty nasty seafaring lumps to get rid of the Waspness and start transforming it into a real aircraft. 

I had used plastic filler and it wasn't really working out so this was put on the shelf and I got on with other things, but my recent experience with milliput and the success I had on the Whirlwind tail section prompted me to try again. It worked. (of course, completely forgot to take any photos so you'll just have to believe me)

 

Following the success of the belly bloating I went for something simple to get me back in to the way of things.  That's really just an excuse to avoid saying that I had completely forgot where I was with this build and what my plans were.  The center console seemed an easy target.

 

P9120001.jpg

 

I've also bookmarked @Chewbacca's wonderful Wasp thread as it provided many useful details that I would not otherwise have come across.

 

One of the things I'm not too keen on with this kit is the fact that you have to fit the glassware very early on.  Transparencies are my Nemesis and I've come to cringe every time I have to go near one.  With this build, those clear bits have to go on pretty much at the start because you can't fit anything or paint anything without them in place.

 

Hey ho. On we go.

I used my favorite diluted PVA method to stick 'em in

 

P9120002.jpg

 

The glassware isn't that great to start with and the fit is definitely a bit iffy, but I'm not going to fret too much over it.  Despite how these look, they cleaned up reasonably well.

Well, better than how they look here.

 

P9120003.jpg

 

With the front see-throughs in place I could get the floor glued into position, followed by the rear bulkhead.  Note the transmission deck off to the side - a read through Chewbacca's thread reminded me of his discovery that there is a well in the middle of the deck and not flat as I previously  believed, and as Fujimi would have you model it. That lead me to dog out my previous work and replace it with a lowered section.

 

P9120004.jpg

 

Getting all excited at the progress I thought I could attempt something a little bit more difficult. Rain channels to be precise.  There's nothing on the kit to represent the very noticeable rain channels.  Thinking about it was a lot easier than doing it.  I searched though all the scraps and spares and couldn't find anything suitable so it was back to the old fallback - wire.

I used masking tape to mark out where the rain channel terminated, that's be the corner where the two strips of tape cross over, then drilled a 0.4 mm hole at those two locations. SS wire was then bent to shape and pushed through the holes, then secured in place. It was that easy. 

No it wasn't :D.  It took a good half dozen attempts to get the bends in the wire at the right place so they would fit through the holes and give me a good approximation of the real thing :phew:

Eventually...

 

P9120005.jpg

 

Then the wire was filed down a tad to have that flattened look on top.  In this shot it looks like there's a slight gap under the wire - I checked and there isn't - that's the remnants of black paint making it look like a shadow.  I also scribed in the nose panel and if I remember later I'll add the fasteners too. Hinges will go on later as they're bound to get obliterated between now and paint.

 

P9130006.jpg

 

There's a little bit of greebling that can be accomplished prior to turning it into a greenhouse so a few holes were cut, and some paneling added.

All of which then had to be revised later.

 

P9140009.jpg

 

More wires, sorry, rain strips around the nose. If you look dead on the nose they are slightly asymmetrical - I made the rookie mistake of using the rivet lines on the kit as a guide, only to notice after I had done this that the kit detail wasn't symmetrical.  :wall:

I should mention that for these strips I scribed a Vee groove into the plastic to give the wire a channel to lay in, which also (planned of course!) made them not quite so proud of the fuselage as the rain guide on top of the nose.  

 

P9140012.jpg

 

I still haven't decided whether to file them flat or not, but there's plenty of time before I need to commit to that.

A more pressing issue was the fact that the transmission deck did not fit as nicely as it should.  I put this down to my lack of forethought and using so much plastic filler.  I think all that filler had the effect of warping the sides in slightly, thus preventing the deck from sitting down in its nest.

Easy remedy - glue in two sections of big thick runner

 

P9130008.jpg

 

... which can then be shimmed out when cured in order to get the fuselage sides to flex outwards and allow the transmission deck to fall into place.

 

P9140011.jpg

 

Like so

 

P9140014.jpg

 

After gazing at this for some time I came to really dislike the holes I had cut for the steps just aft of the cabin, so while I was loading up another batch of Wapiti bits I threw in a couple of step plates.  I could then enlarge the nasty holes and plug them with these nice little steps. Much nicer.

 

P9140013.jpg

 

Another miss by Fujimi, and it may not be a miss, but certainly for the Scout (not sure about the Wasp) there were a couple of fluted ribs missing between the mina body and the tail.

For this I used 0.6mm rod, and as with the rain guides, I first scribed a small channel as a guide, then used a Vee shaped scribing tool to deepen the groove and allow the rod to sit in the slot.  It was at this point that I realized I had made the inset compartment in that area too deep, so added a thicker section of styrene on the lower "shelf" to provide some area between the fluted rib and the compartment.

 

P9150015.jpg

 

Now I may have already mentioned that canopies/transparencies/clear bits are my nemesis. I say that because well, they're my nemesis.   This build is going to prove no different.

Exhibit A: Big glass dome fitted on top.  It sort of fits on this side if I press down really hard. Well, some of it sort of fits. The rear quarter is off doing its own thing.  And don't even look at the front join to the nose. Just don't!

 

P9150016.jpg

 

But taking a gander at t'other side proves just why I hate these things so much.  It's nowhere near a fit.  The only thing that fits at this point is me.  The rear quarter on this side doesn't even belong on this aircraft.

 

P9150017.jpg

 

That leaves me in a quandary. - And before anyone dares to suggest it - NO! I'm not making a plunge mold or vac-form for this one. I'm just not. Okay?

I think I can deal with some of this non-fitting-ness, though I'm almost certain I'm going to have to cut off the rear quarters and plunge mold those somehow.

 

I'm also tempted to remove the doors as most of 660 Sqn flew without the doors on.  That would give two benefits; 1, you could see inside, and 2, I don't need to worry about those door frames. Essentially, the canopy would fall where it falls, and without door frames, you wouldn't (shouldn't?) be able to tell that it's not in the right place.

Thoughts from the hive on that one? Doors or no doors?

 

While I'm losing sleep over that fun challenge, I had to greeble to calm myself down.

This greeble involved taking a piece of brass square tube, and filing the top half off to leave me with a 'U' channel which was then mitered on the front end, and the side walls removed on the back end, leaving just a tab.

 

P9150018.jpg

 

Which was duly fitted to the transmission deck to masquerade as a fuel filler/drain channel.  The plastic on this kit is like petrified wood.  The scriber barely makes an impression on it and even the chisels were having a hard time.  I had to use so much force to get anywhere I was in imminent danger of lancing myself

 

P9150019.jpg

 

There we are then. Temporarily back in action.  

I will try and pay a bit more attention to this build, but bits of Wapiti are calling at me and I've only a few more bits to print before I can (theoretically) start assembling it.

 

Dib Dib chaps. See you at the next campfire.

 

 

 

 

 

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Deceptively casual action packed update Alan.

 

6 hours ago, hendie said:

I threw in a couple of step plates.  I could then enlarge the nasty holes and plug them with these nice little steps. Much nicer.

 

It’s daft of me;  but that little detail - from concept to execution and given just throw away mention in the post - is just about my fav.  The use of the printer to make a neat and tidy little detail otherwise a PITA to achieve.  Excellent.

 

6 hours ago, hendie said:

I'm also tempted to remove the doors as most of 660 Sqn flew without the doors on.  That would give two benefits; 1, you could see inside, and 2, I don't need to worry about those door frames. Essentially, the canopy would fall where it falls, and without door frames, you wouldn't (shouldn't?) be able to tell that it's not in the right place.

Thoughts from the hive on that one? Doors or no doors?

 

 

Don’t really want to be the first head above the parapet on this one.  But…

 

Having googled and seen some chat on the PPruNE forum and some piccies of doorless Scouts I have to say that I really like the doors-off (front and back) look and it’d be a great way of showing off the hendiefied interior.  I’d go doors-off.

 

However.  I suspect that if you go that way not because really want to model the Scout with the doors off but solely to avoid the problem with the canopy/door frame fit (as to which there is no doubt a hendie-magic solution out there waiting to be discovered) then it’ll bug you.  Just saying…..

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/13/2017 at 3:21 PM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

I occasionally teeter on the edge of paying some stupid EvilBay price for this kit, since it is the only one around in my preferred scale.  Having seen it in its full (ahem) glory I think I might keep my fingers crossed that someone will eventually release a new version!

Hi Crisp, after the demise of Kitty Hawk, the helo brand. Maybe one of the Eastern European companies could be persuaded to get involved with saving sixties helo aviation?

I'm thinking IMC with their recently released Cobra and which apparently will be available in 48th sometime soon.

Colin

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48 minutes ago, heloman1 said:

Maybe one of the Eastern European companies could be persuaded to get involved with saving sixties helo aviation?

 

If it wasn't for the sheer size of that canopy, this would be an ideal kit for 3d printing.

If I ever get bored I might even have a go, now that I  (think) I have figured out the issues in vac forming

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You knew this was going to drag me out of the shadows didn't you?

 

You didn't?

 

Oh sorry but as ever I have a few ideas to chuck into the fray.This pocket sized piece of awesome perfectness-ish is probably higher up my list than the Whirly and my archived photo set is immense.

 

And my ideas about it even bigger, but of course I can easily be ignored.

 

:)

 

Let's look at the doors, no sod it let's not

 

image014.jpg

 

With lifting capacity only just better than a housewife with the shopping, dropping off the doors makes perfect sense both from the weight lifting category and the ability to look inside.

 

(been there- got it)

 

scout-05.jpg

 

(Not mine but does show the concept in gentleman's scale, forthwith)

 

Now the main portion of my message this day regards the engine deck which Airfix in their oddly unexpected way got right in tiny

 

The entire length of the deck has a central recess down the middle at least part of which's function is to allow the engine, gear boxes and brake mechanism to sit lower on top.  This drawing of Wasp shows the central trough even though it's a bit obscured

nimbus-zps712dda8d.jpg

 

I would calculate the recess at three inches deep, maybe four, full length of the deck.

 

In this view the main rotor gearbox and assorted pipery and bracketry can be seen inside the recess

westland-scout-ah1-xt626-29-of-54.jpg

 

The forward mount bracket can be seen on the deck of the recess along with pipes galore

 

The dark grey linkages are from the cyclic and collective and seem to have a certain effect on how (and in which direction) the Scout can fly

 

westland-scout-ah1-xt626-26-of-54.jpg

 

 

Oh  boy oh boy, we are going to have such fun with this build.

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2 hours ago, perdu said:

 

With lifting capacity only just better than a housewife with the shopping

My brother was REME and used to fix Scouts for 652 sqn.

If they fitted and fired the door mounted Gimpy the whole helicopter would go sideways.

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