EE Canberra - correcting the Airfix tailplane

[Paulaero]

On 11/02/2017 at 11:27, canberra kid said:

Again from a WB.57F but applicable to all B.57's, this is the plate added to the tail plain to "help" clean up the aerodynamics around the gap. I think the plate was deeper in it's origanel form(I may be wrong?) as it is in this photo is quite like the one on the English Electric item. 

John 

is that a deliberate typo - would like to join ….

[canberra kid]

None of my Typo's are deliberate, but I'm glad they raise a smile! Do you want to join the SIG? 

John

Edited November 18, 2019 by canberra kid
Typo

[Admiral Puff]

That's my eventual plan - haven't found anyone to cast it yet, but have a few ideas ...

 

(Sorry, this should have quoted James' last post to give it some relevance.)

[canberra kid]

I've had a stab at doing a simpleler fix for the tail plain issue, what I've done is field away the flat area on the top side of the tail plain stub, more to follow line of the top of the tail plains, this has the benefit of creating more fuselage between the bottom of the fin and the tail plains. The sketch below hopefully illustrates what I've done, the hatched area is what I've removed.

 

I don't know how well it shows on these photos. I've highlighted the before and after.

Before

 

After

 

Thoughts people? I'll try try tail plains in position tomorrow, to see how they look.

 

John

  

[72modeler]

Looks good so far, John! Couldn't find anything the bath or kitchen that could be used as a substitute? 😜

Mike

[canberra kid]

4 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Looks good so far, John! Couldn't find anything the bath or kitchen that could be used as a substitute? 😜

Mike

Thanks Mike, if we still had a bath and if we weren't now reduced to working by candlelight due to having no light fittings in the house, I may have found something useful 🙂 

John 

[Navy Bird]

3 hours ago, canberra kid said:

Thoughts people? I'll try try tail plains in position tomorrow, to see how they look.

 

I did something similar with my 1:72 PR.9. It fools most people.   

 

Cheers,

Bill

[canberra kid]

11 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

I did something similar with my 1:72 PR.9. It fools most people.   

 

Cheers,

Bill

ah, good one Bill, as they say, Grete minds copy of each other! 🙂 

 

John

[canberra kid]

A bit more work on the back end, it's very difficult to get a photo that shows the difference. 

 

John

 

[perdu]

Hi James I have been looking this over, but of course lots of the links died

 

I am wondering if anyone finally got the new tail on the market somewhere?

 

I intend making three tailplanes to use on my Airfix, Frog and Matchbox kits, crossed fingers would be appreciated.

[71chally]

Ayup Bill, I'm not sure anyone got around to producing the tailplane correction that I proposed, would be great in 3D print but beyond my knowledge and resource.

My picture links should still work, can you see those ok?

 

I think there has been other tailplane correction kits, perhaps by TwoMikes?  The Matchbox tailplane need further correction or replacement due to the root chord error  picked by John Aeroclub many moons back
@TeeELL has done some nice Canberra bits aswel.

 

 

 

PS, just a thought, I think I still have my prototype tailplane if anyone can produce something from it, in storage at the mo though.

[Steve McArthur]

7 hours ago, perdu said:

Hi James I have been looking this over, but of course lots of the links died

 

I am wondering if anyone finally got the new tail on the market somewhere?

 

I intend making three tailplanes to use on my Airfix, Frog and Matchbox kits, crossed fingers would be appreciated.

I'm only seeing dead links from @canberra kid on this page, maybe he could update them. Considering the 1/48 Airfix kit came out around 15 years ago most of the aftermarket created for it is long out of production. You can look at Scalemates for an idea of what might be out there for the different kits. Two Mikes (now Phase Hangar) used to do a resin tail correction, but they got out of resin cast parts and all current products are 3D printed.

[TeeELL]

I did suggest that I could have a go at producing the correction.  However, I understand from one of the early posts that the old Airfix B(I)6 doesn’t have the problem - that is the model I make my corrections/enhancements for so I have no need for any corrections for my model(s).

[canberra kid]

3 hours ago, Steve McArthur said:

I'm only seeing dead links from @canberra kid on this page, maybe he could update them. Considering the 1/48 Airfix kit came out around 15 years ago most of the aftermarket created for it is long out of production. You can look at Scalemates for an idea of what might be out there for the different kits. Two Mikes (now Phase Hangar) used to do a resin tail correction, but they got out of resin cast parts and all current products are 3D printed.

Hi Steve,

Sorry about the links, photo bucket did the dirty on me by starting to charge for hosting images and my web site went a similar way! If there is anything specific you would like to see let me know and I'll repost them.

 

John 

[Steve McArthur]

14 minutes ago, canberra kid said:

Hi Steve,

Sorry about the links, photo bucket did the dirty on me by starting to charge for hosting images and my web site went a similar way! If there is anything specific you would like to see let me know and I'll repost them.

 

John 

I'm good, I'm not even sure what's missing. I was just pinging you for the previous person that had noted dead links. I'm glad I never had anything at photobucket.

[perdu]

15 hours ago, TeeELL said:

I did suggest that I could have a go at producing the correction.  However, I understand from one of the early posts that the old Airfix B(I)6 doesn’t have the problem - that is the model I make my corrections/enhancements for so I have no need for any corrections for my model(s).

Actually Tony @TeeELL it is the old Airfix B(I)6 that has the most colossal version of the problem

 

I present my B(I)6 for your observation

 

I compare this with my Frog B(I)8  

Here one half taped to my B(I)6 to show length discrepancies too

 

 

The slightly darker grey of the Rovex model reveals a much more moderate version of the tailplane fairing which is hardly visible when the kit if built, although it could be better if 71challied*

 

Shown now for context, here is the Matchbox one too lined up for contrast

 

Its (the green one) tailplane is altogether wrong in several aspects and since all three can use/desperately need improvement I'd like to see a tailplane replacement piece which could be built as James's rebuild plan and used in each kit to bring the overall Canberra tail feathers into line.

 

Therefore I would love you to consider a full width Canberra tailplane unit as a future prospect for your 3D modelling skills

 

Going back to this image, I get the impression that the Frog Canberra has the 14" fuselage extension already applied, can you or @canberra kid confirm whether I'm right or not please Tony?

 

When you look a the taped together pieces you can see why I was able to buy my Airfix kit for 50p at a monthly club meeting back in the seventies cant you?

The fuselage and wings are distorted but capable of being reshaped 

[TeeELL]

Perdu,
  this thread is discussing the issue with the tailplanes is it not?  You have introduced the fin into the equation.  Bottom line, my skill set and the limitations of the particular 3D software I use would make my effort relatively rudimentary and in need of finishing off by the modeller (the Canberra vertical stabiliser is quite a complex shape) - that also assumes I have sufficient data to even begin a basic design, which I don’t- sorry.  I would need the profile (side elevation) plus the aerofoil sections through the fin at intervals etc, etc, etc.  Even with all that it would require time spent at the PC creating the fin/rudder - but I don’t think there are enough modellers wanting an ‘improved vertical stabiliser that requires hand finishing’ to justify my time spent and final unit cost!

  
As far as the FROG kit goes, in terms of dimensions, I cannot really advise, other than ‘my’ Canberra forward fuselage has to be printed 103.7% larger to match the fuselage diameter of the FROG kit.

[71chally]

16 hours ago, TeeELL said:

I did suggest that I could have a go at producing the correction.  However, I understand from one of the early posts that the old Airfix B(I)6 doesn’t have the problem - that is the model I make my corrections/enhancements for so I have no need for any corrections for my model(s).

The tailplane mod I've come up with is not only a correction for the horrible affair in the newer Airfix Canberra kits, but it is the only true representation of the Canberra tailplane for any of the so far released Canberra kits.  It's bugger to make from scratch so i get that many modellers won't want to go through the hassle, but as a resin or 3d insert it should be fairly easy modification.

 

[TeeELL]

1 hour ago, 71chally said:

The tailplane mod I've come up with is not only a correction for the horrible affair in the newer Airfix Canberra kits, but it is the only true representation of the Canberra tailplane for any of the so far released Canberra kits.  It's bugger to make from scratch so i get that many modellers won't want to go through the hassle, but as a resin or 3d insert it should be fairly easy modification.

 

PM sent James

[perdu]

5 hours ago, TeeELL said:

Perdu,
  this thread is discussing the issue with the tailplanes is it not?  You have introduced the fin into the equation.  Bottom line, my skill set and the limitations of the particular 3D software I use would make my effort relatively rudimentary and in need of finishing off by the modeller (the Canberra vertical stabiliser is quite a complex shape) - that also assumes I have sufficient data to even begin a basic design, which I don’t- sorry.  I would need the profile (side elevation) plus the aerofoil sections through the fin at intervals etc, etc, etc.  Even with all that it would require time spent at the PC creating the fin/rudder - but I don’t think there are enough modellers wanting an ‘improved vertical stabiliser that requires hand finishing’ to justify my time spent and final unit cost!

  
As far as the FROG kit goes, in terms of dimensions, I cannot really advise, other than ‘my’ Canberra forward fuselage has to be printed 103.7% larger to match the fuselage diameter of the FROG kit.

Sorry Tony you are right we should be discussing the tailplanes alone, I was only pontificating a dose of unobtainable perfection for a tail unit. 

 

My only intention at present is going to be to get tailplanes which tally up, anything else is up to whoever wants to go one step beyond.

 

NOT intended to put pressure on TeeELL productions, sorry if I clumsily sounded that daft.

[TeeELL]

Not a worry Perdu,

  who knows, you might have stirred my ‘design juices’ into having a go.  Depends on available data.

 

PS - Did I mention that “I hate you”!!!   Lol.

[perdu]

A Tonytailplane would do it for me you know...   

 

Three...

[TeeELL]

Two…..

[perdu]

Ah...

[canberra kid]

18 hours ago, TeeELL said:

Not a worry Perdu,

  who knows, you might have stirred my ‘design juices’ into having a go.  Depends on available data.

 

PS - Did I mention that “I hate you”!!!   Lol.

I may have something along those lines Tony 🤔😎

 

John