A GOTHA

[krow113]

Thanks Ian and Pete.

Its either an Aurora or a K&B , it cant be both , this statement has proven to be untrue! , it can be both!

 

 There is a write up in Gotha! about it , i'll see what that says.

Thanks for looking.

Edited December 8, 2017 by krow113

[Pete in Lincs]

Try this...

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjsiK7QjuzXAhXBxxQKHXEWDQ0QFghJMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldmodelkits.com%2Fblog%2Fclassic-plastic-model-kit-reviews%2Fauroras-gotha-gv-148-scale-bomber-kit%2F&usg=AOvVaw0GZj_MMRLoqOwbmS1pEekD

[krow113]

Pretty much covers it!

Thanks.

[Michael Scarborough]

Glad to have tracked you down here, Steve. This is looking great! The G. IV is to be my next build, so thanks for the inspiration.

 

Cheers from NYC,

Michael

[krow113]

Thanks Michael , good to have you on board.

 Not much to report. The next step in the instructions is the engines , THEN  the engine bearers and lower mid wing assy. I will be reversing those steps , as the wing assy has a similar paint treatment as the front of the fuse. Getting the mid wing and engine areas sorted prior to the engines being built makes sense , then they can plop right into their placements rather than be hanging around waiting for it...

Looking at pics in Gotha! I see that the front of the fuse in some examples is what appears to be polished or gloss varnished dark painted plywood. Then just aft of the pilots seat the fuse changes to the camo applied to the rest of the plane. I'll use these examples for my fuse paint work , switching from polished black to the hand painted irregular polygons. I was calling it 'lozenge' but I think that would be incorrect. The polygons are 4 and 5 sided and are literally laid out on the aircraft , presumably by hand , then painted.

There are a number of pics in publications of the polygons , I believe the only way to do it is to layout each shape by hand...

Anyone have any other suggestion !?

[Michael Scarborough]

Hi, Steve,

Two questions.....

 

- Will you be using Taurus parts for the engines? I'm working on two at the moment, just to get used to working with parts that small. Even with my first, rather rough, attempts, it's clear the inclusion of these teeny parts pushes things to a whole other level of detail. (It also pushes one's vocabulary of cuss words to a whole other level.)

 

- And, which picture in Gotha! are you looking at regarding the Polygons?

 

I have Gotha! as well as Ray Rimmel's Gothas of WWI book. Are there other research sources you can suggest? I have Ron Kootje's G.V conversion set and as soon as I finish the G. IV, I hope to move right into that conversion. Reference is mandatory for that!

 

Man, you have me sincerely fired up! Thanks!

 

Cheers from NYC,

Michael

[krow113]

Thanks Michael;

Yes you can see in the following shots the Taurus parts for the engine as well as the HGW p/e set .The p/e set is ok but I'll replace 'flat' oil lines with rod or pipe. There will also be a lot of 

scratchbuilding on one engine as one will be without the covers.

 

There are not a lot of pics of GIV's with the polygonal camo. I don't need a triple stack of references anyway to have some fun. There is a GIV pic on page 50 of Gotha! with the polygonal camo. Good enough for me!  There is documented descriptions of the camo , when it was deployed on the planes and the colors. With so many diff descriptions of this type of camo its easy to try and layout the scheme. Reading the available info and reading between the lines is needed , as the exact details of the layouts were long gone with the actual persons who did the hand-layout on the planes.

 

Using other sources is a good idea and keep an open mind. I recently acquired WNW's AEG kit. In that kit are great pics of the interior bomb rack employed in WW1 German bombers. WNW did not include these pics in the Gotha kit, Why not? Its the same rack ! I was left to come up with details on the bomb rack myself. Now I see a lot more in the AEG's instructions pics.

 

GV pics are a lot more available , in Gotha! and elsewhere, I'll put in as much as I can as I go through the model stages for the work that I do. I would have supercharged the engines if I could have found more pics , but there are not enough to see all of the components of the blower.

 

Des' WW1 aircraft forum is a good source as well , there are European modellers on that site who have access to the museums and collections for more info, especially for the engines.

 

Good luck with the GV conversion , I have seen it in pics and it looks to be very well done , I would like to do that one day as well , as GV refs are much more complete and the chances to mega detail a kit are there.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by krow113

[Michael Scarborough]

Hey, man, having fun, keeping an open mind, and ignoring the Experten are my first three rules of model building!

 

As for Des' site, I'm no longer a member there but have kept in touch with most of the guys I was friends with, especially Bertl "Umlaufmotor" Skorpil.  He has provided me with some amazing research materials from the various German museums and represents for me the true spirit and camaraderie of modelers sharing information.

 

I was following this build on the LSM site in the WnW Diorama GB and was sorry when you dropped out. So, as I said earlier, I am really glad to have found you again, and it seems especially fortuitous since I am about to beign a Gotha, myself. What's weird is that the link to your build here on Britmodeller just showed up in my inbox the other day....I have no idea how! Maybe it was an early gift from Santa!  But here we are! I'm going to go back and reread your thread here and try not to ask questions which already have clear answers! LOL!

 

Cheers from NYC,

Michael

[krow113]

Michael , Thank you.

 

 Yes Umoter is one of the good ones.

He was who I was referring to regarding some of the reference pics of Gotha type engines. 

 I was also lucky enough to get one of his cutting jigs , a very nice piece of modelling equipment:

 

 I have a tentative layout procedure in the works for my Gotha's camo scheme , first up will be a mask set for the fuse and lower mid wing assy. The polygonal pattern will be along the lines of this:

 

 

 Obligatory gratuitous bench shot in lieu of non-existant progress input:

 

Stay tuned!

[Michael Scarborough]

Out of chaos comes clarity. Great bench!

 

Yes, Bertl! I thought that might be who you were talking about. I got one of his little cutting jigs, as well an find it really helpful.

 

Are you going to be able to have that pattern cut out digitally...or with a scalpel?????

 

Cheers

[Blitz23]

Incredible stuff it's looking very nice so far!

[krow113]

Michael , B23 ;

Thank you.

The camo pattern will be laid out in Corel or SignLab .

I have a Roland sp300 digital print/cut machine so I can print a color number or the color onto the vinyl masking material then cut the polygon shapes. This entire large mask will then be applied to the part and individual colored/numbered polygon masks can be removed and replaced as I work through the colors. This is how I have envisioned the work going.

I have seen separate masks for each color but applying each one for each color seems problematic , having to line the large mask up each time to applied colors.....hhhmmm.

Also 'hot mix' will be used for the colors so they will be tough and stuck down well to the light blue ,first color , basecoat. D|ifferent clears will be used to help with representing the flat - gloss paints used for the : 5 color , hand painted , night camouflage on mid war G IV bombers.

Michael you can see the boxy shapes of the Gotha hex layout here, they can be used for the polygonal layout of the Gotha but the curved shapes of the AEG would need a new set made. This is a pen on paper rendering.

Edited December 15, 2017 by krow113

[krow113]

 The last of the Gotha colors arrives in a nice set:

I looked at a lot of manufacturers for these paints.

My original order from one manufacturer never showed up , $ 60.00 gone. This made me look at the colors again and re-order.

This set and the Vallejo colors will give me 4-5 tonal variations of each color.

Edited December 27, 2017 by krow113

[Michael Scarborough]

Hi, Steve,

 

Man this is just wonderful! The way you are pushing the envelope of model building by incorporating all your techno skills is really inspirational. And, yes, you are fortunate to have these skills and the equipment to bring your ideas into reality. Go for it! I will watch with interest...not to mention a little envy!

 

I still haven't decided on which camo. I am going to use on my G. IV. As I do with all my builds, the pilot and his personal markings will be fictitious, but he will be part of a real squadron and the camo. needs to fit the scenario accurately. My dad was a USN aviation historian, but I am an artist by trade, so the fight between historical accuracy, and artistic license, goes on incessantly in me. LOL!

 

Cheers from snowy NYC,

Michael

 

PS I understand about using these hexagons on the AEG vs. the Gotha. Thanks again for the thoughts.

[Michael Scarborough]

OK...I'm confused....the response posted above was supposed to have been posted several weeks ago? Huh??

 

I am really looking forward to watching the painting come together. Which Vallejo colors are you using to go along with these from AK?

 

 

Cheers from NYC,

Michael

 

 

 

[krow113]

Thanks Michael.

There have been some probs with the forum this month.

No biggie as this thread is in slow mode as I figure out some procedures.

I would go with the kit hex's on the AEG , they are well documented and there are a number of diff ways to have them finished on the model.

The Vallejo  colors are on page 3 , basically 4-5 shades or tones for each color , just to make sure I have a lot of leeway during the painting process to come. I have also found some light tan primer which will be the starting point.

 

 

[Michael Scarborough]

Happy New Year!

 

I jumped in and started my Gotha G. IV yesterday.  I have gone back and reread your thread here and appreciate the inspiration.

 

One question...where did you get the various size tubing you used for the back of the instrument panel? It look great.

 

Cheers from NYC,

Michael

[krow113]

Same to you and thanks Michael.

 

 The tubing hose and wires off the back of the IP are from my collection. A collection obtained off ebay , from hobby and craft stores etc. 

I will state here that the IP is of my own construction after looking at a lot of pics. Not just of Gotha's but of other aircraft as well.

None of it is actual, or has any pictorial proof. 

 As a custom fabricator and mechanic with vehicle assy line experience , I laid out the Ip as I would have liked it if it was my aircraft.

Get it laid out down to the corner:

And use a tube or other to gather the lines , they go straight into the floor:

Once it is gathered you can strap it with p/e car model tie wraps. then cut the end flush with the floor.

This piece will be removable on my model to show the IP and back work, this looks easy enough to accomplish if you are familiar with the kit.

Edited January 2, 2018 by krow113

[melvyn hiscock]

Is the compass hanging vertically? It needs to be horizontal to work properly, even in 1/32!

 

[krow113]

7 hours ago, melvyn hiscock said:

Is the compass hanging vertically? It needs to be horizontal to work properly, even in 1/32!

 

 Thanks MH , but you'll have to try harder...

Most of the reason for the compass being put on the lower left leg of the Ip was so that it would be seen through the window. I thought if I was flying at night or in near darkness, I would want as much light on the compass as poss:

WNW does a fabulous job of these kits.

And if I am correct they are getting better as we go along. I noticed a lot of diff in detail and refs from the Gotha to the AEG. The Gotha being earlier and with less interior refs , I have not seen a SINGLE  ref shot of the IP layout provided in the Gotha kit. As stated earlier I research the hell out of projects like this, but am limited to kit supplied refs and internet material. Quite frankly, if you tried to suspend a gauge with springs the way it is in the kit, it is not feasible. Have a close look at how the springs are and you will see what I mean. You guys HAVE TO UNDERSTAND not all of these bombers were built exactly the same! Instruments and armaments and engines were all in development and were constantly changing. Pilots and commanders would modify the designs and installations to suit themselves , remember this period would be the height of arrogance in the German Officer Corp !

 

My IP layout is as stated earlier.

Edited January 3, 2018 by krow113

[melvyn hiscock]

Lovely

 

[wyverns4]

Very nice!

 

Is there any link to that rather nifty jig?

 

Christian, exiled to africa

[krow113]

49 minutes ago, wyverns4 said:

Very nice!

 

Is there any link to that rather nifty jig?

 

Christian, exiled to africa

No, sorry.

I believe they were a limited production item.

[Johnny1000]

Wow. Really inspiring work. 

[Howlindawg]

Great to see this thread up and running again.

 

What is that spring suspended instrument supposed to be?

The Flux capacitor?

Does the ammeter read 1.21 gigawatts?