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TheRealMrEd

The Best 1/72 Scale F-100C I Can Build

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Hi all,

 

Having rested a day or two from my previous endeavors, I have decided to begin another project, hopefully a smidge easier, and pray God a little easier!

 

I have decided to tackle the 1/72 scale F-100C quandary.  I have read that some of the older kits are quite accurate, but lack modern detail. I have been told that the Trumpeter offering of the F-100C has detail, but is not accurate. Perhaps we can combine them for a better outcome. We shall see:

 

My candidate materials for this effort are shown below:

 

F100C001-vi.jpg

 

Model-wise, we have the Esci F-100D Thunderbirds marking kit  (I have three in the stash, so there was really no other older kit choice for me), and the Trumpeter F-100C. Other potentially useful pieces are the Obscureco F-100C conversion kit, and the Aires F-100 wheel set and the F-100D cockpit set. (The latter is not really needed for the entire cockpit, as the Trumpeter's offer isn't bad, but the Aires set has one critically needed iitem -- secret for now.)

 

In addition, "The F-100 Super Sabre In Detail & Scale" Part 1 by Bert Kinzey, features drawings direct from North American Rockwell, with a right-side view added by Mr Ed Moore. These drawing are accurate enough for me. This book only contains drawings for the F-100A and C models, with the D-F models covered in D & S Vol 33. The latter also has drawings for the A and C models, but fewer pics of these are in the later book.

 

Now, for the background. There seems to be four major complaints about the Trumpeter kit: The too-shallow and flattened nose shape; the incorrectly shaped vertical stabilizer, the wing and the wrong ejection seat. These is also a complaint about the wheels being too large, which is easily corrected by sanding down the kit wheels, or easier yet, the Aires resin set. There is one other issue, the fact that the wings are too shallow, which leads to the wheel wells also being too shallow, I will ignore this problem, because my models will not get picked for examination, after they are complete.  I also have read that the afterburner can (the original style, not the F-102 type) is too short front to back. The one in the kit measures pretty close to the drawings, so I will also ignore that concern.

 

Now to begin sorting the rest, we have a comparison of the Esci F-100D wing to the drawings:

 

F100Fit001-vi.jpg

 

A dead fit, except for the tiny area at the tips. Kudos to the older kit! By cutting back to the C-type wing outline, and filling the flap lines, and re-scribing a few lines here and there, you could have pretty much a nice C wing. You would not, however, have the open leading edge slats, de riguer for any Hun on the ground, whose crew hadn't taped up the slats. You can, however, chop up the wings and do your own slats, which I started on one of my stashed Esci kits.

 

Next the Obscureco solution to the wing problem:

 

F100Fit002-vi.jpg

 

It solves the problem, but the shape is a little off -- at least compared to these drawings -- but, they are also short, just under 3/8" short in real life.

 

Now the Trumpeter offering:

 

F100Fit003-vi.jpg

 

Except for being a bit wide, chord-wise, it's pretty much bang on. It is interesting to note that all of these possibilities have differing views on where the aileron and flap lines should be, They don't agree with the drawings, nor with each other. If this is a problem for you -- have fun.

 

Next, we look at the Trumpeter vertical stabilizer:

 

F100Fit004-vi.jpg

 

Here we can see that the shape is too tall, and not seen here, the chord is too broad, at the "kink". The model is not fully aligned with the drawing in this photo, to show the former.

 

Next, the Obscureco tail:

 

F100Fit005-vi.jpg

 

Pretty much an exact fit. And, for the final determining factor:

 

F100Fit006-vi.jpg

 

The Trumpeter tail has too many segments in the area under the ECM pod down toward the fuse. This was pointed out in someone else's blog, but I couldn't find it again to give credit. My apologies.

 

There is however, one bit of fairly good news concerning the Trumpeter F-100C tail -- It wouldn't take much carving (but a lot of scribing) to turn it into the earlier X and A style short tails:

 

F100Fit007-vi.jpg

 

For me at least, the above information tells me that I'm going to build the Trumpeter F-100C, but use the Obscureco tail. Also, to be fair to Oscureco, my example was one of their very earliest copies, and they may be more accurate today, which might sway someone else's choice.

 

Well, that's it to start with, as my brain is burnt out and it's almost time for the Super Bowl -- Yeah Falcons!

 

When next we meet, we'll look into the nose issues, and my solution.

 

Later,

 

Ed

 

 

.

 

 

Edited by TheRealMrEd
typos

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You have certainly put a lot of effort and research into this, I will be following, as I know very little about F-100's

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Hi Ed! 

 

Your post isvery very timely as I am at the same stage with my C now :)...... I have two Esci kits and the Obscurco wing and tail set.... But it looks like i'd be better with the Trumpeter wing, which I have.... luckily :).

 

Martin

Edited by RidgeRunner

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Hi Ed,

 

I am back at my workbench - actually my desk - and contemplating the wings. I have the Obscureco wing as well as a Trumpeter F-100C that I can use as parts for my Esci-based F-100C. Before I commit cement to plastic is the use of the Trumpeter wing preferable in your opinion? I ask because having now reviewed the Obscureco offering it is lacking in clean detail. My preference, I think, will be to go with the the lower fuselage plug from the Esci D-model with wings removed and attach the Trumpeter C-model wings. Is that your action plan too?

 

I will use the Obscureco fin, though. It isn't so bad, despite needing some surface sanding.

 

I've got to this stage:

 

Aires cockpit fitted and part-painted

Aires tail pipe installed and part painted

plugged the tailplane slots so that I can drill out for a pivoting rod  to allow tilting

Fuselage cemented after weighting

drilled out the front plate to allow a deeper inlet

 

IMG_2461_zpskcka9jv5.jpg

 

Martin

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In the end I got the Trumpeter wing on the Esci and it is working okay. The joint is pretty clean and neat. :). I'll post images when I can. I went this way rather than a full Trumpeter build because the Esci is said to be more accurate and is certainly better around the nose area, notwithstanding the detail is better with the Trumpeter.

 

Martin

Edited by RidgeRunner

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Looks like fun. You are brave to take on such a project.

I presume at some point  undercarriage bays, air brakes and canopies will be compared, with a similar variety of results.

Interesting to see no one got the aileron's right, you would have thought one could have managed it. Then you could have cut them off and surgically attached to the best sized wing. The Gods of Modelling make nothing easy.

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everyone has different references hence different interpretations of the same thing. Curse of the hobby. will follow this with interest.

 

 

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Hi all,

 

Martin, actually, because of the increased detail, I plan on using the Trumpeter kit, with a small donation from the Esci kit, along with the Obscureco vertical stabilizer.

 

John_W, I hadn't actually planned to do those comparisons, but since I have all the stuff handy at the moment, I could do it if anyone would find it useful -- comments anyone?

(The reason I hadn't thought to do so, is that all my finished models reside in a display case, will never get picked with the exception of their once-in-a-decade dusting, and the fact that I burned myself out of modeling for years, trying to go full detail insane!) I pretty much model only what can be seen sitting on the ground, but even at that, in the last 13 months, I only managed to complete two models, the B-45A and P2V-3, both posted in WIP and RFI.... guess I'm getting old AND slow.

 

Meanwhile, to everyone else, welcome aboard!

 

Ed

 

 

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Hi Ed,

 

Just a comment on the Trumpeter. I matched up the two canopies (Esci-Trumpeter) and the latter is quite narrow.

 

Martin

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Good catch Martin! The Trumpeter canopy is indeed too narrow! I HATE YOU!

 

Seriously, for some dumb reason I had never looked at that.  Never fear, I shall "get medieval upon it's buttocks" and prevail anyway. I just developed a secret plan -- I think!

 

Ed

 

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Hi Ed et al!

 

Am I going mad? I have a very rough copy of the Obscureco tail and out of curiosity I've matched it against the Trumpeter and ...

 

IMG_2466_zpslg3pmxz9.jpg

 

IMG_2465_zpstt3uiasq.jpg

 

To me the two are pretty much the same, or are my eyes not functioning properly? I admit that there are some errors - the panel lines and the ribs on the rudder but......!!!! Shape-wise the Trumpeter does the job I reckon! Any thoughts before I cut and glue! Maybe Obscureco produced a revised moulding? I am poised with knife, saw, sanders and glue ..... help!!!!

 

Martin

 

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Yes, John :(. To me the difference is miniscule and so I reckon the Trumpeter fin will win ;). I was born of an engineer so that probably explains some of my ways :) 

 

Martin

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Well Martin,

Either my Trumpeter F-100C is different than yours  OR my Obscureco F-100C Tail is different from yours  OR ...you're going mad:

 

taildiff-vi.jpg

 

And, whether or not you're going mad the Obscureco tail still has the correct 8 segments on the lower aft tailfin, while the Trumpeter kit has 10.

 

F100ATail-vi.jpg

 

If neither of these is worth bothering with, then why are you bothering?

 

Ed

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Interesting subject Ed I'll follow along too if there's room?

 

   Roger

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Thanks Ed....... :). I've decided to make allowances and pass the Trumpeter as fit for cementing! It isn't absolutely accurate but for me it'll work I reckon.

 

Martin 

Edited by RidgeRunner

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Welcome aboard, Roger.

 

Martin, I agree totally. As I stated indicated above, if it's so minor as not to bother, ignore it and move on. I'm mainly doing this as it's the "most accurate 'I' can build". Not to say the most perfect, nor totally accurate. I, for one, never get real excited about landing gear bays, but there are those that do. To each his own. The main reason I don't -- any more -- is that I burned myself out of modeling for 20 years, and I can't get back those lost years. So, I do it my way, which works for me.

 

All that being said, I encourage and ask for ideas, comments and critiques upon how the model might be made better, easier, whatever, as the next person doing this kit might want to go three steps further than I do, and we would all benefit from the shared expertise, or even just thoughts. Let's all leave that person with more options than we had...

 

Ed

 

Edited by TheRealMrEd
typos

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Hello again, everyone.

 

Now that we've debated the tale of the "tail", and everyone has retreated to their separate corners, we'll proceed.

 

Next up, the infamous Trumpeter nose. Let me say right here that the entire Esci kit is certainly more than worthy, and more than accurate enough to be built on it's own. I am only swimming upstream by building the Trumpeter kit, as I am somewhat of a "contrarian" and am curious as to whether I can pull this off. As I've stated earlier, sometimes the only way I can motivate myself to get off the old duff is to make a public pronouncement, and then have to try  to back it up! There will undoubtedly be times when I fail to measure up. Time will tell if "then" has become "now"

 

First, I laid the Trump -- I like saying that name, so now I will begin using it when I refer to Trumpeter. (Ha Ha) -- left fuse side on the drawings, and found it didn't fit. Then I dug out the nose section from the Esci kit to determine where to surgically remove the Trump nose to accommodate the Esci nose, and end up at the correct length.

 

F100C006-vi.jpg

 

Next, I assembled the intake assembly from the Trump kit, and laid it into place, after sawing off the kit's nose cone:

 

F100C007-vi.jpg

 

As can be seen, the intake protrudes beyond the cut-off kit. Holding the Esci nose piece into place upon the temporarily assembled fuse halves and the intake, we can then see what "patching" needs to be done, inside the intake:

 

F100C008-vi.jpg

 

Width is pretty good, but we're a little short, top-to-bottom. To begin the "fix", we'll take a razor saw and cut to the second mark on the top of the intake front, and split our newly-glued seam on the intake trunk sides that far back:

 

F100C009-vi.jpg

 

Then we put all the same pieces back together, and insert a plastic wedge vertically into the intake trunk, to hold the vertical distance in place for the next step.

 

F100C010-vi.jpg

 

It looks like this when you take off the Esci nose cone:

 

F100C011-vi.jpg

 

Next, I cut two appropriately-shaped plastic wedges, and glued them on either side of the intake trunk, using liquid cement.

 

f100c012-vi.jpg

 

My intake trunk turned out a little crude. The more time you take fitting and gluing here, the less time you'll spend filling and sanding later.

 

F100C013-vi.jpg

 

A little Milliput and some sanding, and it's starting to take shape:

 

F100C014-vi.jpg

 

Now, we get ready to slide the Esci F-100D nose back into place:

 

F100C015-vi.jpg

 

Getting a little better:

 

F100C016-vi.jpg

 

Nose will need a little sanding, inside and out:

 

F100C017-vi.jpgF100C018-vi.jpg

 

The upper fairing on the Esci nose "B" is wider than the Trump kit nose "A"

 

F100C019-vi.jpg

 

I thought about making a master mold, so I could make resin copies of the finished product, so I filled the back of the nosecone with Milliput, to assist in that process:

 

F100C020-vi.jpg

 

In the end, this did not pan out, as the shape of the nose cone gets taller as you move forward from the one red line, and the shape of the intake gets broader going the other way. This means that to cast it, you would have to use ann extremely tough, yet flexible mold material, which would not be very long-lasting, and therefore  not very practical as a commercial venture.

 

F100C021-vi.jpg

 

 

So for those of you who have been waiting for someone to mold you a new aftermarket nose, I probably wouldn't bet the farm on that happening!

 

So, once I gave up on that idea, I had to glue the two ends of the intake trunk back together, using bit of plastic card as reinforcement, and re-installed in a fuse half to get the length correct. Fortunately, for those building along at home, you can ship this step. If you're NOT building along at home, smart move!

 

F100C021a-vi.jpg

 

 Nothing here is very new, as others have dome similarly before. I am just showing how I did it, and hopefully with enough detail so that  you can just do it also, without thinking about it too much.  In any event, we've now reached the end of the tale of the nose,.

 

See you next time,

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

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On 06.02.2017 at 10:50 PM, TheRealMrEd said:

Good catch Martin! The Trumpeter canopy is indeed too narrow! I HATE YOU!

 

Seriously, for some dumb reason I had never looked at that.  Never fear, I shall "get medieval upon it's buttocks" and prevail anyway. I just developed a secret plan -- I think!

 

Ed

 

Do not HATE Martin!😆

Rob-Taurus vacu canopy help you:

http://www.rob-taurus.cz

72015.jpg

 

B.R.

Serge

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6 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Do not HATE Martin!😆

Rob-Taurus vacu canopy help you:

http://www.rob-taurus.cz

 

B.R.

Serge

 

Really excellent stuff! I bought a Rob-Taurus vacu canopy for my Hasegawa F-14 and it's perfect, crystal clear despite being a little bit thick.

Only advice, you have to be very patient separating it from its "frame".

I ruined one because I was not careful enough. my mistake.

 

Davide 

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Hi all,

 

Back again with Mr Ed's wild ride. Serge, the Rob-Taurus canopy is a good idea, but I have another idea up my sleeve!

 

To continue, we take the old trusty #11 X-acto blade, and trim off the rear-most circular ring on the interior of the tail. This will allow the kit tail-pipe to be inserted at the end of the build, because as well know, the tail is at the end; just makes sense.

 

F100C033-vi.jpg

 

Also, we'll remove the tail hook protector, as I will be building an aircraft depicting a time before they came into use on the F-100, which was around 1960. In any event, even for a later time, the guard is molded on the wrong side of the aircraft.

 

F100C035-vi.jpg

 

Also, the little "D" shaped vent should be sanded down, then re-scribed. The same vent should be added to the other side (marked "X").

 

F100C034-vi.jpg

 

Next before closing up the fuse, a little more needs doing on the inside. Below, I have sawed off the kit's vertical stabilizer to fit the Obscuerco F-100C tail fin. I have also glued into place the intake trunk/Esci  nose assembly, along with the correct (narrow cut-out) speed brake housing. I'll leave the speed-brake itself off 'til later. Also, I have glued in some plastic card scrap to the right side only, as both a re-inforcement and a place for the Obscureco part to sit later.

 

F100C036-vi.jpg

 

At this point it is time to paint the Aires F-100D resin pit. I also added only the rudder pedals and the cockpit sides to the assembly, using 560 canopy cement. The cockpit sides will need to be sanded thinner by trial and error, to fit within the closed fuse -- more or less...

 

F100C037-vi.jpg

 

Next, we stick the fuse halves together temporarily to check the fit o' the pit. I had to trim the rear shelf support rail back a bit where shown at "A", allowing the pit to slide rearward, to assure there would be room to fit the instrument panel later on, into the space shown as "B".

 

F100C038-vi.jpg

 

As noted earlier, that rascally Martin was unkind enough to mention that the Trump kit cockpit was too narrow -- and right he was. Part of my secret weapon to fix this includes making a vacuform copy of the Esci kit, which happens to fit the drawings perfectly. Below, I filled the Esci canopy with Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty, which doesn't like to bond to plastic very well. After that dried, I used 560 cement to glue a piece of 1/4" styrofoam to the bottom, to be able to pull a better canopy molding.

 

F100C040-vi.jpg

 

Later (not shown here, I glued the entire bottom side of the fuse together, but not any of the top seam. When that had dried overnight, I laid the Esci canopy across the fuse opening, and on the fuse spine, shimmed open the seam to fit the Esci canopy width. I then glued in scrap bits of plastic card to mostly fill the upper fuse seam, which I will putty later. I also glued the left side of the fuse to the large tail support piece of card that I had glued earlier to the right side.

 

F100C041-vi.jpg

 

Here, one word of caution: I extended this piece of card too far rearward, and later had to file a flat spot atop the tail-pipe, when test fitting it later. I you try this, make yours about 3/8" shorter than shown here. Al.so, a couple of additional shims have been added to this back area to give the Obscureco tail fin the proper "set" later on. After drying, all the excess plastic fill will be trimmed off before filling.

 

Below is shown the fuselage, after rough trimming, and with the Obscureco F-100C tail glued into place with medium CA. (I took the liberty of making a resin copy of this, so that I would have a backup, if things went south!). Also show is the vacuformed copy of the Esci canopy just sitting in place to check the fit.

 

F100C042-vi.jpg

 

Doing the fuse fit problem this way also addresses another problem found -- that the whole fairing atop the fuse was too narrow, along the entire fuse. This method helps to correct that problem, as well.

 

More to come. Stay tuned.

 

Ed

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