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Navy Bird

1:72 English Electric Canberra PR.9 "End of an Era" - Finished!

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31 minutes ago, 71chally said:

John, I have to agree with Bill on this.

I spent hours pouring over detail photos yesterday, and the Xtratkit parts and details match, in some cases incredibly closely.

Some of the minor details vary, such as the reversed outlets mentioned earlier, but at least they are there.

Even the interior is pretty impressive for a basic kit.

It's obvious that time was spent with a real aircraft (possibly from JA service?), where I can't see that Airfix did, certainly not the aft end of one!

 

Be interesting to know where you say they vary John, as I know you have an excellent library.

 

 

PS seeing your lovely shots of XH171 (in my favourite scheme!) I forgot that it was never fitted with the RWR bullets, interesting as it retired from service well after they had been introduced on the fleet.

 

I know James the Extra kit is quite close as I said, but other than various factory drawings(blue prints) for the PR.9 another very good book for information of panels and my main point of reference is AP 101B-0400-6 Canberra Aircraft Repair and reconditioning instructions. This book is very accurate in panel details as it needs to be for any work to be carried out. As I said, I may be being a bit pedantic in my criticism, but I am 100% sure regarding the fuselage external skin stiffener plates.

The following photo will help I hope? 

The actual plates are marked in red,  Airfix in yellow, and Extrakit in blue 

SG101061_zpscq7qxd5b.jpg

SG101089%202_zpsavlnolet.jpg

Extra kit have done something akin to the shape of the plates on the PR.7 but the ones on the 7 don't extend up to the panel Extrakit would have you believe, they are still the same depth and position as the ones on the 3,6.8,9,12,15,16,22. As I said the Extrakit wings are quite close to what is in the AP, just some minor details

John          

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Wing time, the red lines are the ones that need filling the blue the ones that need adding.The one in green is the outer edge of the wing tank and could do with moving 6mm nearer the wing tip but seeing as it passes through the VG it may not be good idea. As for the underside, follow the Extrakit wing it's not 100% but much better than the Airfix kit especially inboard of the engine apart from the wrong way around vent that is. The lines for the wing tank should match top and bottom. If you want me to check the various access panels I will. 

IMG_1701_zpsuhmzjnn1.jpg

 

John   

 

Edited by canberra kid
slight mod on the photo

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I do see what you mean John, I think what Xtrakit have done with the strengthening plate is that they have left out the upper edge line for it which makes it look like it joins the upper fuselage panel line.  However in photos it's incredibly hard to make out that stiffener plate top line/edge, maybe that helped them come to a decision to leave it off, or they just forgot!

Basically its upper edge should run from the top of that angle on its aft face, horizontally into the wing root trailing edge area, the rest matches perfectly to photos, even where it meets other panel lines.  Looks straightforward enough to scribe in that new line upper line if needed. 

 

wasn't sure where to start on the Airfix panel, though I'm guessing most will be filled in!

 

32588918390_0efc5b36d8_c.jpgXtrakit Airfix Canberras by James Thomas, on Flickr

Yellow lines existing panel lines on kit, orange line the extra stiffener panel line - approximate.

Note the Airfix kit is a B(I).8.

 

 

Edited by 71chally

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This is how mad the Airfix kits are, the plates are the same on all Canberra's as listed earlier, but the two kits are very diferant, even allowing for the deeper cord of the PR.9 wing it does not coincide with the bottom line of the plate as the kit would have it. The one on the B(I)8 is better but I think the upward angle of the bottom line is much too steep, in this respect the one on the PR.9 is better. The photo also highlights the variation in the panel lines, the panels on the fuselage aft of the rear transport joint should be the same on all Canberra's, but as you can see they have very little in common! Even the tail bumpers are in diferant positions, the one on the B(I)8 being correct so you may want to move it forward on yours Bill? so it's just touching the panel line in front of it.  

IMG_1703_zpsthtsr0ey.jpg

 

John

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3 hours ago, canberra kid said:

The actual plates are marked in red,  Airfix in yellow, and Extrakit in blue        

 

1 hour ago, 71chally said:

Basically its upper edge should run from the top of that angle on its aft face, horizontally into the wing root trailing edge area, the rest matches perfectly to photos, even where it meets other panel lines.  Looks straightforward enough to scribe in that new line upper line if needed. 

 

One idea I have is to fill the lines that don't belong there, and then make up strengthening plates from Bare-Metal Foil and then put them in place. That way they would be ever so slightly proud of the surface, which I'm guessing they should be. The surface will have to be prepared well, though, as Bare Metal Foil shows everything that is underneath. To be honest, I hate the stuff, but I think maybe it's worth a try.

 

1 hour ago, canberra kid said:

Wing time, the red lines are the ones that need filling the blue the ones that need adding.The one in green is the outer edge of the wing tank and could do with moving 6mm nearer the wing tip but seeing as it passes through the VG it may not be good idea. As for the underside, follow the Extrakit wing it's not 100% but much better than the Airfix kit especially inboard of the engine apart from the wrong way around vent that is. The lines for the wing tank should match top and bottom. If you want me to check the various access panels I will. 

 

Strangely enough, the drawing supplied by Airfix for the decal application is much closer to what you've shown here than the kit itself. Not 100% agreement, but much closer. One question though - shouldn't the top of the wing spar get thinner outboard, somewhere near the location of the flap actuators? 

 

Cheers,

Bill

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31 minutes ago, canberra kid said:

Even the tail bumpers are in diferant positions, the one on the B(I)8 being correct so you may want to move it forward on yours Bill? so it's just touching the panel line in front of it.  

 

On the photos, it looks like the front of the tail bumper is aligned quite closely with the leading edge of the tailplane - here is a photo that was posted earlier: 

 

32071836724.jpg

 

The tail bumper on the Airfix PR.9 kit is lined up with the leading edge just like this photo. So is the Xtrakit. On the B(I).8 fuselage above, it looks like the tail bumper is a bit forward of the tailplane. Perhaps it's the one that is incorrect?

 

Cheers,

Bill

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You're right about the spar cap Bill, I've amended the photo, note though the double line ends at the end of the wing tank which as I pointed out is 6mm shie of where it should be so it's yet another compromise.

 IMG_1701_zpsniivxdjn.jpg

John

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Ref. Input from a Canberra first timer -

Doing my airfix Martin b57 in 1/48, I found that the drawings represent what I found out far better than the mouldings. Maybe they outsourced the graphics!

I think they reckon on you guys sorting it out anyway, and others just making do with what they're given.

The guide for me currently is" believe the drawings"

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7 minutes ago, canberra kid said:

Nice photo! If you follow the panel line round it's slightly over it. 

John

 

Thanks - is my Bare Metal Foil idea pants, or do you think it might be OK?   :) 

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Wow! That photo is the Canberra you're modelling, right?

Have you got the decal sheet that's represented in the pic??

THAT is something else. I'm not big on camouflage schemes, but that looks very nice.

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You just jogged my memory Bill, and I use very thin plasticard to represent the stiffener panel, so your idea with foil will work. 

This is probably why the kits panel lines in that area weren't that important to me.

 

Re the wing dihedral from earlier, when I built my Xtrakit the wings seemed to have the right dihedral built straight from the box, just checked the two in the stash and they both have it on the lower wings, so could be the variences of a limited production kit.

 

Rob and Bill, I would agree with that, Airfix do seem to supply good drawings with their kits, often wonderd on their accuracy but they look right.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Navy Bird said:

 

Thanks - is my Bare Metal Foil idea pants, or do you think it might be OK?   :) 

 

Cheers,

Bill

Yes Bill, that's a good idea, I did the same with my B(I)8/B.6 hybrid only I used vinyl rap as used on cars, a little bit thicker I guess? The ones I've cut out are the shape as fitted the one on the drawing is the PR.7 shape, 

IMG_1212_zpsgrs2mop7.jpg

 

John

 

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The tail bumper seems to start immediately aft of that panel line to me.

 

32846883401_18af8e135c_c.jpgCanberra PR.9 XH134 by James Thomas, on Flickr

 

You will need to view the shot at full size to see the line, but it's there.  Also useful for showing the various underside ports and vents etc.

 

8253989134_00e0123497_b.jpg

 

 

 

I wonder if the two Airfix kits have the tail bumper in the right position, but actually gets the panel line wrong on one them?

Edited by 71chally
added link

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32 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said:

Wow! That photo is the Canberra you're modelling, right?

Have you got the decal sheet that's represented in the pic??

THAT is something else. I'm not big on camouflage schemes, but that looks very nice.

 

Yes, I have the decal sheet. There's a picture of it on Page 1. It's a beautiful scheme. 

 

16 minutes ago, 71chally said:

I wonder if the two Airfix kits have the tail bumper in the right position, but actually gets the panel line wrong on one them?

 

Nice photo! One of them has the panel line in the wrong spot, as they're both different. In John's photo of the B(I).8 hybrid (what is that? link please!) the tail bumper looks lined up to the tailplane leading edge. I'm still thinking the PR.9 is pretty much where it should be. Unless, of course, the tailplanes are in the wrong spot - ha! Don't want to think about that one...   :) 

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Also notice in that (and this one) picture Bill that the main undercarriage doors aren't square with the wheels, they angle out towards the rear.

 

32847457801_a36bde79f9_c.jpgCanberra PR.9 XH134 by James Thomas, on Flickr

 

 

PS John might be referring to WT333, which I think he is involved with,

http://on-target-aviation.com/heritage/canberra-wt333-history/

 

Edited by 71chally

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18 minutes ago, 71chally said:

PS John might be referring to WT333, which I think he is involved with,

http://on-target-aviation.com/heritage/canberra-wt333-history/

 

Nice! A rather prominent proboscis, but nice!   :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Just noticed something about the fuel tank that's in the front of the bomb bay. Airfix have a panel line down the middle along the longitudinal axis of the aeroplane. Looking at that nice big photo of the underside that James has kindly posted, I just don't see it. I'm thinking that puppy gets filled in.

 

Cheers,

Bill

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I used 5 thou plasticard for my rear fuselage stiffening panels in both 1/72th and 1/48th scales: I thnk even that is a tad thick for the smaller scale but looks a bit better on the larger.

 

The front "weapons bay" tank drops out as a single component IIRC, rather than being enclosed by doors as on, for example, Victor SR and K conversions so, once again, filling and sanding practice appears in your future.

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1 hour ago, 71chally said:

 

Also notice in that (and this one) picture Bill that the main undercarriage doors aren't square with the wheels, they angle out towards the rear.

 

I suppose that stands to reason, thinking about the shape between the top of the well and the aerofoil shape the cover makes with the wing when closed.

Loving the photos and details you're all working out!

I just been looking around for a 1/72 Canberra kit, to have a go. Found nothing! Out of production?? Are yours all stashed from days of plenty?

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I just picked up a third Xtrakit PR.9 for £15 from a well known auction site.

Despite my undying love for that kit, it is quite a bit harder to put together than the Airfix kit, but then that's modelling!

Saying that, it's harder to correct the Airfix.

 

I would agree with what you say about the U/C doors Rob.

 

I kinda feel sorry for Bill, his fabulous build a Canberra thread has become a how to correct one!

 

 

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Neither of the 1/72th Airfix Canberras has been in production for a while.  They got such a panning from some quarters when they first appeared that they may not be back for some time, if at all.  Your best bet presently if you want one is trawling the second hand market.  Maybe Airfix might be persuaded to do a complete retool (of bomber, interdictor and PR variants) in time for the 70th anniversary of the first flight of VN799 in 2019.

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2 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

Yes, I have the decal sheet. There's a picture of it on Page 1. It's a beautiful scheme. 

 

 

Nice photo! One of them has the panel line in the wrong spot, as they're both different. In John's photo of the B(I).8 hybrid (what is that? link please!) the tail bumper looks lined up to the tailplane leading edge. I'm still thinking the PR.9 is pretty much where it should be. Unless, of course, the tailplanes are in the wrong spot - ha! Don't want to think about that one...   :) 

 

Cheers,

Bill

This is a link to my WT333 build if you're interested Bill? WT333

IMG_1690_zpsaiopirfw.jpg

 

John

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