Jump to content

As a result of the close-down of the UK by the British Government last night, we have made all the Buy/Sell areas read-only until we open back up again, so please have a look at the announcement linked here.

This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Navy Bird

1:72 English Electric Canberra PR.9 "End of an Era" - Finished!

Recommended Posts

57 minutes ago, Navy Bird said:

PS. Is it just me, or is the horn of the SBS rudder (the part that points forward) not quite long enough? 

I'd say so myself. Not an easy fix, I'm afraid; I can only think of adding some "flesh" with milliput or maybe CA glue ... :shrug:

 

Ciao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like it shrunk in the wash, or made for a different kit!

 

Hard to recommend with someone else's kit, but I would take some plastic off the kits fin trailing and top edges which should move the rudder down and forwards.

Edited by 71chally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, canberra kid said:

I've sorted out some nice under side shots of her for you, this is the sensor configuration in the kit also some interesting weathering if you fancy :)

Gash52%202_zps12j6nt4q.jpg

Gash76%202_zpsmyhn6muo.jpg

Not 134 at the front she's behind in grey, but the one in front is the same fit and you can see the B(I)8 wing pylon plates. 

Canberra_5170%202_zpsd7g8bzqf.jpg

This her in grey which I quite like

Canberra_5233_zpshz7lf5pe.jpg

As you can see the paint is removed from the underside of the spar cap too

Canberra_5268%202_zpslhw9zgmt.jpg

John

 

I don't normally quote a post and include the photos, but I've done it here so I don't have to keep scrolling up and down! Some questions of these lovely views of the underside. The black checkerboard areas on each wing - what are they? Airfix have a decal sheet half a hectare in size, but then have you paint these on, wonderful. 

 

Next, the panel that is between the starboard nacelle and the fuselage - Airfix would also have you paint this, but as a flat black rectangle. I think not - there is quite a lot going on there. I'll look for a close-up of this area so I can try to reproduce it accurately.

 

Moving over to the area between the fuselage and the port nacelle, can I assume that the two rectangles are for GPS? If so, I can purloin some leftover decals from my recent Sea Harrier build.

 

The two long streaks inboard of the nacelles look to be coming from two exhausts or vents of some sort forward of the landing gear doors. These are not replicated in the Airfix kit. Xtrakit have a tiny bump at that spot.

 

Xtrakit also have a small rectangular inlet that stands proud of the surface, on both sides forward of the gear doors. I don't see this in any of the above photos, except maybe on the last one forward of the white square stencil. Are these on XH134 in her retirement scheme, assuming they're real? 

 

Airfix have moulded a slight lip that runs along the entire bomb bay door cover. In the photos above, I can see portions of it, but it's not clear to me if this is as Airfix have moulded it. Xtrakit have this feature, much more pronounced - almost like a strake, but only along the rear half of the bomb bay. Forward of that, there is no "lip" but they have included some panels that stand proud of the surface, like strengthening plates.

 

Airfix have provided two sets of bomb bay doors which look to be for two different camera setups. The one that I'll use for XH134 has a curved cylindrical clear part that goes over an opening near the front of the bomb bay doors (cover?). This doesn't appear on any of the above shots, so I guess I can just paint it over.

 

There are three strakes on each side of the belly, just in front of the round camera window. Xtrakit have moulded these nicely, Airfix include them as engraved panel lines and only on the starboard side. Based on the above photos, Xtrakit is correct and I'll need to add the strakes. 

 

Sorry for all this, just trying to figure out what needs to be on the model and what doesn't. 

 

1 hour ago, Mountain goat said:

If it doesn't conflict with accuracy maybe you could sand back the fin's trailing edge a little so that the length below the horn matches up - also you might by look of things simultaneously achieve a smaller gap between rudder & fuselage that way.

 

There are a few things I can try. Airfix have moulded the rudder hing joint on the fuselage nicely concave, so that you can position the rudder where you'd like. It will make for an interesting sand and fit session! I'm sure we'll work something out.

 

Cheers,

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that went together quickly, and well! Good job Bill.

I'm no expert but looking at the rudder shot:

 

IMG_1120.jpg

 

there seems to be a bigger gap at the bottom of the rudder's leading edge than the top? IF you sanded the rudder's leading edge do you think it might 'swivel' into place?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It also looks to me that the base of the rudder is too wide Bill - if you project the line of the trailing edge down it looks like it will finish way behind the small fairing below the rudder - unlike the real thing;

 

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/wallpapers/canberra/canberra_02_1280.jpg

 

Or is it maybe the rudder's trailing edge angle is too shallow...

 

Keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This should be a fairly accurate drawing :) I always use the kit rudder, it's a pain filling all the panels but it fits and looks ok to me 

Can%20PR9%20Rudder%203%20mod_zpswsqywwhj 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bill,

 

I think the black squares under the  wings outboard of the engine are chaff or flare dispensers.  Agreed it seems odd that Airfix didn't include them on the decal sheet, bearing n mind it's size.

 

The dark rectangle between starboard nacelle and fuselage was an aerial panel and installed on both sides on all early Canberras.  Not sure what the three growths on it are, but may be some form of decoy or ESM kit.  I'm sure John will be along soon to put me right (I hope!).

 

The pale rectangle between port nacelle and fuselage is a Doppler radar panel, so robbing one from the SHAR kit is entirely appropriate.

 

XH171 sports a pair of circular exhausts ahead of the man wheel bays but, being bulled up for display purposes, she doesn't have the streaks.

 

Sorry, no idea about the square inlet ahead of the gear doors.

 

There is a raised rib along each side at the edge of the weapons bay opening.  This only extends a few inches past each end of the doors, so on PR Canberras it's only present along the rear half, the front half of the bay generally, but not always, being occupies by additional fuel tankage.

 

The three small strakes just aft of the rear of the weapons bay should be there, so more work for you.

 

That rudder!!  The resin part doesn't look up to it; it's undersized top to bottom and cutting down the fin and/or taking some material from the fin trailing edge won't help.  The horn balance appears a bit short too: I know resin shrinks when it cures but this appears excessive.  

 

I'm sorry that you've incurred the additional expense to buy it, but possibly the least worst course of action may be filling the overdone surface detail on the kit part and rescrbing as appropriate.  You've put so much into this kit already that you can't spoil the ship for a hap'orth of tar (or aftermarket rudder).

Edited by stever219

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

I don't normally quote a post and include the photos, but I've done it here so I don't have to keep scrolling up and down! Some questions of these lovely views of the underside. The black checkerboard areas on each wing - what are they? Airfix have a decal sheet half a hectare in size, but then have you paint these on, wonderful. 

These are the flair and chaff dispensers, they were added after it was found that the Bozz pods ere destroying the wings.  

 

Next, the panel that is between the starboard nacelle and the fuselage - Airfix would also have you paint this, but as a flat black rectangle. I think not - there is quite a lot going on there. I'll look for a close-up of this area so I can try to reproduce it accurately.

The black rectangle would be right for early PR.9's but you're right nothing like the later mod sate, The panel in the photo is the radio altimeter Mk.6A type 7165

 

Moving over to the area between the fuselage and the port nacelle, can I assume that the two rectangles are for GPS? If so, I can purloin some leftover decals from my recent Sea Harrier build.

That's the Doppler transmitter-receiver and antenna assembly type 5841-99-0859  

 

The two long streaks inboard of the nacelles look to be coming from two exhausts or vents of some sort forward of the landing gear doors. These are not replicated in the Airfix kit. Xtrakit have a tiny bump at that spot.

I'll look that up in the airframe AP and get back to you if not but it looks like a hole in the following photo circled in red

 

Xtrakit also have a small rectangular inlet that stands proud of the surface, on both sides forward of the gear doors. I don't see this in any of the above photos, except maybe on the last one forward of the white square stencil. Are these on XH134 in her retirement scheme, assuming they're real? 

is this it bill in red again

PR9%20underside_zpsgigrzrhf.png

 

 

Airfix have moulded a slight lip that runs along the entire bomb bay door cover. In the photos above, I can see portions of it, but it's not clear to me if this is as Airfix have moulded it. Xtrakit have this feature, much more pronounced - almost like a strake, but only along the rear half of the bomb bay. Forward of that, there is no "lip" but they have included some panels that stand proud of the surface, like strengthening plates.

You can see the rain channel above flair bay doors this as you can see does not extend to the fuel tank

Airfix have provided two sets of bomb bay doors which look to be for two different camera setups. The one that I'll use for XH134 has a curved cylindrical clear part that goes over an opening near the front of the bomb bay doors (cover?). This doesn't appear on any of the above shots, so I guess I can just paint it over.

Yes that's fine

 

There are three strakes on each side of the belly, just in front of the round camera window. Xtrakit have moulded these nicely, Airfix include them as engraved panel lines and only on the starboard side. Based on the above photos, Xtrakit is correct and I'll need to add the strakes.

These are crash strips, part of the fire suppression system, I will find a better photo but if you look in the PR.9 album on my site there is some good close ups of them  

 

Sorry for all this, just trying to figure out what needs to be on the model and what doesn't. 

No problems Bill, the Canberra is a very big and complex subject that takes some getting your head around 

 

 

There are a few things I can try. Airfix have moulded the rudder hing joint on the fuselage nicely concave, so that you can position the rudder where you'd like. It will make for an interesting sand and fit session! I'm sure we'll work something out.

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/16/2017 at 13:23, CedB said:

I'm no expert but looking at the rudder shot:

there seems to be a bigger gap at the bottom of the rudder's leading edge than the top? IF you sanded the rudder's leading edge do you think it might 'swivel' into place?

 

On 2/16/2017 at 14:30, keefr22 said:

It also looks to me that the base of the rudder is too wide Bill - if you project the line of the trailing edge down it looks like it will finish way behind the small fairing below the rudder - unlike the real thing;

 

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/wallpapers/canberra/canberra_02_1280.jpg

 

Or is it maybe the rudder's trailing edge angle is too shallow...

 

On 2/16/2017 at 14:57, canberra kid said:

This should be a fairly accurate drawing :) I always use the kit rudder, it's a pain filling all the panels but it fits and looks ok to me 

 

Is better, no?

 

IMG_1122

 

Yes, you too can enjoy the happy days brought to you by the modern miracle of coated abrasives! Whether you're into aluminum oxide or silicon carbide, there's a pile of resin dust waiting for you. Please remember to wear your mask - liquid resin is toxic, and breathing its dust can give you a whole pile of upper respiratory ailments! Disclaimer - no styrene was harmed for this demonstration. 

 

On 2/16/2017 at 15:37, canberra kid said:

is this it bill in red again

 

That's the one! Is it just on one side? Xtrakit have it on both sides, and they've moulded it backwards. It looks like an exhaust in that photo; Xtrakit have it as an intake. 

 

"The panel in the photo is the radio altimeter Mk.6A type 7165" - that photo is a pretty good close up of it. I'll have to figure out some way to re-create that. Maybe print my own decal or something. 

 

I'll also have to remove the rain channels that are forward of the bay doors. Get out that sandpaper again! I'm not sure what you call them, but the features that appear along the edges of the forward fuel tank look to be slightly proud of the surface, and therefore could be fashioned out of Bare-Metal Foil. It's a thought, anyway.   :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is better yes too Bill

 

I try never to sand file or otherwise abrade resin 'bits' if at all possible

 

I usually hack any excess away with a suitable knife, my old brass handled Swann-Morton with a number two blade is inexorable with resin and a 10A blade in a scapel isnt too bad either

 

Just slice it away 'til you get down with the bit you wanted, the size-u-like!

 

;)

 

But  when sanding is unavoidable use wet sandpaper kept wet

 

I am keeping quiet and enjoying every inch of this, things you learn about Canberras huh  :)

 

All those mucky holes underneath, who'da...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, keefr22 said:

Is better, yes!

 

Wot he said - perfect!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

 

 

Is better, no?

 

IMG_1122.jpg

 

Yes, you too can enjoy the happy days brought to you by the modern miracle of coated abrasives! Whether you're into aluminum oxide or silicon carbide, there's a pile of resin dust waiting for you. Please remember to wear your mask - liquid resin is toxic, and breathing its dust can give you a whole pile of upper respiratory ailments! Disclaimer - no styrene was harmed for this demonstration. 

 

 

That's the one! Is it just on one side? Xtrakit have it on both sides, and they've moulded it backwards. It looks like an exhaust in that photo; Xtrakit have it as an intake. 

yes Bill they are on boath wings. 

 

"The panel in the photo is the radio altimeter Mk.6A type 7165" - that photo is a pretty good close up of it. I'll have to figure out some way to re-create that. Maybe print my own decal or something. 

 

I'll also have to remove the rain channels that are forward of the bay doors. Get out that sandpaper again! I'm not sure what you call them, but the features that appear along the edges of the forward fuel tank look to be slightly proud of the surface, and therefore could be fashioned out of Bare-Metal Foil. It's a thought, anyway.   :)

yes they are raisd,they are brackets for holding the fuel tank. If that's what you are refering too?

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PR9%20underside_zpsgigrzrhf.png

 

What a glorious photograph, so much going on! And look at all those fasteners! You going to fit all those??:winkgrin:

 

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's perfect Bill, better than the kit rudder.

 

All those details.

This is why the Xtrakit PR.9 is so much better out of the box. 

I said previously that I thought I saw that John Adams/Aeroclub was involved with the research on that kit, it's in the forward on the instructions sheet.  Not only is he a master at accuracy in model making (especially measurements), but also served time on Camberras including PR.9s.

You mentioned that the Xtrakit wing top halves being flat.  Remember 2 degs of dihedral are from the wing/fuselage join, the extra two degrees is from the engine nacelles.  The bottom wing halves incorporate the outer extra dihedral and when the two halves are joined they do come true.

The kits surface details (even the raised panels strengthening plates etc) are superb in comparison to the Airfix toy like look, I think some bits may have had to be simplified though, either by  misinterpretation, or for production reasons, such as those two underwing outlets you mention.

 

Be interesting to know what the two outlets ahead of the nose gear are? They look invisible, unlike the stains!

 

Superb shots again form John, generally PR.9s looked quite clean, but he has found some excellent examples of well stained aircraft.

 

XH134 in your chosen scheme would have been quite clean as it was completely repainted sometime in spring 2006, leaving service in July of that year.

 

One more minor thing that Airfix (& Xtrakit) left off, is the raised cover for the powered flying control on the port side of the fin/rudder.

 

Superb work though Bill and a methodical build, thought you might go brave with the tailplanes!

 

Edited by 71chally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, canberra kid said:

yes they are raisd,they are brackets for holding the fuel tank. If that's what you are refering too?

 

I believe so. Thanks!

 

2 hours ago, moaning dolphin said:

What a glorious photograph, so much going on! And look at all those fasteners! You going to fit all those??:winkgrin:

 

It is a great shot, isn't it? As far as all those fasteners go, well, er...no.     :) 

 

2 hours ago, 71chally said:

That's perfect Bill, better than the kit rudder.

 

All those details.

This is why the Xtrakit PR.9 is so much better out of the box. 

I said previously that I thought I saw that John Adams/Aeroclub was involved with the research on that kit, it's in the forward on the instructions sheet.  Not only is he a master at accuracy in model making (especially measurements), but also served time on Camberras including PR.9s.

You mentioned that the Xtrakit wing top halves being flat.  Remember 2 degs of dihedral are from the wing/fuselage join, the extra two degrees is from the engine nacelles.  The bottom wing halves incorporate the outer extra dihedral and when the two halves are joined they do come true.

The kits surface details (even the raised panels strengthening plates etc) are superb in comparison to the Airfix toy like look, I think some bits may have had to be simplified though, either by  misinterpretation, or for production reasons, such as those two underwing outlets you mention.

 

Be interesting to know what the two outlets ahead of the nose gear are? They look invisible, unlike the stains!

 

Superb shots again form John, generally PR.9s looked quite clean, but he has found some excellent examples of well stained aircraft.

 

XH134 in your chosen scheme would have been quite clean as it was completely repainted sometime in spring 2006, leaving service in July of that year.

 

One more minor thing that Airfix (& Xtrakit) left off, is the raised cover for the powered flying control on the port side of the fin/rudder.

 

Superb work though Bill and a methodical build, thought you might go brave with the tailplanes!

 

Thanks, James. I had noticed the cover on the port side of the rudder, I included it in my list on page 3 as the "missing rudder actuator." Now I know what it's really called.   :)

 

I had another look at the Xtrakit wings - in my sample, both port and starboard, the wings are dead flat - top and bottom. I'm not surprised at such inconsistency since it's a short run kit, and they tend to have variability. Your kit may be different. I had another look at Brett Green's build of the Xtrakit PR.9 over at [censored] and the third photo down shows that his wings were pretty flat too. He even mentions using the main landing gear wheel wells to set a slight dihedral to the entire wing. He did a nice job building the kit, don't you think? It's his build that made me want to do this retirement scheme. 

 

I agree that that the surface detail on the Xtrakit version is beautiful, really well done. I've stated that several times in this build. I'm using it as a template of sorts to try and improve the Airfix kit. I will build the Xtrakit some day - I think I mentioned that I'd like an all-silver one. That will be a beauty! The box says that Sword made the kit - and it has that characteristic smooth, very shiny finish. Sword does a great job with their panel lines - nicely restrained for 1:72 scale. 

 

Yeah, I chickened out on the tailplanes. I may be insane, but I' not crazy. Sorry!   :( 

 

 

So, next silly question. I think I see what look like static dischargers on the tailplanes and vertical fin - how many are there and how long are they? 

 

Cheers,

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to my pics of XH134, six on each half of the tailplane, and four on the upper rudder.

There's also four on each wing tip trailing edge and one per aileron.

 

Also, there appear to be two shallow strakes where those stains appear to be ahead of the nose wheel bay, and two similar just aft of the weapons/camera bay

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, 71chally said:

According to my pics of XH134, six on each half of the tailplane, and four on the upper rudder.

There's also four on each wing tip trailing edge and one per aileron.

 

Also, there appear to be two shallow strakes where those stains appear to be ahead of the nose wheel bay, and two similar just aft of the weapons/camera bay

 

That's what I get too James, Bill if you look at the drawing I posted earlier on showing the position vortex generators but it also shows the position of the static wicks if you scale it to 1/72 it should give a good indication of the length too.

These are some photos of XH171 at cosford which show the crash strips and the hole in the wing in front of the main wheel well which I believe is connected to the wing mounted generators. I't an interesting comparison between an early PR.9 and the later version.  

 DSC01936_zpsedhehtsg.jpg

DSC01937_zpssl5m46uz.jpg

DSC01938_zpsxb97meuq.jpg

John

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 71chally said:

That's perfect Bill, better than the kit rudder.

 

All those details.

This is why the Xtrakit PR.9 is so much better out of the box. 

I said previously that I thought I saw that John Adams/Aeroclub was involved with the research on that kit, it's in the forward on the instructions sheet.  Not only is he a master at accuracy in model making (especially measurements), but also served time on Camberras including PR.9s.

You mentioned that the Xtrakit wing top halves being flat.  Remember 2 degs of dihedral are from the wing/fuselage join, the extra two degrees is from the engine nacelles.  The bottom wing halves incorporate the outer extra dihedral and when the two halves are joined they do come true.

The kits surface details (even the raised panels strengthening plates etc) are superb in comparison to the Airfix toy like look, I think some bits may have had to be simplified though, either by  misinterpretation, or for production reasons, such as those two underwing outlets you mention.

 

Be interesting to know what the two outlets ahead of the nose gear are? They look invisible, unlike the stains!

 

Superb shots again form John, generally PR.9s looked quite clean, but he has found some excellent examples of well stained aircraft.

 

XH134 in your chosen scheme would have been quite clean as it was completely repainted sometime in spring 2006, leaving service in July of that year.

 

One more minor thing that Airfix (& Xtrakit) left off, is the raised cover for the powered flying control on the port side of the fin/rudder.

 

Superb work though Bill and a methodical build, thought you might go brave with the tailplanes!

 

I couldn't agree more about John, that's why I think who ever did the design work on the kit ether ignored what he said regards detail, or he had no input on that other than the measurements. I can't see John getting it so wrong on the detail.

John 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More on the black squers under the wing, "SEM/ CAN/232 introduces a Vicon 78 series 445 countermeasures capability against a variety of infrared and radar seeking air or ground launched missiles and anti-aircraft artillery systems. Manual control of the system allows the aircrew to launch decoy chaff and flares when a threat is detected visually or electronically."

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, canberra kid said:

I couldn't agree more about John, that's why I think who ever did the design work on the kit ether ignored what he said regards detail, or he had no input on that other than the measurements. I can't see John getting it so wrong on the detail.

John 

 

It seems to match the photos pretty well. What do you think is wrong?

 

Cheers,

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

It seems to match the photos pretty well. What do you think is wrong?

 

Cheers,

Bill

The Extrakit is close on the wings, better than Airfix, but still not bang on but I'm possibly being pedantic? It's the fuselage that bugs me the most, I'd like to know what plans/drawings Airfix and Extrakit used for the external skin stiffener, they both have it too far up the fuselage. Extra kit have some nice detail like the beefing up on the under side of the tail planes, I guess any model can only be as good as the the info they are working from.

 

John    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, I have to agree with Bill on this.

I spent hours pouring over detail photos yesterday, and the Xtratkit parts and details match, in some cases incredibly closely.

Some of the minor details vary, such as the reversed outlets mentioned earlier, but at least they are there.

Even the interior is pretty impressive for a basic kit.

It's obvious that time was spent with a real aircraft (possibly from JA service?), where I can't see that Airfix did, certainly not the aft end of one!

 

Be interesting to know where you say they vary John, as I know you have an excellent library.

 

 

PS seeing your lovely shots of XH171 (in my favourite scheme!) I forgot that it was never fitted with the RWR bullets, interesting as it retired from service well after they had been introduced on the fleet.

 

Edited by 71chally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a detailed work here ! Full of great references and top quality information exchange !! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...