stever219 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Bill, go with the Pavla cockpit: the Airfix rendition applies to the B(I)8 and very early PR9 only. As a result of the loss of XH129 on a test flight, which resulted in the death of the navigator, the nose was changed to the one with which we are all now familiar and equipped with one of Martin Baker's finest. If you should ever want to build one of the very early jets I thnk Alley Cat do a conversion (certainly in 1/48th) which will save you having to chop up an Airfix Mk. 8 for its nose. John's link has got some very good photos of the front (nav's) cockpit. As an aside I wonder if the Xtrakit designers didn't factor in the 14" extra fuselage length of all of the PR Canberras and worked to the 65 foot-odd length of bombers and trainers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 On 2/3/2017 at 13:32, canberra kid said: Hi Bill I've had a look over the dimensions of both kits, they are both quite close in the key measurements give or take a wee bit, it depends how close you want it to be, if you want I can can give the figures. The Xtrakit is better on panel detail, on the fuselage at least, I've not looked over the wings yet. Unfortunately the Airfix kit is quite bad in this respect I've highlighted some of the bad points, the black lines are where the panels should be the red is where they are. THe thing bothe kits fail on is the rear fuselage strengthening plate again, I've marked out the correct position in black and the kit placement in red, I hope this helps and it's not too confusing? <snip> And on the Xtrakit the same problem with the fuselage strengthening plate, also the local strengthening for the ladder, which is a bit on the heavy side, not a big issue. <snip> John Thanks for this, John. Not confusing at all. The rear strengthening plate is proud of the surface on Xtrakit, but not on Airfix were it is just represented by engraved panel lines. I suspect it should be proud if it was added later? Here is how I compared the two - I started by aligning the leading edge of the fin, plus the bottom of the aft fuselage like so (you can easily see the error in the filet radius on the bottom of the Airfix fin): After doing this, the front end of the fuselage looks like this: Looking through the canopy opening, you can see that the nose gear opening is reasonably close between the two. Up front we see that the Xtrakit fuselage is shorter than Airfix - this could be compensated for in the length of the nose, but they're both about the same. So I reckon there is a small difference between the two. To be honest, if Xtrakit had the vortex generators, I would build it. Especially since I think Airfix also messed up where the tailplanes attach to the fuselage. That's a real tough one to fix. John, do you have any dimensions for the individual vortex generator strakes? I suspect that they'd be really small in 1:72 but maybe there is a way to make them and add them to the Xtrakit model. Did I actually just write that? Cheers, Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Navy Bird said: Or maybe I should just build them both. That would be the most sensible solution! (I use the word sensible in the losest possible sense of the word) Martian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 56 minutes ago, Navy Bird said: John, do you have any dimensions for the individual vortex generator strakes? I suspect that they'd be really small in 1:72 but maybe there is a way to make them and add them to the Xtrakit model. Did I actually just write that? Cheers, Bill And equally sad Bill I do! I'll get back to you on it. I'd forgotten your cockpit question, as stever219says the Airfix interior is a direct carry over from the B(I)8, which is fine if you want to build the first 4 production PR.9's, one odd thing is all the drawings of the pilots cockpit that show the right hand side has the Nav's "crash seat" even right up to the last AP's. on the subject of the the cockpit, I'm not too convinced by the look of the pilots seat in the Pavla set, can you have compere with the photos of the seat on my site? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 On 2/3/2017 at 15:28, canberra kid said: I'm not too convinced by the look of the pilots seat in the Pavla set, can you have compere with the photos of the seat on my site? Is the PR.9 pilot seat the 3 CS (photo 13 of 222 in your ejection seat gallery)? If so, the Pavla seat does not resemble it. It looks most like the 2 CS (photo 18 of 222 in the gallery). The Pavla navigator's seat has a passing resemblance to the 4 QS (photo 10). Cheers, Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 10 hours ago, Navy Bird said: Is the PR.9 pilot seat the 3 CS (photo 13 of 222 in your ejection seat gallery)? If so, the Pavla seat does not resemble it. It looks most like the 2 CS (photo 18 of 222 in the gallery). The Pavla navigator's seat has a passing resemblance to the 4 QS (photo 10). Cheers, Bill Exactly Bill, that'swhat I was thinking. As far as I know there isn't a good 3cs out there. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I've had another go at measuring the two kits and they boath appear to fall short of the 66'8" by approximately 9" it's hard to be accurate without cutting the Airfix nose down the centre. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Popcorn stocked up, this is going to be a great show 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 In the interests of science I've cut the Airfix nose in half! the up shot is it works out at around 8" short. In the attached photo it looks like the RWR is over the edge of the page this is an optical illusion. I've tied to do the same with my Xtrakit 9 but seeing as the fuselage is together I can only guesstimate but it looks to be around a foot shy. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 If you use the Airfix kit will you do anything about the panel lines? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 On 2/3/2017 at 7:14 PM, Navy Bird said: To be honest, if Xtrakit had the vortex generators, I would build it. This is probably a really dumb idea (especially from one whose only finished model last year was an Airfix B(i)8 built, warts & all, straight OOB & who would therefore never even think of doing it himself) but instead of substituting the entire Airfix upper outer wing, would it be possible to cut out the panels containing the gennies & let them into the Xtrakit upper wing? It would mean that you wouldn't have any of the Airfix panel trenches sticking out like a sore thumb against the Xtrakit ones. As I say I wouldn't even dream of attempting it myself, but to a man with your skills Bill.... keith 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I think I'll quietly sneak up to the bar whilst all these dimensions are being debated....should be able to grab a beer without being noticed....... Ian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Aye I'll join you... I'll have a pint of mild and a packet of pork scratchings hopefully the packet when removed from the retail card behind the bar uncovers some more of if the lovely 'Miss Scratchins' and we can debate which is bestest the Austin Allegro or Austin Princess... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 On 2/4/2017 at 04:23, woody37 said: Popcorn stocked up, this is going to be a great show A show? Perhaps. Great? I wouldn't bet the crown jewels on it! On 2/4/2017 at 04:54, canberra kid said: In the interests of science I've cut the Airfix nose in half! the up shot is it works out at around 8" short. In the attached photo it looks like the RWR is over the edge of the page this is an optical illusion. I've tied to do the same with my Xtrakit 9 but seeing as the fuselage is together I can only guesstimate but it looks to be around a foot shy. Thanks, that jibes with my conclusion that Xtrakit is a bit shorter than Airfix. However, I don't see the Airfix kit being short. The fuselage is 260 mm long (I placed it against a machinist's metric scale for a direct reading), the nose is 17.5 mm (digital calipers - no need to cut in half!), and the RWR is 4 mm or 4.3 mm (there are two optional parts), Adding these up you get 281.5 mm or 281.8 mm. This works out to 66' 6" or 66' 7" - if the real figure is 66' 8" then I would say that my copy of the Airfix kit is pretty close, just one or two scale inches short. I'm quite confident of these numbers. Yours could be different - fickle styrene and all. In any event, since I plan to have the nose open to show off all that nice detail in the Pavla resin, I don't think anyone will notice the overall length of the fuselage. Either one of the kits will serve my purpose (but I really like the surface detail on the Xtrakit...) On 2/4/2017 at 12:56, Plasto said: If you use the Airfix kit will you do anything about the panel lines? No doubt. Probably fill them in a bit with Mr. Surfacer. On 2/4/2017 at 18:26, keefr22 said: This is probably a really dumb idea (especially from one whose only finished model last year was an Airfix B(i)8 built, warts & all, straight OOB & who would therefore never even think of doing it himself) but instead of substituting the entire Airfix upper outer wing, would it be possible to cut out the panels containing the gennies & let them into the Xtrakit upper wing? It would mean that you wouldn't have any of the Airfix panel trenches sticking out like a sore thumb against the Xtrakit ones. As I say I wouldn't even dream of attempting it myself, but to a man with your skills Bill.... Oh, you're evil you are. Naughty, naughty, naughty...but an interesting idea nonetheless. On 2/4/2017 at 18:50, limeypilot said: I think I'll quietly sneak up to the bar whilst all these dimensions are being debated....should be able to grab a beer without being noticed....... Please, and while you're at it get one for me! On 2/4/2017 at 23:10, Plasto said: Aye I'll join you... I'll have a pint of mild and a packet of pork scratchings hopefully the packet when removed from the retail card behind the bar uncovers some more of if the lovely 'Miss Scratchins' and we can debate which is bestest the Austin Allegro or Austin Princess... Oohh, pork scratchings. We call 'em pork rinds over here, and I like mine with red hot sauce. And I always thought the Allegro had the reputation as the worstest, not the bestest? I spent last weekend in Maryland with my son, but now I'm back and can continue the "head scratchin' " to see how I proceed with this model. It really is starting to feel like another kitbash is coming on. Cheers, Bill 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 20 minutes ago, Navy Bird said: And I always thought the Allegro had the reputation as the worstest, not the bestest? Choosing between those two, it's a mighty close call as to which was worse...!! Keith 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Plasto, I'm not sure which way I would debate that...choose the best of 2 crap cars....hmmmm.... Bill, what'll it be? I have a feeling you'll be earning it! I haven't had a decent porky scratching in years, a packet of those is also on the cards! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 5 hours ago, keefr22 said: Choosing between those two, it's a mighty close call as to which was worse...!! Keith If I had to make that choice, I think I would chose to walk even though I have to use crutches , better chance of arriving at my destination! Martian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Mmmmm... I was attempting to draw a humorous parallel between BL's finest and the kits under discussion....... However some things are are best not discussed the Allegro, Dr Who (the Quarry years) and the Airfix Boy Scout Kit being a selection that springs to mind... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Epically bad car? Try the Morris Ital, a warmed-over Marina. And now back to our scheduled programme....... The Stig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 One of my friends Dad had a lime green Ital it had a black Vinyl roof and alloys... I remember being very impressed as my dad at the time had a Volvo 340 GL ( with vairiomatic gearbox) in a sort of insipid metallic brown.. I looked at the Ital and thought one day I'll own a car like that... However it never came to pass and I've had to make do with German, Swedish, French, Australian and Japanese cars and the odd Land Rover and an Austin Healey... Still I see you can now get a remade Series 1 Range Rover from some subsidiary of Land Rover for a vast sum so perhaps in the fullness of time they might start to remake other 70's classics such as the Maxi, Dolomite and 1800 'Land crab'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The vortex generators are just rectangles: http://www.militaryimages.net/media/raf-canberra-pr9-xh135.10186/full You could cut these from brass stock with a scalpel. If it were me, I'd draw a construction line on the wing with pencil, position the brass piece with tweezers and glue the brass on with medium CA applied with my fool proof acupuncture needles. You'll get a good strong bond, quickly and it's clean. You'd rattle through both wings in an hour or so I reckon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 43 minutes ago, Plasto said: .... so perhaps in the fullness of time they might start to remake other 70's classics such as the Maxi, Dolomite and 1800 'Land crab'. Just about everything is still available to make a full size brand new example of a true Austin/Morris/BL classic, namely the mighty Mini! True it would come in a kit of parts that you'd have to put together yourself, so some modelling skills are essential! Unfortunately the one we have is a 70's original, and different modelling skills are needed with those - namely filling, sanding, filling,sanding,filling, sanding, filling, sanding, filling,sanding,filling,sanding - primer & paint! Keith 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Ha I've had one of those I'd quite forgotten about it.. A Rover 1275 Cooper rego was H2KDO. BRG with John Cooper Bonnet Stripes and a straight exhaust. Not the worst car I've ever owned but............ Anyhow reasonably the poor old Canberra thread has been way laid. Having recently finished the Airfix PR9 and tweaked it here and there I personally probably wouldn't build another... But I think perhaps if you are getting serious about it a kit bash is possibly the way to go... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 2/7/2017 at 04:40, SovereignHobbies said: The vortex generators are just rectangles: http://www.militaryimages.net/media/raf-canberra-pr9-xh135.10186/full You could cut these from brass stock with a scalpel. If it were me, I'd draw a construction line on the wing with pencil, position the brass piece with tweezers and glue the brass on with medium CA applied with my fool proof acupuncture needles. You'll get a good strong bond, quickly and it's clean. You'd rattle through both wings in an hour or so I reckon. Thanks, Jamie. I've been thinking about ways to do this since I started this project. The generators are going to be really small in 1:72 scale (I'm sure those moulded on the Airfix wings are overscale, certainly in thickness) - here is another photo: When I see photos like this, I can understand why Xtrakit used decals! In 1:72 scale, the individual blades will be sub-millimetre I'm sure. @canberra kid can you tell us the actual size of the vortex generator blades? Also, I think I read that there were a small number on the bottom of the wing as well - can that be confirmed? After seeing this photo, I see another mistake that Airfix made. The large dark rectangle near the front of the nacelle (vent? intake? exhaust?) is on the starboard side of both engines. Airfix have this on the inboard side of both nacelles, so the one on the starboard engine is incorrect. Xtrakit have this right. I'll have to check, but I think Airfix also have the small oblong windows near the radome just a bit too high on the fuselage. Cheers, Bill 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 5 hours ago, Plasto said: Having recently finished the Airfix PR9 and tweaked it here and there I personally probably wouldn't build another... Just curious - why not? Fit problems? Too many errors? Panel lines? Something else? Cheers, Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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