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Brits abroad - British subjects in foreign markings Chat


Giorgio N

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  • 1 month later...

I fancy a go at this, I've always liked to produce models where the finish is a little "unexpected", shall we say?

I have 2 possible candidates, both a bit "iffy", a 1/72 Special Hobby Blackburn Roc, where one of the options is in Finnish markings*, and the same manufacturer's Folland Gnat F.1- the "British single seaters" boxing includes an option

for the Oscar EW-5894 Phallus from the movie "Hot Shots". This is in US markings.

Would either of these be eligible for this GB?

 

 

*Evidence is that these aircraft never flew over the UK in Finnish markings, the Blue Swastikas being applied then covered over for flight in this country, so that the Rocs for Finland flew in standard FAA camo with plain white discs in the

locations of the Finnish markings. It was felt that to fly in Finnish markings would attract AA fire! In the end, the Rocs were never delivered to Finland, so they never flew in Finnish markings. To me, this makes them a bit "iffy"

 

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9 hours ago, MadNurseGaz said:

I fancy a go at this, I've always liked to produce models where the finish is a little "unexpected", shall we say?

I have 2 possible candidates, both a bit "iffy", a 1/72 Special Hobby Blackburn Roc, where one of the options is in Finnish markings*, and the same manufacturer's Folland Gnat F.1- the "British single seaters" boxing includes an option

for the Oscar EW-5894 Phallus from the movie "Hot Shots". This is in US markings.

Would either of these be eligible for this GB?

 

 

*Evidence is that these aircraft never flew over the UK in Finnish markings, the Blue Swastikas being applied then covered over for flight in this country, so that the Rocs for Finland flew in standard FAA camo with plain white discs in the

locations of the Finnish markings. It was felt that to fly in Finnish markings would attract AA fire! In the end, the Rocs were never delivered to Finland, so they never flew in Finnish markings. To me, this makes them a bit "iffy"

 

A handful did fly with the censored markings and made it as far as somewhere in Scotland before being repossessed. There is one photo that I’ve seen where they appear to be in a standard (?) FAA camouflage scheme with a high demarcation line between the upper and lower colours but they did so with Finnish serials e.g. RO-143.

 

Unfortunately I can’t find a photo which can be linked to here, but if you google ‘Finnish Blackburn Roc’ it’ll turn up.

 

On that basis you can argue that they flew in ‘Finnish’ markings - just!

 

Trevor

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22 hours ago, MadNurseGaz said:

I fancy a go at this, I've always liked to produce models where the finish is a little "unexpected", shall we say?

I have 2 possible candidates, both a bit "iffy", a 1/72 Special Hobby Blackburn Roc, where one of the options is in Finnish markings*, and the same manufacturer's Folland Gnat F.1- the "British single seaters" boxing includes an option

for the Oscar EW-5894 Phallus from the movie "Hot Shots". This is in US markings.

Would either of these be eligible for this GB?

 

 

*Evidence is that these aircraft never flew over the UK in Finnish markings, the Blue Swastikas being applied then covered over for flight in this country, so that the Rocs for Finland flew in standard FAA camo with plain white discs in the

locations of the Finnish markings. It was felt that to fly in Finnish markings would attract AA fire! In the end, the Rocs were never delivered to Finland, so they never flew in Finnish markings. To me, this makes them a bit "iffy"

 

 

I had to think a bit about these subjects....

Let's start with the Gnat first. My initial reaction was that this is something belonging more to the world of movies, more similar in a sense to what-if than something real However after thinking better I came to the conclusion that the rules are clear, any British built or designed subject in service or in use by a foreign operator is eligible. The Hot Shots Gnats are British designed types used by a private US company for filming, so they fit within the rules and the spirit of this GB :smile:

Just a small note: IIRC the single seaters were Indian built Ajeet Mk.1. As these are a variant of the Gnat they are eligible so no problem here, however better check if there's any difference from a modeller perspective.

 

The Roc is a bit more complicated... in a sense they never served with the Finnish, so they would be excluded, however I guess they were bought by th Finnish, so they could be included. If as Trevor wrote they flew with Finnish registrations, they I'm happy to allow them, even if they only made one flight so registered

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13 hours ago, Jabba said:

Could be either Tornado version in Saudi markings.

 

Both sound good to me ! The F.3 in particular is very rarely seen in model form with Saud markings, but I admit that the GRs are sexier looking

 

13 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

I have an Airfix 1/48 Hawk with Finnish markings that would go well with the Finnish Hurricane I’ve nearly completed.

 

Trevor 

 

Good choice ! The Hawk is one of the greatest export stories in British aviation, it deserves to be recognised in this GB

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Thanks, Giorgio and Trevor, for your input.

Here is the well-known picture of Finnish Rocs, allegedly taken at Dyce near Aberdeen, which would demonstrate that these aircraft did indeed fly bearing Finnish serials.That's what I'll build . . .

ca349589-7a0e-4fe1-88f2-b9f6103316d6.jpg

. . . and in the knowledge that the Blue Swastikas were actually applied, then covered, mine will wear its Swastikas.

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5 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

A very unusual subject, looking forward to your contribution to the GB :yes:

Unusual, but available for 21.45 pounds (this is short run quality but full injection): 

https://www.aviationmegastore.com/gloster-vl-g28-gamecock-ii-ski-ms-112-broplan-ms-112-aircraft-scale-modelling/product/?action=prodinfo&art=70065

or second box on wheels:

https://www.aviationmegastore.com/gloster-vl-g28-gamecock-ii-ms108-broplan-ms-108-aircraft-scale-modelling/product/?action=prodinfo&art=68184

By the way there are other rare machines by Broplan...

Cheers

J-W

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  • 1 month later...

I'm sure Giorgio won't mind me bumping this one into the limelight again.

 

This GB starts in 2 1/2 months. 

 

For those who've already signed up, if you haven't fixed your subject, there's time to give it some thought, find those decals, source that kit, dig out and pore over those references.

 

For those that haven't signed up, why not?  Plenty of time to decide and the more the merrier!

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  • 2 weeks later...

There's still some time to wait before the start but I've started looking into potential subjects.

Now I will have to build one Italian marked aircraft for sure, I'm now choosing between a Spitfire and a Vampire. The Spitfire is tempting as I'm considering building the same aircraft in two GBs, once in British markings for the RAF Centenary and the other after being passed to the Italian Air Force.

The Vampire is tempting as I could build a "Vampire double" for this GB, with an Italian FB.5 and an Irish T.55 side by side...

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On 16/04/2018 at 9:25 AM, Giorgio N said:

There's still some time to wait before the start but I've started looking into potential subjects.

Now I will have to build one Italian marked aircraft for sure, I'm now choosing between a Spitfire and a Vampire. The Spitfire is tempting as I'm considering building the same aircraft in two GBs, once in British markings for the RAF Centenary and the other after being passed to the Italian Air Force.

The Vampire is tempting as I could build a "Vampire double" for this GB, with an Italian FB.5 and an Irish T.55 side by side...

I do like the sound of your double Spitfire build Giorgio, the same aircraft at different points in its life, been considering something of that nature myself with the Hawker Hunter and lately some Sea Harriers.

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4 minutes ago, Threadbear said:

Like to join this GB. Sure I can find something that tickles my fancy.......

Welcome to the throng!

 

We don't start for a while yet so plenty of time to find something.

Edited by Wez
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  • 4 weeks later...

I haven't participated in a GB before, but I'm thinking seriously about this one.  I have a couple of kits in my stash that I think would be worth a go:

1. Hawker Persian Fury - A very different machine from the RAF version, being powered by an air-cooled Bristol Mercury engine

2. BAe Hawk 209 of the Indonesian Air Force - The single seat light attack version

 

On 1/2/2018 at 7:39 PM, Giorgio N said:

My view on multinational projects is that I'd allow any country that was not part of the original consortium, I'd have said no to a French Jaguar of course but it's a yes from me on an Indian one ! More so as the variant used for export was based on the UK Jaguar rather than the French one.

How about one of the Tornado F.3s that were leased by Italy?  Although Italy was part of the Tornado consortium, the ADV was essentially a British project.

Edited by Possibly Apocryphal
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5 hours ago, Possibly Apocryphal said:

I haven't participated in a GB before, but I'm thinking seriously about this one.  I have a couple of kits in my stash that I think would be worth a go:

1. Hawker Persian Fury - A very different machine from the RAF version, being powered by an air-cooled Bristol Mercury engine

2. BAe Hawk 209 of the Indonesian Air Force - The single seat light attack version

 

How about one of the Tornado F.3s that were leased by Italy?  Although Italy was part of the Tornado consortium, the ADV was essentially a British project.

 

Please give it a try ! GBs are real fun with a lot of positive interaction among modellers. Both your ideas sound very interesting, personally  they are both subjects that have intrgued me for a long time.

 

The Tornado F.3 is something to think about.... yes the ADV was really a British project but the workload was still shared among the 3 participants, so every ADV had large structural parts made in Germany and Italy. From this point ov view I'd have to say no.

At the same time these 24 aircrafts were ex RAF, so may make sense to give them some more "Britishness" points for this reason... let's say that being a difficult subject,, I'll say yes if a modeller really wants to build one and has no other option 😁

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I´m building one ragwing Hurricane (HC456) in RAF DG/DE uppers and b/w lowers with Finnish markings, in the current Hawker GB of course. The other ragwing will be built in even more foreign camo and markings (HC-451) in the Finnish Warpaint. V-P

 

2018-04-21_05-08-14

 

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On 5/16/2018 at 6:59 PM, Giorgio N said:

 

Please give it a try ! GBs are real fun with a lot of positive interaction among modellers. Both your ideas sound very interesting, personally  they are both subjects that have intrgued me for a long time.

 

The Tornado F.3 is something to think about.... yes the ADV was really a British project but the workload was still shared among the 3 participants, so every ADV had large structural parts made in Germany and Italy. From this point ov view I'd have to say no.

At the same time these 24 aircrafts were ex RAF, so may make sense to give them some more "Britishness" points for this reason... let's say that being a difficult subject,, I'll say yes if a modeller really wants to build one and has no other option 😁

Thanks, Giorgio, I will give it a try.  My main reason for asking about the Tornado F.3 is that this rather beautiful set arrived in the mail yesterday:
265hfPc.jpg

 

But since I've already disclosed the fact that I do have other options, I'll leave it for another time.

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Hi,

Since I already did my Gamecock the most probable as my input remains: Belgian Avro 504 N (scrach conversion from 504 K), DH 9 (scratch conversion from 9A - or rather Polikarpov R1) and Spanish Vildebeest.

Regards

J-W

 

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So many choices out there.

 

The Airfix Hurricane with the Belgium option. Harrier in Spanish markings.  Tornado in Saudi markings. Etc. Etc.

 

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