Brits abroad - British subjects in foreign markings Chat

[Giorgio N]

Antoine, I understand your feelings and agree that really while a lot of less well known military forces are very interesting and a lot of small conflicts had quite an impact on the world as we have it today, these often go unnoticed. In a sense I can't blame the majority for not caring too much about anything that is not UK/US/Russia/WW2 and so on, afterall there's a reason why the nth F-16 of Bf.109 gets issued every year while we've never seen an injected plastic kit of the Marut, in the end people are more attracted to what they are familiar with. The Spanish Civil War is a good example, it's importance in the development of tactics and equipment used in WW2 was huge and the geo-political implications of that conflict also had a lot of influence to the events of WW2.. yet it's a very little known subject in most parts of the world, Britain was not involved so I guess very few in this Country know much about it, same for the US. There's another reason why it's seldom been discussed as in the end the same Franco that took power thanks to Hitler and Mussolini later became a good allied wthin NATO, so it was better to forget how he took power...Here in Italy it's a bit better known because we were involved but at the same time many prefer to forget this involvement as we were supporting a dictator and did quite a few nasty things to the civilian population... who knows, maybe if someone in Holliwood makes a movie about the events in the SCW people will go back studying this war (but then Hollywood may just make a mess of everything as they often do...)

 

There have been several proposals about GBs dedicated to smaller conflicts, with proposals that even included conflicts where UK forces took part, like Suez. They usually failed to attract that much attention but some GBs managed to get through. In a sense this GB is one of those that will allow modellers to show something about lesser known conflicts and countries, at least that's my hope as proposer and host of the GB.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Giorgio N

[Wez]

Giorgio,

 

Couldn't have put it better myself!  Thank you.

 

Back to this GB, I take it this GB also allows for captured equipment pressed into service by the enemy?  I'm thinking there was an awful lot of British equipment captured after Dunkirk for instance...

[Giorgio N]

1 hour ago, Wez said:

Giorgio,

 

Couldn't have put it better myself!  Thank you.

 

Back to this GB, I take it this GB also allows for captured equipment pressed into service by the enemy?  I'm thinking there was an awful lot of British equipment captured after Dunkirk for instance...

 

Absolutely ! I'm not familiar with WW2 use of captured British equipment, but antthing of the kind would be perfectly eligible.

I'm aware of the widespread use of captured British tanks by the Germans in WW1, where IIRC there were more units equipped with British tanks than with German made ones. These are of course also eligible.

 

I would also accept captured british types that were used for in-depth evaluation or as "aggressors", as I believe happened to some aircrafts in WW2. I believe that the more intensive the use the more the subject would fit in the spirit of the GB but I'm not fussy on this

[zebra]

I've just been reminded that it's about time I built something Australian so looks like my entry for this one will be a RAAF Beaufighter, probably a target tug. If I can get a second build in, maybe a DH Dove or the 2-seat Harrier if it hasn't been in another GB by then (there are 4 that I think qualifies for!)

[Wez]

7 hours ago, zebra said:

I've just been reminded that it's about time I built something Australian so looks like my entry for this one will be a RAAF Beaufighter, probably a target tug. If I can get a second build in, maybe a DH Dove or the 2-seat Harrier if it hasn't been in another GB by then (there are 4 that I think qualifies for!)

A TT Beaufighter would be a very welcome and colourful addition to he GB,'tis a good choice.

[Wez]

Any chance one of you fine fellows out there who's clever at that sort of thing can rustle up some group banners for us?

 

They should go into the Group Build Banners section in the Group Build part of the site.

[RMP2]

Would A Sepecat Jaguar in Indian Air Force colours be acceptable given that the Jag was an Anglo/French product?

I got me a resin nose and the decals n missile to build me one of these, you see -

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by RMP2

[Wez]

7 minutes ago, RMP2 said:

Would A Sepecat Jaguar in Indian Air Force colours be acceptable given that the Jag was an Anglo/French product?

I got me a resin nose and the decals n missile to build me one of these, you see -

 

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/jaguar/images/jag-im-jm252.jpg

Ah, the old Constant Thrust Variable Noise aka the Septic-cat Juggular, as far as I'm concerned it fits the bill, after all pretty much all of the export versions were supported by BAe with the training provided by the RAF in the case of Jordan and Nigeria.  It's in (unless the big boss vetoes it, but I doubt he will).

 

Just got me the Duke Hawkins book on the Jag, it features Indian jets.

[RMP2]

Cool., thank you. Group builds tend to inspire me and get things done through... whats the word..... Guilt!

 

Pretty sure no export sales were made by France of the Jag, think we all know the story there though.
 

Ill double check the box and make sure Ive got all I want/need.

 

PS - I think you mean Oman.

 

Cheers!

Edited December 31, 2017 by RMP2

[Wez]

19 hours ago, RMP2 said:

Pretty sure no export sales were made by France of the Jag, think we all know the story there though.
 

Ill double check the box and make sure Ive got all I want/need.

 

PS - I think you mean Oman.

 

 

I seem to recall reading that Dassault were more interested in pushing Mirages than the Jag.

 

You're right about Oman rather than Jordan

[Max Headroom]

France did try and sell Jags to Kuwait and Iraq but neither came to anything. Other than that, all marketing efforts were British led.

 

After Breguet’s take over by Dassault, the latter’s attitude seems to have been why try and sell something only half French? So Iraq and Kuwait ended up with Mirages.

 

Trevor

[Giorgio N]

My view on multinational projects is that I'd allow any country that was not part of the original consortium, I'd have said no to a French Jaguar of course but it's a yes from me on an Indian one ! More so as the variant used for export was based on the UK Jaguar rather than the French one.

I find Indian Jaguars very interesting subjects, particularly the M variant with its radar. Lokking forward to this !

[RMP2]

10 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

My view on multinational projects is that I'd allow any country that was not part of the original consortium, I'd have said no to a French Jaguar of course but it's a yes from me on an Indian one ! More so as the variant used for export was based on the UK Jaguar rather than the French one.

I find Indian Jaguars very interesting subjects, particularly the M variant with its radar. Lokking forward to this !

 

Cool, thanks for that Georgio, makes sense and is appreciated.

 

One thing if I may though - the Jaguar M was the French carrier experiment version, the Indian Agave radar verion was/is the IM (chisel nose IAF version being the IS)

As an aside, Ive also got a Nigerian BN 2 seater planned, but I wont attempt two at once, especially as this one is the good ol Kitty Hawk.

 

Id best go check that Indian box for all the bits!

[Giorgio N]

4 minutes ago, RMP2 said:

 

Cool, thanks for that Georgio, makes sense and is appreciated.

 

One thing if I may though - the Jaguar M was the French carrier experiment version, the Indian Agave radar verion was/is the IM (chisel nose IAF version being the IS)

As an aside, Ive also got a Nigerian BN 2 seater planned, but I wont attempt two at once, especially as this one is the good ol Kitty Hawk.

 

Id best go check that Indian box for all the bits!

 

You're of course right, my mistake!

I should know as I often mentioned the Aeronavale Jaguar M in discussions on real aircrafts (being quite critical of the type).

 

The same approach would be valid for example for the Tornado, a German one would not be eligible but a Saudi one is.

I have to think about the Sea King... it's originally an American type, but the British variants are quite distinctive, so maybe a Westland built variant used by a foreign country could be considered eligible

[whiskey]

pretty interesting paint job on the Omani Jags.

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by whiskey

[RMP2]

15 hours ago, whiskey said:

pretty interesting paint job on the Omani Jags.

 

 

 

It is indeed, but I have one in that scheme.

The Omani Jags got a new scheme fairly recently -

http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/7/7/2/2225277.jpg?v=v40

[Giorgio N]

3 hours ago, RMP2 said:

 

It is indeed, but I have one in that scheme.

The Omani Jags got a new scheme fairly recently -

http://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/7/7/2/2225277.jpg?v=v40

 

I like that !

[RMP2]

34 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

I like that !

I do too, but decals to suit arent available and I hate 3 colour camo schemes too. Besides, the old scheme is a classic. Thats my excuses anyway.

[whiskey]

Reminds me a lot of the SU-25 with the Jaguar in that scheme for some reason

[Roland Pulfrew]

On 31/12/2017 at 6:27 PM, RMP2 said:

Group builds tend to inspire me and get things done through... whats the word..... Guilt!

Yep me too.  Looks like I was one of the original supporters of this GB so I need to start planning my life better and see if I can finally finish something before a GB end date (although being #13 on the original list on Page 1 isn't perhaps a good omen!). 

 

I have  number of suitable kits and a range of decals in the stash: Spitfire F22 in Rhodesian or Syrian markings, a plethora of Vampires, some Hunters, even one of the old 1/48th Airfix Buccaneers I've always wanted to finish in SAAF markings.  I think I might have a Jaguar in there as well and I really like the new Omani Jag scheme - what is it about the Omanis that they can buck the trend for grey-ness in camouflage (despite having dabbled with their Hunters and Strikies)?  

 

Decisions, decisions!! 

[Moggy]

For the fearless modeller:

 

Supermarine Southampton mk III. The Argentine Navy Southampton "HB-6" flew the Prince of Wales (the future Edward VIII) on a day tour of Montevideo (Uruguay's capital) during the Prince of Wales' visit to Argentina 1931.
 

There's a beautiful Silver Wings resin kit in 1/72

It's waiting for me in my stash; the fit is incredibly good - a Rolls-Royce of resin kits

 

Cheers - Moggy

 

 

[Giorgio N]

On 4/1/2018 at 12:22 AM, RMP2 said:

I do too, but decals to suit arent available and I hate 3 colour camo schemes too. Besides, the old scheme is a classic. Thats my excuses anyway.

 

I see they changed the tail markings, we'll have to wait for some company to issue a decal sheet. The original scheme was very classy anyway, I'll be very happy to see one in the GB !

[Giorgio N]

4 hours ago, Roland Pulfrew said:

Yep me too.  Looks like I was one of the original supporters of this GB so I need to start planning my life better and see if I can finally finish something before a GB end date (although being #13 on the original list on Page 1 isn't perhaps a good omen!).  I have  number of suitable kits and a range of decals in the stash: Spitfire F22 in Rhodesian or Syrian markings, a plethora of Vampires, some Hunters even one of the old 1/48th Airfix Buccaneers I've always wanted to finish in SAAF markings.  I think I might have a Jaguar in their as well and I really like the new Omani Jag scheme - what is it about the Omanis that they can buck the trend for grey-ness in camouflage (despite having dabbled with their Hunters and Strikies)?  Decisions, decisions!! 

 

They all sound very interesting subjects, looking forward to your entry !

As for finishing something in a GB, I'm with you on this, I rarely manage to finish anything, I've failed even in the couple GBs I hosted in the past, I'll have to try hard to finish something this time at least !

[Giorgio N]

3 hours ago, Moggy said:

For the fearless modeller:

 

Supermarine Southampton mk III. The Argentine Navy Southampton "HB-6" flew the Prince of Wales (the future Edward VIII) on a day tour of Montevideo (Uruguay's capital) during the Prince of Wales' visit to Argentina 1931.
 

 

There's a beautiful Silver Wings resin kit in 1/72

It's waiting for me in my stash; the fit is incredibly good - a Rolls-Royce of resin kits

 

Cheers - Moggy

 

 

 

That's a great idea ! Not for me as I'm not good at biplanes, but would love to see it built

This is the kind of things I had in mind when I proposed this GB, unusual subjects and markings, and this even comes with a good story. Great stuff !

[gingerbob]

On 11/30/2017 at 4:22 AM, Giorgio N said:

The Harrier is one of the aircrafts that British enthusiasts are most proud of, and with good reasons ! The type may not have seen a huge export success but it was sold abroad in some decent numbers. The USMC is the best known foreign user but Spain also used the type, later selling their AV-8S to Thailand when they received the newer AV-8Bs

 

Oh dear, if I ever knew that Thailand flew Harriers, I've clearly forgotten.  I'm suddenly thinking that I might have to build that Monogram Harrier my friend gave me after all!  Quick, somebody tell me all the mods I'd have to make to the kit to represent a Thai bird...