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caterhamnut

MFH 1/12 Jaguar XJR-9

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 Latest kit from MFH - this will be another sleeper - got plenty on the go, but if anyone is interested on what is in the box of this latest 1/12 offering from MFH...

New box design!

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Quite a few plastic parts

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Grrr - my pet MFH hate...delicate, thin parts, wrapped in tight cling film.

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Another minor point - MFH include templates for cutting out ali-foil, masks etc etc - but you have to cut them out yourself - which is no problem, except they are printed within the instruction booklet - ie: they have other stuff on the back - so you have to copy and print your own. No big deal if you have a printer etc, but be nicer for these to be supplied on a separate sheet of paper.

Red circle shows a useful visual guide to all the similar pipe fittings you have to sort through...

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This will be fun!

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Decals...

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Lovely detailed PE parts...

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Detail parts...

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Big canopy to trim...

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Body is huge! Full size keyboard behind for scale...

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....so, a very quick over view. I am sure someone will start this soon. I'll probably do my usual and start with the engine shortly....

cheers

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Oh man this is the car I want from mfh the most from all of the stuff they have bought out but I can not pursued my other half £600ish is a good price (I know it is but she won't think so ). Either way I will be watching/ drooling over this thread. 

 

 

Shaun 

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Magnificent kit to be sure 'Nut, but a question; how do you find the parts fit of these top-line MFH's? The plastic, resin and metal; no warps or parts mis-matches except the soft white metal I assume?

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Happy to see a new kit starting ! previous one was a feast for our eyes :)

 

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Don't hold you breath - I haven't actually finished anything yet!! lol - the BT52 is close...

Fit seems to be very good Codger - but the kits I am doing from MFH are pretty new - I am sure they are better than old - the BT52b has just 'gone together' very well - one or two little tweaks of course, but not bad at all. I don't have years if experience to compare with other makes. The resin parts are very sharp, and it seems to be only the thin rod/bar metal stuff that requires tweaking sometimes...

I think the older MP 4/4 kit is going to require a little more fettling - but not got that far yet!

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Caterhamnut, I was hoping you would post something. As the worlds foremost expert on MFH kits, do you think you could answer a couple of questions for me? Do you use CA for all your builds? What other glue do you use? I have just bought a dremel to polish the metal parts, I've heard it can get grubby unless you use a varnish.. have you found that to be true? and lastly, I am thinking of polishing the metal parts of some of my kit and just adding an oil based wash. Do you think this would work okay? Thanks for any help you can give. I think your builds are awesome :)

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Firstly, many thanks PC2012!

However - genuinely -  I am a mere beginner compared to many of the guys on here - seriously, there is some phenomenal talent around - I look to them for tips and inspiration, and am still very much learning! I want to model 'cleaner' - I want to learn how to use oils like Suber, to apply weathering like Little Andy etc etc - all I am doing is taking more pictures than some, and hope some of it helps or inspires people to try anything!

I am making mistakes all along, and learning - BT52b is first time I have used Zero paints - need to improve that whole process, but liking them so far - so if I can pass on how to avoid the same mistakes I have made, then cool....

SO - I can tell you MY experience, but by no means take it as gospel - there is always more than one way to do things, and you will develop your own as well - either by accident or otherwise! :)

 

So far, I have just used CA, yes. If I needed more strength or build up, I guess I would use at two-pack like Araldite (UK)

I found the dremel with a BRASS wire wheel (not steel) very effective at cleaning - but it gets to be a pain with the really small parts, where if it catches it can fire them across the room! You still need to clean off flash, and gently sand (or fill) any marks you don't want...I am fortunate to have been able to buy a magnetic ring polisher - the ones that spin parts around in water with steel pins, to polish the metal. It is a 250 quid investment, but as it seems I am making a lot of MFH kits, with many many tiny parts, I deemed it worth it. The majority probably hand finish, and that works fine. But when I saw the size of the fittings on a 1/43rd scale MFH F1 car, I realized I'd lose stuff too easily! The dremel is great - just don't 'press' too hard - biggest negative is the way it fires brass wire everywhere - I added some super glue around the ends of the wires where they are 'crimped' at the centre, which may have helped a bit...

 

So far I don't really have any 'bare metal' finishes on my models - I guess people mean they can tarnish - when I do use bare metal, I may use  some satin clear to protect? I also want to use oil washes on the bits, but have not tried yet - F1 cars are so clean!!

 

So happy to answer any questions about how I have done something, but I am by no means a guru yet! lol

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Hi Caterhamnut, yes I was going to ask what happened to the BT52. You've been a great help though, thanks for that. 😁

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Looks absolutely fantastic,no1 subject as far as I'm concerned I'll be tagging along when you start it .

Glynn

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On ‎29‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 9:57 PM, caterhamnut said:

Remember - I haven't even finished a kit yet!! :unsure:

I can identify with that!!!

 

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Caterham,

 

Thanks for posting all this, I have been thinking seriously about ordering that Jag kit....and it looks really good from your pictures.  Perhaps even better than the "normal" MFH kit.

 

We conversed a bit last summer on our concurrent builds of the Porsche 917K....have you done anything more with yours?  I finished mine a month or so ago, and I gotta say it fought me all the way.  It was my fourth MFH build and by far the most difficult.

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I've been rubbish! :)

I've got furthest with the BT52b - which I need to finish. I may well then start this so I can take pics of the 1/12 917k engine with the jag engine (as both Le Mans cars) - and then crack on with the 917 - especially now I have a little experience of using zero paints on the small amounts of F1 bodywork - that will give me more confidence for the large amount of 917k bodywork!!

Did you post any finished pics?

Anyone know which red to use for the 917k?

 

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wow - that looks brilliant.

You have the creamy color of the glass fibre/composite much better than mine - I left mine a little bit too clear, and then it was too late to change.

Like the weathering on the inner panels as well. Looks great.

 

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@Vinegaroon3 - that's a beaut. I want one but too many other things on. If I do ever (and it will be a while), would you be up for a discussion of the difficulties?

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That certainly looks like a nice kit. Love the XJR-9, I have both the Tamiya and Hasegawa kits sitting in my stash. Nothing this nice though.

 

You've got your hands full caterhamnut with all of these concurrent MFH builds going on if you start this one too.

 

I'm just waiting for the 917 to start up again.

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On 04/01/2017 at 9:23 PM, Vinegaroon3 said:

Here are a few.....

 

Like I said....I found it a difficult build

 

 

Mid%202%201%20of%201_zps45blyu9n.jpg

 

 

 

High%201%201%20of%201_zpsjdsheg09.jpg

 

Detail%203_zpskgamtftr.jpg

 

 

Hey Vinegaroon3, I'm building the 1/24th version of this kit, can I ask you how you got the finish on the fibreglass wheel arches, fan and engine inlets. Colours you used, application etc? Really interested to know.

 

Pm me if you'd rather discuss it that way rather than hijack this thread.

 

Looks superb BTW, great job.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Borez

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On 1/8/2017 at 10:51 AM, caterhamnut said:

Don't worry about any hijack - I'd learn as well!

 

 

I was reluctant to post more in the Cat's thread...since I kind of sidetracked it already.  But with his blessing...here goes:

 

The "fiberglass" parts in the kit are IMHO far too transparent compared to the real thing.  All I did was take advantage of the translucence of the parts and gradually tint them with thinned paint mixes.  Most of the "yellowish" tint was thinned mustard yellow....the same color one would use to paint late war German WWII armored vehicles...various paint brands all call it different things...but if you have done any armor at all you know the color I am referring to.  I just selectively sprayed a very thin mix of it (one side is sufficient since the parts are transparent and the aim is just to "tint" them).  The shaded spots were a very thin reddish brown/black mix of paint.  I just sprayed the thinned colors on very gradually, constantly referring to photos of actual 917s...concentrating the darker color in the corners and recessed areas with more of the yellow in the open areas.  The key is to apply thin layers, since I wanted the parts to keep a very slight translucence like the real thing.  You don't want to completely cover them anywhere with solid color.

 

Regarding the problems with the build (takes deep breath).......

 

The basic challenge is that the entire rear half of the car is a complex tubular frame structure.  The "tubular" parts that come in the kit are very soft white metal, and in my kit virtually all of them were bent.  The construction of the rear portion of the car consists of many, MANY steps, and is far too complex to have any hope of test fitting the integrity of the overall structure.  So all you can do is move forward, step by step, but there is absolutely no way to evaluate whether the parts are aligned correctly as you move along.  Since you will find yourself straightening many bent and very soft metal parts, the odds of misalignment are huge.  This is complicated by the fact that there is really no good way to securely glue the tube ends where they are supposed to go.  The gluing surfaces are just too small to hold well.  I tried both epoxies and CA glues.  I soldered the early ones...and that worked well....but as you move further along you are forced to work with painted parts so soldering is not really an option.  So, what happens:  As you progress with the structure, you are forced to constantly tweek and fiddle on it to correct minor mis-alignments so more parts can go on.  When you do this, time and time again, prior glued joints will pop loose.  And I mean over and over and over again.  On the real car, the structure is thoroughly triangulated to be as rigid as possible.  On the model...this means the structure does not want to bend to correct alignment issues....it wants to come apart.

 

Where this all really becomes critical, is that the fit of the bodywork is completely dependent on the tubular structure and attached components being 100% aligned and spaced as MFH intended.  But, as you build it, there is no way whatsoever to check alignment.  In my case the result was that the rear bodywork did not even come close to fitting on the chassis.  My engine was too high, and the fuel and oil filler caps were way off from aligning as they are supposed to with the holes in the body.  The only way to fix the alignment, would be to tear the rear chassis completely apart, undo months of work, and start over.  And your chances of getting it right the second time would really be no better than they were the first.  Maybe worse.

 

I realize in the pictures it looks like the rear bodywork fits decently....but that is only because I had to do massive amounts of modification to the rear engine cover to make it fit.  I had to extend the leading edge by perhaps 3mm, extend the lower edges by about the same amount, change the shape/location of the wheel openings, change the shape and location of the engine opening, and fill/re-drill the openings for the fuel and oil filler caps.

 

The frustrating part is that I don't really think there is any good way to avoid these problems.  It is an issue of tolerance stacking as you proceed with a complex assembly with lots of "slop", bent parts, and judgement calls as to how something should be positioned. There are no points of reference along the way where you can correct inaccuracies.  So one imperfection leads to another slightly greater one, and away you go....

 

I think these kits would be vastly better if the metal parts were cast from brass and had some rigidity.  They would also be easier to solder.  I'm sure MFH has their reasons why they don't use brass...perhaps cost....

 

Another issue:  The doors are heavy white metal parts and are designed to hinge and be movable.  I tried and tried and tried, but I simply could not get the doors to open/close and still look decent when closed.  The alignment and gaps were all wrong when closed.  I don't think this was just me, as I have talked to others who built this kit.....I am willing to say doing so would be almost impossible.  I finally resolved to glue them closed, which was kind of heartbreaking because I put a lot of work in the wiring and super-detailing of the cockpit.  This work is now more or less invisible.

 

Don't get me wrong....I love MFH kits and I am addicted to them...but it is certainly a love/hate type of relationship.  I realize they are not intended to be "easy".  I previously built the Porsche 956, the Ferrari F2008, and the Ferrari GTO.  All those builds had their challenges and issues, but none fought me like this build did (well, the 956 was very challenging, thinking back).

 

I had other problems with this one that were not the kit's fault.  For example, I clear coated with 2K urethane clear after all painting and decals had been done.  Turns out the hardener for the urethane had "gone bad" and the clear remained slightly tacky for weeks.  So I had to strip everything and start over, but that was nothing to do with the kit.  Mr. Hiro was willing to sell me more decals.... 

 

Any other questions, please ask....

Edited by Vinegaroon3

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26 minutes ago, Vinegaroon3 said:

 

I was reluctant to post more in the Cat's thread...since I kind of sidetracked it already.  But with his blessing...here goes:

 

The "fiberglass" parts in the kit are IMHO far too transparent compared to the real thing.  All I did was take advantage of the translucence of the parts and gradually tint them with thinned paint mixes.  Most of the "yellowish" tint was thinned mustard yellow....the same color one would use to paint late war German WWII armored vehicles...various paint brands all call it different things...but if you have done any armor at all you know the color I am referring to.  I just selectively sprayed a very thin mix of it (one side is sufficient since the parts are transparent and the aim is just to "tint" them).  The shaded spots were a very thin reddish brown/black mix of paint.  I just sprayed the thinned colors on very gradually, constantly referring to photos of actual 917s...concentrating the darker color in the corners and recessed areas with more of the yellow in the open areas.  The key is to apply thin layers, since I wanted the parts to keep a very slight translucence like the real thing.  You don't want to completely cover them anywhere with solid color.

 

Regarding the problems with the build (takes deep breath).......

 

The basic challenge is that the entire real half of the car is a complex tubular frame structure.  The "tubular" parts that come in the kit are very soft white metal, and in my kit virtually all of them were bent.  The construction of the rear portion of the car consists of many, MANY steps, and is far too complex to have any hope of test fitting the integrity of the overall structure.  So all you can do is move forward, step by step, but there is absolutely no way to evaluate whether the parts are aligned correctly as you move along.  Since you will find yourself straightening many bent and very soft metal parts, the odds of misalignment are huge.  This is complicated by the fact that there is really no good way to securely glue the tube ends where they are supposed to go.  The gluing surfaces are just too small to hold well.  I tried both epoxies and CA glues.  I soldered the early ones...and that worked well....but as you move further along you are forced to work with painted parts so soldering is not really an option.  So, what happens:  As you progress with the structure, you are forced to constantly tweek and fiddle on it to correct minor mis-alignments so more parts can go on.  When you do this, time and time again, prior glued joints will pop loose.  And I mean over and over and over again.  On the real car, the structure is thoroughly triangulated to be as rigid as possible.  On the model...this means the structure does not want to bend to correct alignment issues....it wants to come apart.

 

Where this all really becomes critical, is that the fit of the bodywork is completely dependent on the tubular structure and attached components being 100% aligned and spaced as MFH intended.  But, as you build it, there is no way whatsoever to check alignment.  In my case the result was that the rear bodywork did not even come close to fitting on the chassis.  My engine was too high, and the fuel and oil filler caps were way off from aligning as they are supposed to with the holes in the body.  The only way to fix the alignment, would be to tear the rear chassis completely apart, undo months of work, and start over.  And your chances of getting it right the second time would really be no better than they were the first.  Maybe worse.

 

I realize in the pictures it looks like the rear bodywork fits decently....but that is only because I had to do massive amounts of modification to the rear engine cover to make it fit.  I had to extend the leading edge by perhaps 3mm, extend the lower edges by about the same amount, change the shape/location of the wheel openings, change the shape and location of the engine opening, and fill/re-drill the openings for the fuel and oil filler caps.

 

The frustrating part is that I don't really think there is any good way to avoid these problems.  It is an issue of tolerance stacking as you proceed with a complex assembly with lots of "slop", bent parts, and judgement calls as to how something should be positioned. There are no points of reference along the way where you can correct inaccuracies.  So one imperfection leads to another slightly greater one, and away you go....

 

I think these kits would be vastly better if the metal parts were cast from brass and had some rigidity.  They would also be easier to solder.  I'm sure MFH has their reasons why they don't use brass...perhaps cost....

 

Don't get me wrong....I love MFH kits and I am addicted to them...but it is certainly a love/hate type of relationship.  I realize they are not intended to be "easy".  I previously built the Porsche 956, the Ferrari F2008, and the Ferrari GTO.  All those builds had their challenges and issues, but none fought me like this build did (well, the 956 was very challenging, thinking back).

 

I had other problems with this one that were not the kit's fault.  For example, I clear coated with 2K urethane clear after all painting and decals had been done.  Turns out the hardener for the urethane had "gone bad" and the clear remained slightly tacky for weeks.  So I had to strip everything and start over, but that was nothing to do with the kit.  Mr. Hiro was willing to sell me more decals.... 

 

Any other questions, please ask....

 

 

Excellent insight thanks. I had a first look and test fit of the rear frame of the 1/24th MFH 917 I'm building this afternoon and pretty much all of the problems you've pointed out in the tubular frame I'm already starting to see, my parts are bent way out of shape but on a much smaller scale. I'm already working out ways around this, but it's going to be complex feat trying to get this one together for sure.

 

My main issue is that the bulkhead/firewall rear frame and front end assembly are all held together with tiny 1.4mm screws that go all the way through holding the whole thing together as one part. But... if I build up the rear frame separately to get the engine in then there's going to be no way to get a screwdriver in to fasten these things together ( there just isn't the space ) but if I assemble it all now I have to literally prime and paint everything before I even start to assemble. And that, to me, just looks like a headache waiting to happen because I'll be going in blind with no test fitting of parts.

 

Plus on the 1/24th kit the instructions are a 3D exploded view that only shows one side of the car and frame and not the other. There's a lot of guesswork here.

 

Where there's a will there's a way though.

 

Anyway thanks for the insight.

Edited by Borez

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1 hour ago, Borez said:

But... if I build up the rear frame separately to get the engine in then there's going to be no way to get a screwdriver in to fasten these things together ( there just isn't the space ) but if I assemble it all now I have to literally prime and paint everything before I even start to assemble. And that, to me, just looks like a headache waiting to happen because I'll be going in blind with no test fitting of parts.

 

 

Exactly....that is one of the main factors that makes MFH kits so difficult.  Most of the assembly simply must be done with painted parts....going in blind.  So when corrections are needed, they need to be done on parts that have already been painstakingly painted.

 

I personally have never really found a way around that one.  The painting demands are far too complex to do once the assemblies are completed.

 

You wind up having to do endless precise touch-ups and re-paints.

Edited by Vinegaroon3

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@Vinegaroon3 Thanks so much for sharing that with us. Sounds a nightmare. Provides a good warning.

 

@caterhamnut Thanks for allowing the diversion.

 

Nick

Edited by NickD
Sorry.Lost track of who owned the thread. So many thread so little time.

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