Mitsubishi vs Nakajima Zero

[Spitfires Forever]

Does anyone (Nick?) know the reason for two different manufacturers of the Zero. Could it be a situation similar to that of the Corsair i.e. Voight, Goodyear, and Brewster, all manufacturers of the F4U? I am trying to figure out the proper color for the interior of a A6M2, as well as the exterior color for the A6M2 flown by W.O. Tetsuzo Iwamoto out of Rubaul in January of 1944. As an aside, wouldn't he at least be flying the M3 by then? Or, had resupply become too difficult by that time due to the intensifying submarine net? Anyway, any help would be appreciated on the colors.

Cheers

[VMA131Marine]

I think you've answered your own question. Mitsubishi couldn't produce Zeros fast enough so the IJN contracted with Nakajima to build them as well. This happened in the UK and the US with GM producing TBM (rather than TBF) Avengers and FM-1/2 Wildcats and Ford producing B-24s, among other things.

[Guest]

The two manufacturers had different shades of various interior greens, just wondering which one was used in the A6M2. And I thought Luftwaffe RLM colors were tough! No central ministry to coordinate and standardize the colors in Japan from what I understand.

 

Cheers

[iSteve]

One "exterior" colour difference is that the Mitsubishi version wheel wells were painted the same colour as the rest of the fuselage; Nakajima wheel wells were painted that funky metallic blue-green (Aotake). I've gone the mix formula way to come up with the right exterior colour (I presume we're talking Type 21) with varying degrees of success, but Tamiya makes a nice version XF-76 IJN Gray Green made for their 1/32 Zero. I would add a few drops of white or light gray for smaller scales (fabric surfaces even lighter).

Edited December 22, 2016 by iSteve

[Brad]

Don't forget one was longer than the other too.................hehehe

[Vanroon]

I suggest for colour matches, refer to the Nakajima only A6M2-N floatplane. It stands to reason that interior and equipment colours would be the same. 

From memory, one glaring difference in the external schemes between the manufacturers is the break between upper and lower colours. Mitsubishi underside colour followed the lower contour to the tail planes then rose abruptly to them, dropping again for the tail cone. Nakajima painted aircraft had that long arc to the tail plane from just aft of the wing trailing edge. 

Hope this doesn't muddy the waters. 

Grant

[Greenshirt]

Based on nfo I got from Nick, and other sources where he commented, this is what I use as a guide:

 

Quote

Mitsubishi vs Nakajima built:
Edited by Nick Millman, 30 May 2012 - 06:04 PM.

 

Depends what the picture shows!

 

Mitsubishi - wheel wells and undercarriage covers painted in the amber-grey airframe colour. Retracting yoke on small inner doors painted gloss black.  Struts gloss black with painted aluminium torque links and wheel hub covers. Tail wheel assembly amber-grey but tail wheel well aotake, covered with black or dark green canvas cover. Tail hook - front mounting and hook gloss black, shaft aotake or amber-grey depending on contractor. 

 

Nakajima - wheel wells and small inner doors aotake. Retracting yoke on small inner doors painted gloss black. Main wheel doors inner sides amber-grey. Tail wheel and hook same as Mitsubishi.

 

Original Nakajima Zero paint colour was a slightly more tan looking variant of amber-grey (approx to FS 26160 - 20277 and often reported as tan) but in late 1942 or early 1943 the paint colour changed to become closer in appearance to the Mitsubishi colour (approx to FS 26350 per my e-guide - which is still available). 

 

It is reported that Nakajima applied 75mm white borders to fuselage Hinomaru very soon after the Army-Navy Central Agreement in August 1942.

 

When the aircraft were painted with dark green upper surfaces at the factory Mitsubishi had a level demarcation along the line of the lower fuselage with the green extending beneath the tailplanes whereas Nakajima adopted the demarcation which sloped up from behind the wing root to the tailplane leading edge.

 

Some allege different dark greens and slightly different cowling colours with Mitsubishi being more greyish and Nakajima "pure black" but personally I wouldn't push that. Interiors varied but typically Mitsubishi were a yellowish olive green somewhat similar to FS 34151 (which is not quite yellow enough) and Nakajima a greyish-green similar to 34097 (which is slightly too green and not grey enough). 

 

How to tell the difference between manufacturers

Nakajima Zeros had the underside color "sweep up" to the tail surfaces, that's the easiest identifier. 

 

Colors (my preferences, influenced by Nick's insights)

Ameiro - olive gray, XF76 tends to represent a slightly weathered look, XF14 a more weathered look. See early zero article by Nick Millman for details. 

Aotake - emerald green or blue green depending on age. Probably started as a blue. Should be a clear-ish blue over a silver base. 

Red brown primer - a hull red is pretty good. 

J3 - or Amber Gray - dove gray when weathered, similar to 36492 or 36307 but grayer. RLM 63 but lighter. 

                                  Nakajima built               Mitsubishi built
Upper surfaces         Green XF11                        Dark Green XF70
Lower surfaces         J3 Gray                              Ameiro XF76
Cockpit                      Gray Green                        Olive Green XF71
Interiors                     Aotake                                
Cowling                     Blue Black (black)             (Blue Black) blue
Spinner                      Aluminum                           
Prop                           Polished Metal front          Red Brown primer on rear
Radio mast                A/f w black cap
Decking                     Blue Black
Wheel wells               Aotake                                Airframe color
Legs                           Gloss Black
Hubs                          Gloss Black
Fabric surfaces.        Gray

 

Links to builds where I used the gouge:

Revell Zero

 

Airfix Zero

Edited December 22, 2016 by Greenshirt
Added links

[Guest]

Thanks for all the help folks, some very valuable information. Now to try to properly mix the proper paints for the proper greens. Glad I know about the top and bottom demarcation for the top and bottom colors. The aircraft I will be making has the Nakajima paint scheme, so I will be following those instructions.

Cheers

[Nick Millman]

Just a couple of detail points to add here.

 

The spinner was painted aluminium over the red-brown primer and not natural metal finish. The prop blades were polished metal and their rear faces were painted a very dark maroon brown - not the same colour as the red-brown primer. Later the whole prop was painted the dark brown colour with the spinners either painted aluminium or painted the same black green as the airframe. The prop colour was dark enough to look black in some photos (sometimes reported as such) and is close to FS 20062 in appearance. RAL 8019 Graubrun (Grey brown) is similar but slightly darker.

 

The fabric surfaces were finished with dope to a slightly different formula which did not contain the anti-corrosive ingredients for light metal of the airframe paint - hence slightly greyer looking and not the result of fading. 

 

The various cockpit colours recorded for Zero variants are shown at my blog - June and August 2008 (you can lead a horse to water, etc.) I've just completed a 36 page report on the IJN dark green paints which is available via my blog and it compares most of the available hobby paints.

 

As for no central ministry - the IJN had centralised paint colour standards but procurement for aircraft factories depended on a localised paint industry so variance occurred. That was little different to the other major combatants.

 

Nick 

 

 

[Guest]

Thanks for all the help folks, and I went to your site Nick and found the color chips. Be assured I access your various sites, especially when it comes to lend lease aircraft. I imagine I will be using the early Mitsubishi Zero interior color as shown on your Japanese aviation website. I think  I have enough information now to at least approach a reasonable facsimile regarding the colors. I still use MM enamels so I will need to do a little mixing to achieve the colors needed. In future I will check your site before posting my queries on this site regarding Japanese aircraft. I did get lots of help and some very valuable information from fellow Britmodellers.

Cheers

Edited December 23, 2016 by Spitfire addict

[tempestfan]

On ‎22‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 3:32 AM, VMA131Marine said:

This happened in the UK and the US with GM producing TBM (rather than TBF) Avengers and FM-1/2 Wildcats and Ford producing B-24s, among other things.

...and Douglas and Lockheed-Vega producing B-17s, and Bell B-29s, and so on - but actually the production of Avengers and Wildcats was completely handed over to Eastern in order to enable Grumman to concentrate on the Hellcat, so those are a slightly different case.