some question on night fighter black Hurricanes

[Davide Calzolari]

..were them all only 20 mm guns?or any else armament?

 

 

how many of them were in that black camo ?

 

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Davide Calzolari

[Graham Boak]

In 1940, before the introduction of the 4-cannon aircraft, any Hurricane would be expected to fly night missions.  The 4 cannon armament was a bomber-destroying armament, and the additional weight of the heavy cannon made the type less agile in aerial combat, so it made sense to concentrate the variant in night fighter squadrons, although it was used elsewhere as well..  

 

The black (strictly Night) camouflage was required for RAF night fighters from November 1940 until the later introduction of the scheme of an overall Medium Sea Grey with Dark Green disruptive colouring on the top and sides.  Few if any Hurricanes remained in night fighter units in the UK at this time, although examples remained in the Middle East and the Far East.  Night intruder Hurricanes have been recorded in a green and grey camouflage with Night undersides.

[Troy Smith]

in this shot of  87 Sq in probably mid-1942,  most  are IIc's,  but LK-T looks to be a  IIa

 

note  the visible brush marks and crude outline to  fuselage roundel on  the upper colours, there are more pics of LK-R which shows  this very clearly

 

the very broad Dark Green camo band over the engine is of note as well.

 

more details  on Hurricane cam are here 

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/03-Hawker-Hurricane

 

these are main bits of relevance

 

 

HTH

[rossm]

Some 87 Squadron Mark 1s were painted overall black, including some of those that went to the Scillies. Aviaeology has at least one on their Vital Storm sheets. Will try to find some online references but the original Action Stations 5 has a photo of 87 Sqdn. Hurricane Is at St.Mary's in all black finish including LK.P (serial invisible).

[rossm]

26 minutes ago, rossm said:

Some 87 Squadron Mark 1s were painted overall black, including some of those that went to the Scillies. Aviaeology has at least one on their Vital Storm sheets. Will try to find some online references but the original Action Stations 5 has a photo of 87 Sqdn. Hurricane Is at St.Mary's in all black finish including LK.P (serial invisible).

 

As well as Ian Gleed's aircraft on Vital Storm pt2 there is also one on Vital Storm pt1 - an all black Mk. I of the 85 Squadron, pilot unknown, at Gravesend, late 1940 serialed P3119/VY-X.

 

Can't find a full reference yet but the above came from hyperscale

[Graham Boak]

There are also photos of (I believe) 3 Sq Hurricanes having been hastily repainted into Day camouflage for the Dieppe operations,and there was considerably peeling of the paint showing the black underneath.

[Troy Smith]

On 08/12/2016 at 09:07, Graham Boak said:

There are also photos of (I believe) 3 Sq Hurricanes having been hastily repainted into Day camouflage for the Dieppe operations,and there was considerably peeling of the paint showing the black underneath.

 

the scuffyness was pointed out here

 

note the variations in the styles of codes letters, some squared, some rounded, and differing heights, compare the 'J'  on  JX-I with JX-B behind

[Troy Smith]

On 08/12/2016 at 08:51, rossm said:

 

As well as Ian Gleed's aircraft on Vital Storm pt2 there is also one on Vital Storm pt1 - an all black Mk. I of the 85 Squadron, pilot unknown, at Gravesend, late 1940 serialed P3119/VY-X.

 

Can't find a full reference yet but the above came from hyperscale

multi quote playing silly sods...

 

 

 

Quote

On 14/08/2013 at 22:39, mackem01 said:

 

 

I usually watch these posts about colour while hiding behind my hands, so I'm loath to start one but I want to know.

I came across a three view of an 85 Sqn Hurricane that stated it was painted in "Night". So gents what is the actual

colour, and can it be had ready mixed?

Cheers.....

Dave

If it's an 85 Sq hurricane, it will be late 1940/early 1941, when they were being tried out as nightfighters, and pending R.D.M.2 , which is also referred to as 'special night'

there are a few pics about of 85 Sq hurricanes in overall black, like this

Note the scuffy finish, and the 6 exhaust pipes, pics of LK-A of 87 Sq, also shows these non standard exhaust stubs, possibly to try to lessen exhaust glare? No Exhaust shields are fitted.

I think there are a couple more pics in "Fighter Squadron At WAr" but mine is not easily accessible right now....it was done as

doube pack with Bomber Squadron at War..available on Amazon for 1p 

...plus £2.80 post 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighter-Bomber-Squadrons-at-War/dp/1856482464/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376526785&sr=1-7&keywords=fighter+squadron+at+war

The Ducimus Hurricane camoflage monographs says that R.D.M.2 use on Hurricanes was promulgated from 22nd November.

R.D.M.2 was famed for weathering badly and peeling off.

from here http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?73820-29-Sqn-Beaufighters-a-plea-from-the-USA&p=1158902#post1158902

Quote

Night was the introduced as the night flying camouflage colour from 1937, made from Carbon Black and Ultramarine pigments. This gave it a dark grey (gunmetal) appearance rather than true black. From Sept 1939 it was superseded by Special Night which consisted only of Carbon Black pigment of a larger size than that usually used in camouflage colours. This gave it a much more matt appearance sometimes described as ‘sooty black.’ Often referred to as RDM 2 or RDM 2a Special Night. The difference between RDM 2 and RDM 2a was chemical and it did not affect its appearance. It had two problems in service. First it tended to come off easily, often because of faulty application, and also the extra drag affected the performance of aircraft. Because of a shortage of Special Night it was sometimes applied over an ‘undercoat’ of Night. Such aircraft have a characteristic patchy appearance with shiny areas of Night where the RDM 2 had worn away.

and after some more searches.... from the IWM site

Quote

Squadron Leader James Wheeler, a Flight Commander of No. 85 Squadron RAF, gets into the cockpit of a Hawker Hurricane Mark I night fighter, 'VY-X', at Debden, Essex, for a sortie while taking advantage of the clear moonlit nights during the period of the full moon from 10-16 March 1941.

the other side of VY-X 

again, 6 stub exhaust, and what looks like a replacement canopy frame in original Dark Green paint.

The 'panel' under the tail I think is just an artefact of the photograph, at first I thought 'replacement panel' but it's too big.

By this point the underwing roundels should have been overpainted, 'B' type on fuselage and medium Sea Grey codes.

hard to tell, but the spinner might have been replaced by the later pointy spinner Hurricane Rotol prop more usually associated with the MkII.

blimey..is tha the time, i really must go to bed

HTH

T

Edit PS

If it was R.D.M.2/Special Night then figure doing it satin black, and the using something like the hairspray technique in high wear areas, and then using a really flat black or very dark grey over this, [eg tamiya NATO Black] and rub off on worn bits could look good and make for a visually interesting model.

 

 

Ian Gleed's

the broken 'A' is the result of a replacement fabric access panel, notice the stroke of the A is in the handhold

so have shifted all the codes back, and also the roundel. Note the oil streaks on the gear door as well.

The tail stroipes are probably pale blue, note the squadron leader pennant under the windscreen, which is pale blue and red

from, has some useful hints on painting black

HTH

[Work In Progress]

Six stack exhausts don;t reduce the glare, but it has glare shields anyway. They do increase the performance slightly.

[Rover420]

LF363 of the BBMF was painted in 85 Sqn colours a few (well quite a few) years ago. I wanted to build this beauty for ages, as I was on 85 during the Bloodhound years, in 1/48 scale but wasn't going to convert anything. Italeri came to the rescue just as I was getting a bit more confident. There are a few photos on the net of her in these colours. Night overall with the reduced visibility roundels in four positions with a standard fin flash. the codes were MSG. The earlier photo is representative of this. As we know, the BBMF are sticklers for accuracy in their schemes. On the model I have used spare six stacks from an ICM Spitfire Mkix and the canopy of an Airfix Hurricane. The original canopy got broke, stood on! Roundels and codes were masked with home made masks and sprayed. The hexagon was made from decal sheet sprayed with white enamel, acrylic kept cracking in the soaking stage. The fin flash comes from the Italeri sheet.

 

Sorry about the festive table cloth.