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Sprueloose

1/48 Trumpeter Westland Whirlwind

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I like the approach you're taking Terry. This aircraft really deserves better than Trumpeter achieved. Great work so far I hope it continues to progress favourably as Peggy an old neighbour of mine used to say. 

 

After looking it over when released I was consigned to a What-If? I shall give it another look. I have a set of Barracuda wheels in my box which suggests there is an error there as well.

 

Great work so far.

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20 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

if you don't have this, you may find it useful for camo and markings information, has patterns, markings sizes, etc etc

 

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/11-Meteor-Whirlwind

eg note comments on the scheme you are interested in

 

 

Given that Trumpeter's decals are wrong, you may wish to ask about for leftover Classic Airframes decals, though the 28 inch fuselage roundel is a tricky one,  it's an odd size (a 1/72nd 42 inch would be 28 inch in 1/48 though)

 

 

I tried to  find some better critique of the kit, if the Whirlwind project chaps say the plans you have are good them they are your best bet.

two members did post in this thread

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234952752-148-trumpeter-whirlwind-the-crikey-one/&

 

I'm surprised that brewerjerry has not posted on this thread, he a big whirlwind buff

 

HTH

T

Thanks Tony. I remember seeing that info about the camo and markings but it's nice to have the link again so that I can add it to the file. I got some masks for the markings as it was obvious that the roundels with the kit were not right. The mask set also has a mask for the serial numbers which great considering the heavy wear that P6969 shows. Plus I wanted to try painting the markings.

Thanks also for the thread about the kit. I will go through it and see if there is anything more that I can address.

Thanks for looking in.

 

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19 hours ago, SleeperService said:

I like the approach you're taking Terry. This aircraft really deserves better than Trumpeter achieved. Great work so far I hope it continues to progress favourably as Peggy an old neighbour of mine used to say. 

 

After looking it over when released I was consigned to a What-If? I shall give it another look. I have a set of Barracuda wheels in my box which suggests there is an error there as well.

 

Great work so far.

Thanks for the kind words.

I will look more closely at the wheels. I got a pair of resin wheels but frankly they didn't look much different from the kit except for not having to deal with the seam line. They weren't weighted, which was a big disappointment. 

 

 

Not much to show for a days work today. 

I worked on the rudder and it does deflect a bit which is nice. Filled the trench I created with spruegoo and then Bondo. Surprised that the piece hasn't melted under my chemical assault!

32226022002_1e1b11fb3e_c.jpg

 

Did some sanding and filling on the Fowler flap and then two coats of Mr Surfacer 500. Still needs work. And then scribing I guess.

 

32226021892_9309599bce_c.jpg

 

Also begain putting PE on the cockpit. The instrument panel is all very pretty but ..perhaps I can muck it up a bit like I did the last one. Putting on the PE was easier this time around. (remember this is the second time that I have worked this kit. I have two! ) So maybe I am learning something!. Or drinking less coffee and have fewer shakes! The little guide tabs attached to the trailing edges of the Fowler flaps need to be sculpted a bit. They are way too blobby.

 

32376127955_b71bcb137d_c.jpg

 

I also fit and glued parts of the nacelles. I woke up this morning with the connection linking the end caps (attached to the Fowler flaps) and the landing gear bay all set in my mind... But working with the styrene it seems too elaborate so I may end up just pinning it in place. The saving grace here is that because I re-cut the end cap the connection should be almost invisible as the nacelles really shroud it.

 

32376128235_af22400d4e_c.jpg

I had to modify the kit parts for the interior "floor/ceiling" of the nacelle and have reused the back bulkhead. Gluing it to my plasticard plug at the end. I have not found any photos of the interior of the landing bay yet. The kit provides some detail but it would be nice to touch it up a bit with something plausible. More to do!

 

Thanks for watching.

Terry   (it's raining!...It  will probably take a day or two for the snow to melt completely.)

 

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Another update. Not much to show but moving along..

Worked on the Fowler flap. More sanding and filling. Quite colorful with white plasticard, Bondo, Surfacer, and now Perfect Plastic Putty!

 

32355181226_0666d416ca_c.jpg

 

"Discovered" a trick for sanding this thing. I put a piece of double-sided tape on the good side and then put a sheet of wet/dry sandpaper on my little cutting block. Pressing the flap down onto the block gave me a nice straight, flat surface and the sticky tape kept the flap from slipping out from under my fingers. I can't take credit for this as I just read in some thread of someone using bits of tape rolled back on themselves to create double-sided tape. Anyway it worked a treat.

I shaped the little guide nubbins too:

 

32016998750_d1c14dc03c_c.jpg

 

Here is a picture of the actual thing:

 

32017176130_7785a9daa5_b.jpg

 

Closer, but no cigar Terry!

 

Next I did some work on the rudder. Sanding and giving it a coat of Mr. Surfacer 500. Sanding. Then I used the Proxon to remove some material on the port side of the main rudder to represent the concavity of it's surface there:

 

32355181296_1aa1844665_c.jpg

 

Finally I removed some of the reinforcement that would be in the way of the cockpit build:

 

31583423493_b69d084d54_c.jpg

I really can't stand the kit cockpit so I might try building my own... 

That's all folks.  Steady rain and slowly melting slush here in Portland.

Terry

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Belated update:  I have been dealing with the cockpit and finally decided to use the kit "tub", instead of scratch building the cockpit interior. I spent a lot of time before I came to that decision figuring out how to make the formers or bulkheads that occur aft and forward of the cockpit. I used a contour gauge to get the curve for the rear bulk head and then adjusted it by hand to fit:

32340878632_1569790b4b_c.jpg

 

Then I decided to use the cockpit floor from the kit. But that brought up a host of issues and so I decided to just go ahead with the "tub". Heavy sigh. The former that I did make will be unseen but useful for supporting a rack that attaches to the back of the pilot's seat. So not a total waste. And I learned a lot!. 

 

Here you can see the former (is that the right word?) through the cockpit opening:

32340878622_04b5935d99_c.jpg

 

So on to the tub. The two things that I thought were most noticeable looking down into the actual aircraft were the rudder pedals and the throttle quadrants. The kit did a terrible job, (well efficient job) of representing the rudder pedals. They were molded to the floor in slots. The actual pedals are, as I see them,  connected to each other and pivoting on a bar. There was some mention of this in the literature that I have read. Anyway I tried to represent this reality:

32370950201_cbdfa0e2f9_c.jpg 

 

My skills with PE and CA glue hopefully will improve! It's rather disconcerting to see your work blown up so large after squinting at it through your magnifiers.

The sides of the tub were then tackled with my eye on the photos from the pilot's manual and not paying to much attention to the PE instructions as they were at variance in several places. This may have been caused by the model (early) of the aircraft that I am building. The later versions of the Whirlwind swapped some things about and added a few gizmos that were not present in P6969.

If the sidewalls look like they have been slathered with goo it is, a least partly due to the frisket that I have painted on the PE to try to preserve some of the painted details. Yes the PE is painted. Not liking it much!

 

Starboard side: (the piece of the plastic with the two red wires is the first aid kit, held in place with two springs)

32340878182_6d2e8de300_c.jpg

 

Port side: (I had some fun with some really fine wire. Dabbed the throttle levers with Mr S 500 to add some 3D effect to the PE. Hopefully it will look better when painted. I totally gave up on creating my on throttles with their gracefully curved levers. :shrug:

32340878592_b551a55f5e_c.jpg

 

So then I had to put the pieces together. Oh, I had been forming the seat cushion out of Milliput. Took one look and decide that for the tub, the seat was too wide.

32370950631_5dcefd12cc_c.jpg

 

I think that the seat is actually almost to scale for the aircraft, but the addition of the tub's walls throws everything off, so I decided to reduce the width of the seat. 

It's waiting for the epoxy to dry over night before I can trim the metal sides back:

 

32340878312_e6d6c20e6d_c.jpg

 

I will have to make the cushion again. But that is just another opportunity to get it right!

Finally I did a little work on the nacelles. Added some of the support tubing that hold the engine and connect to the landing gear. Scale of the tubing is a bit big I think but it will have to do. This is by way of also adding some strength to the bearing points now that the nacelle sides are paper thin:

 

32370950661_59ddb896bc_c.jpg

Alert viewers will notice that in the nacelle half at the top, Terry has not cut the tubes short enough to accommodate the floor/ceiling that is attached to the half on the bottom. :doh:  A job for after the epoxy cures. I used epoxy here because I was afraid of using cement or Extra Thin as it might deform the thin nacelle walls.

 

Sorry for the long update... 

Hope you are having fun too!

Terry

 

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I'm really enjoying your patient progress on this build Terry.:thumbsup2:

 

I know exactly what you mean about the shock of seeing a close-up photo of your own work - it gives me an initial shudder each time! (my work - not yours!:lol:)

 

Keep it up.

Tony

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Try and look on the bright side Terry. After this kit anything else will pretty much be a doddle!

 

Martian

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16 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Try and look on the bright side Terry. After this kit anything else will pretty much be a doddle!

 

Martian

 

With those two sentences SleeperService descends into a Pit of Despair as he has plans to build the monster lurking in his stash. I think I'll need to resurrect my HobbyCraft Vampire Trainer as a warm up....

 

Great work there Terry. I'm glad you're making progress and hope it continues rather more smoothly.

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On 18/01/2017 at 1:45 AM, Sprueloose said:

I will look more closely at the wheels. I got a pair of resin wheels but frankly they didn't look much different from the kit except for not having to deal with the seam line. They weren't weighted, which was a big disappointment. 

 

I would second @SleeperService 's recommendation of the Barracuda wheels. I looked at these during my build ( of the Classic Airframes version), and the Barracuda ones were by far the best.

 

11297266924_c992436c3c_z.jpg

 

The ones on the left are CA original, which I think resemble the Trumpeter ones. The rightmost are the Barracuda Whirlwind wheels. I was considering using Typhoon wheels (centre); they were better than the CA ones but still not quite right. Luckily Barracuda released theirs in the meantime!

 

cheers,

Jason 

 

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On 1/24/2017 at 0:51 AM, TheBaron said:

I know exactly what you mean about the shock of seeing a close-up photo of your own work - it gives me an initial shudder each time! (my work - not yours!:lol:)

 

So something I will have to get used to! Thanks Tony.

On 1/24/2017 at 2:17 AM, Reconcilor said:

Don't worry too much about the close-up. It looks fine to me😀

Especially since most of this stuff will be very hard to see once it's boxed up in the fuselage. But I can help but try to make it as "real" as I can. (And still maintain my sanity!)

On 1/24/2017 at 4:16 AM, Martian Hale said:

Try and look on the bright side Terry. After this kit anything else will pretty much be a doddle!

 

Martian

Yes, dare I say that I am looking forward to a "shake and bake" experience. Although I probably won't be able to control these urges to make it better!

20 hours ago, SleeperService said:

 

With those two sentences SleeperService descends into a Pit of Despair as he has plans to build the monster lurking in his stash. I think I'll need to resurrect my HobbyCraft Vampire Trainer as a warm up....

 

Great work there Terry. I'm glad you're making progress and hope it continues rather more smoothly.

Thanks for the good wishes SleeperService. If you just get over the idea that the kit will end up being totally accurate then it's just a matter of trying to make it resemble the real thing a little better. Or so I tell myself.

15 hours ago, JasonC said:

 

I would second @SleeperService 's recommendation of the Barracuda wheels. I looked at these during my build ( of the Classic Airframes version), and the Barracuda ones were by far the best.

 

 

The ones on the left are CA original, which I think resemble the Trumpeter ones. The rightmost are the Barracuda Whirlwind wheels. I was considering using Typhoon wheels (centre); they were better than the CA ones but still not quite right. Luckily Barracuda released theirs in the meantime!

 

cheers,

Jason 

 

Jason, coincidentally I just got through looking at your CA WIP. (I did get some Barracuda wheels btw). A little depressed at how much better the CA kit looks. Better details, better shape to the nacelles, etc. And your work is lovely. I will keep plugging away here getting my joys from the little things that I can add or modify on this kit, but knowing that there is no comparison between the two kits.

 

A little work today on the cockpit:

 

32485818436_56e0e31e49_c.jpg 

Seat cushion needs to cure and be painted but I think that I'm closing in on it.. It will be nice to get this fuselage buttoned up and move on!

Thanks for looking in and thanks for the advice.

Much appreciated!

Terry

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1 hour ago, Sprueloose said:

 

Yes, dare I say that I am looking forward to a "shake and bake" experience. Although I probably won't be able to control these urges to make it better!

 

This is most probably, nay, almost certainly true but at least you will be able to concentrate on what you want to do rather than fighting fundamental inaccuracies in the main kit parts. This experience will, however, stand you in very good stead in the road you have chosen to go down regarding super detailing as no matter how good a kit you have, this type of work will always involve a degree of surgery.

 

Martian

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9 hours ago, Sprueloose said:

Jason, coincidentally I just got through looking at your CA WIP. (I did get some Barracuda wheels btw). A little depressed at how much better the CA kit looks. Better details, better shape to the nacelles, etc. And your work is lovely. I will keep plugging away here getting my joys from the little things that I can add or modify on this kit, but knowing that there is no comparison between the two kits.

 I shouldn't feel too down, if at all. I think you're doing a splendid job tackling this kit, and the result should be a great looking Whirlwind.

 

regards,

Jason

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Did a little more today:

Worked on getting the nacelles closed up and discovered that the metal landing gear that I got just barely reached the mounting points. So I added a bit of tubing to give it a more solid connection. I wonder if the sanding that I did on the nacelles caused the sides to spread. The quality of the metal parts makes me doubt this.

32394543592_49b18303cc_c.jpg

 

Closed them up and filled a few spots and drilled out the exhausts a bit more.

 

32394543392_f920776b33_m.jpg   32394543522_e1f449b75f_m.jpg

 

Got the half tub and the shelf behind the pilot's seat glued in place.

 

32394543702_67d914956f_c.jpg

 

32506065326_79fc459009_c.jpg

 

Worked on the rear wheel. The kit has it mounted at the wrong angle so I started adding structure to support a better angle. Drilled out the cylinder and inserted a bit of wire for strength:

 

32394543222_8d449876ef_c.jpg

 

I ended by gluing the other side of the tub and the instrument panel in place. The stick is yet to be inserted as well as the gun sight.

 

That's it for today. 

Thanks for looking in.

Terry

 

 

Edited by Sprueloose

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A good day of modelling, although typically it was two steps forward, one step back:

First I secured the tail wheel : (needs painting)

32519721786_565389226e_c.jpg

 

Glued the nacelle end caps to the Fowler flap: (the nacelles aren't glued to the wings yet)

 

32519721936_a78d80594f_c.jpg

 

Then I spent the majority of my time working on the cockpit. The seat still didn't look right in relation to the bulkhead behind it.

Here is a pic of the real thing:

 

32181477530_7155492347_c.jpg

 

Notice how low on the bulkhead the top of the seat appears. Plus the detailing of the bulkhead on the kit is so different even with the PE added. So I dissolved the glue holding the seat in and yanked it out. Sanded down the bulkhead and drilled a few holes, added the two clasps at the top and then turned to the seat. The top of the seat was so high in relation to the edge of the fuselage probably because the floor is to high. Anyway, I sanded down the bottom of the seat and chopped it's back down a bit. Made a new cushion out of layers of Tamiya tape and Mr S 500. Put the seatbelts back on. Oh and I added the control stick in earlier today after detailing it a bit.

 

32181477420_7dd4a11b03_c.jpg

 

I ended the day starting to look at the props. The shape of the kit props is wrong and I might have a go at fixing that. Here is a drawing of the correct shape: 
 

32181477460_79734601d2_c.jpg

 

Here is the kit prop:

 

31716765184_e884839240_c.jpg

 

So hopefully I can print out a template from the drawing that I can use to modify the kit. They are about the right length, but I might have to add some material to the tips to get them more rounded. That should be interesting..

 

Thanks for watching!

Terry

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Did some work on the props. Printed out  templates and cut them out and glued them with PVA glue to the kit props. Then started filing:

 

31790694853_2aca3d8a98_c.jpg

 

Here is a comparison of the partially modified props on the left with the kit shape on the right. I'm not there yet but getting there.

31790695123_ecaac16ced_c.jpg

 

Also worked on the radiator cooling flaps. Attached the cut out flaps to the wing with strips of styrene and then added the bellows sided pieces:

32449695202_98feceeb9c_c.jpg

 

Here is a shot of the bellows side walls:

 

32223687620_66cbe22c6d_c.jpg

 

I had some trouble getting the halves of the fuselage to come together without a gap but after of bit of sanding on the cockpit tub I managed to get a reasonable fit. There was also a lot of work to be done on the upper wings to notch them around the PE at the radiator openings. I used the lower wing from the old model but decide to redo the upper wings. Here is the model taped together: (the landing gear is taped up in preparation for priming.)

 

32449695292_2219094cb8_c.jpg

 

 

This plane was one of the first not to have a big wing fillet where the wing meets the fuselage but for some reason Trumpeter decided to mold one in. More sanding ahead!

In preparation for the work I will have to do to remove the wing fillets, I filled the voids on the inside of the fuselage with epoxy:

 

31790695003_3158ac8d31_c.jpg

 

More fun ahead!

Thanks for watching.

Terry

 

 

 

 

 

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Got the fuselage glued together. Finished removing the fillet at the wing root as best I could. It really wasn't as much material as I expected. After letting it dry overnight I attached the wings and worked on the propellers and spinners. Got one spinner done:

 

31794535664_f89b9403dd_c.jpg

 

The rudder even moves! That's the old canopy in place to protect the cockpit. Next up I will finish the other spinner and then attach the Fowler flap in it's slightly deployed position. Glad that it's together finally even though there is a lot of filling to do especially at the wing roots. 

Here is a shot from the front so you can see the state of the fillet. You can just see the gap at the port wing root. 

 

32637429325_5449e8df73_c.jpg

 

Thanks for watching!

Terry

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Getting There mate!  I can see a aeroplane in there for the first time

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25 minutes ago, Reconcilor said:

Getting There mate!  I can see a aeroplane in there for the first time

Yeah it's nice to see it finally coming together! Lots to do yet but encouraging!

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It is becoming clear that you will get a decent model out of this pile of excrement. To tackle this as a first project shows real guts and determination.

 

Martian

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1 hour ago, Martian Hale said:

It is becoming clear that you will get a decent model out of this pile of excrement. To tackle this as a first project shows real guts and determination.

 

Martian

Thanks for the kind words Martian.  Not sure how I would do with a kit that wasn't as well molded as this one, in spite of it's inaccuracies. I imagine that it would be disheartening to work with plastic that had blobs instead of missing or inaccurate detail. Completing such a kit would, in my opinion be a truer sign of guts and determination.

Terry

 

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5 hours ago, Sprueloose said:

 Completing such a kit would, in my opinion be a truer sign of guts and determination.

Or insanity such as I have been (rightly) accused of on many occasions. :mental:Still, that's pretty much an entry requirement on BM so nobody really notices the difference! :fraidnot:

 

Martian

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I have been spending time bringing the original model (unmodified) up to the same state of completion as the one that I did all the alterations on. I had already cut out and modified the Fowler flap and the radiator flap, but I decided to return them to their out of box condition to provide a contrast with the newer version. 

Here is the newer version in it's present state. I attached the Fowler flap and the elevators. The nacelles are glued in place and I added brake lines.

31880750483_e3868ebe93_c.jpg

 

The Fowler flaps aren't perfect but they will have to do.

 

32313825600_f395d47f5c_c.jpg

 

Here is a look at both kits side by side. The newest is on the left :

 

32313825180_2ca457f0e2_c.jpg

 

Out of box kit:

 

32313825430_ee857c3e97_c.jpg

 

Modified version:

 

31880750603_6f9f879985_c.jpg

 

Modified version at the top. Hard to see the shortened and slimmed down fuselage:

 

32313825310_14a39e4867_c.jpg

 

Detailing on the new version. The glob of Bondo is covering the site of my through drilling to pin the nacelle end cap to the nacelle body.

 

 

32313825330_c37ac032b9_c.jpg

 

Here is the old version landing gear.

 

IMG_2055

 

I was rather disappointed with the after-market metal landing gear that I got for the new version and so started putting PE on the kit landing gear to see if I could swap it out. But after looking at the two again I decided to leave well enough alone and stay with the metal landing gear. The brake line is a nice touch, although I think I attached it to the bottom of the drum instead of the top.

Enough for now. It's been very busy here and I have to attack the new canopy next!  Tremble!...

Thanks for watching.

Terry

Edited by Sprueloose
Left out the pic

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10 hours ago, Sprueloose said:

I was rather disappointed with the after-market metal landing gear that I got for the new version

 

Terry, sounds like you wasted your money on that SAC o' crap.  It is rumored they once (perhaps twice) corrected kit parts prior to casting but most are simply casting the kit parts as they are with seams, knock out pin marks (with the  expected raised or sunken areas), and the added flash.

 

Regards,

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On 2/4/2017 at 3:35 AM, sharkmouth said:

 

Terry, sounds like you wasted your money on that SAC o' crap.  It is rumored they once (perhaps twice) corrected kit parts prior to casting but most are simply casting the kit parts as they are with seams, knock out pin marks (with the  expected raised or sunken areas), and the added flash.

 

Regards,

These aren't quite that bad and to my eye it doesn't appear that they used the kit parts as a model. The kit parts are skinny and lack detail that the PE only partly supplies and the after market metal pieces are rather chunky but with hints of detail, plus they are sturdy! Not a bad thing for someone who is prone to snapping things off! 

 

 

So I decided to stop staring at the fuselage and seeing more areas for putty and sanding, and start on the canopy. The first thing that I felt needed to be corrected was on the back portion of the canopy. The kit shows a nice big molded metal framework at the leading edge. The edge that mates with the front. Not there in the real world. So I decided to sand it off. There is a bit of PE that glues to the mating face of the back canopy that should help represent the real situation.

 

Here is the kit part dipped in Future:

 

32355161980_0b5220b3c8_c.jpg

 

Here is a picture of the real thing:

 

32355162180_3d2506d9bf_c.jpg

 

Note the breakout opening. I have to figure out how to represent that too. Scotch tape?. Anyway you can see that the rear canopy is rather complex with an internal metal structure and that leading or mating edge is much narrower than the middle frame. So things that the kit does not have: the breakout window (that oval on the starboard side of the rear or sliding canopy, the navigation light at the apex of the middle framework. The strip up the back of the canopy and it's supporting member. You will have to take my word for the fact that the rear view mirror is much bigger in real life that the little knob that is cast into the front canopy piece. I corrected this on the old model version, but need to do it again for this canopy. 

So I protected the canopy with a bit of tape and started filing..

32734809045_1d6216000b_c.jpg

 

Here is the outcome. Not perfect but better I think.

 

32355162400_eca16dd801_c.jpg

You can see the distortion a the leading edge but not too back. The plastic is so out of scale. Perhaps one day I will vacuum form my own canopy. 

 

So while I was waiting for a second coat of Future to dry I attached bits of clear sprue to the tail to represent a navigation light at the rear and a perspex covered treminus for the antenna, just above the horn (that bulbous thing separating the two sections of the rudder. 

 

32355162420_b719ce954e_b.jpg

 

All well and good but in doing so, I had to actually look at the tail and the elevators that I had put on yesterday. Put on upside down! Sigh! What is funny is that I put them on correctly on the old version and noticed that their pins were off center, but some how in the heat of battle didn't notice that I had them reversed. Sooo ... a little butchery and :

 

32734808865_57679aa441_c.jpg

 

While I have them off I realized that they should have gone much later, they totally get in the way of sanding the tail. So pressing on, I sculpted the two bits of clear sprue .Note the heavy duty guard for the tail wheel. Another casualty of Terry's ham fistedness. Learning, learing... I hope!!!

 

I have also been working on the nose. The lower ports for the cannons should have a bit of a bulge about them that the kit does not show. So I am adding a bit with epoxy. Pictures of that when it's more presentable.

 

Rain and more rain here. The basement is still dry. So that's good. Winter in Oregon.

Thanks for watching.

Terry 

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