Brandy Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) In a previous modelling life (ie first time around!) I developed a love of Hurricanes. One of those was (I believe) a Revell kit to which I added a scratchbuilt interior and main gear well using the Airfix "Classic aircraft and how to model them" book. A couple of years ago I found it in my Dad's attic and brought it back to the US to finish off. Unfortunately it wasn't as good as I liked to remember so I bought an old Airfix MkI/IIB kit to use the interior in. I also bought PE flaps and a resin gear well. Then the new tool kit came out, so I bought that too....Then I realised that the kit was a rag wing, and Alley Cat had just released a "tin wing" conversion, so that too was added... The only problem now was that the wing is a solid 1 piece item so the flaps cannot easily be cut out (scrap the PE flap!) and the gear well was very nicely reproduced too (scrap the resin detail kit). Thanks to my trials and tribulations with the 2 Sopwiths, I decided I needed a relatively quick and simple build - out came the Hurricane! Totally out of what has become my comfort zone (WWI aircraft) and no rigging! This will be built as one of the subjects in the Xtradecal Battle of Britain sheet, I'm not sure yet which one..... I think most are familiar with the new tool Airfix kit so I won't post pics of the kit itself. Since most of the interior is mounted on the wing assembly i thought that would be a good place to start, so out came the new airbrush. Thanks to a post on here with pics of the Finnish MkI Hurricane, I have painted the interior the usual green, with all the framework/seat/wheel well etc in aluminium. As far as the Alley cat wing goes, it's pretty straightforward...the only possible gotcha being the fact that the Airfix instructions show the view looking down on the lower half of the wing... but because the Alley Cat wing is one piece, you will be looking at it upwards towards the upper half...consequently you will need to reverse the 2 parts A5 and A6 , so they fit properly. Don't forget to sand off the little tabs on the rear edge of them either! My wing had quite a bad warp on the inner front edge, where it mates to the lower fuselage, but nothing that couldn't be easily resolved with a little hot water and clamps. The fit is pretty good too but did need a little fettling - I gently filed inside the grooves on the upper rear to reduce the thickness of the resin there, and also filed the lower parts of the fuselage to both thin them and raise them very slightly. Most of the work was required on the underside at the front, where it was too deep and left a large lip under the fuselage. A little sanding there also sorted that problem, although final close fitting will be left until it's all mounted. The last thing I did today was add a lip to the front and sides of the seat, and that will be sanded down to the correct shape when it's dry. Actually, the last thing I did today was order an interior PE set with seatbelts as I realised I didn't have any, so those are on their way from Hannants! Ian Edited November 15, 2016 by limeypilot spelling! 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dapple Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 I'm in Ian How about the scheme - do you have a particular aircraft in mind? Cheers, Stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Me too Good start on the internals Ian, very tidy, but that resin wing looks like a bit of a task to fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06/24 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Ah, just what I need, a brave pathfinder to show me the way... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 10 hours ago, Stew Dapple said: I'm in Ian How about the scheme - do you have a particular aircraft in mind? Cheers, Stew Welcome aboard Stew! I'm leaning towards P2923/VY-R of 85 Sqn. The only thing that concerns me is that there is no 85 Sqn white hexagon shown...anyone know if this aircraft was missing it for some reason? That's one of 3 Hurris on the Xtradecal BoB 70th Anny sheet (72-117). I will also be using that sheet for the Spit, and maybe the Defiant, when I built those. The Blenheim Mk1F will be a nightfighter and they're aren't any on that sheet so it's be as per the kit option. 7 hours ago, CedB said: Me too Good start on the internals Ian, very tidy, but that resin wing looks like a bit of a task to fit? Welcome Ced! The wing fits in the same way as the kit one. The only real issue was under the front centre which needed sanding down a little. Other than that it fits very nicely! There are plenty of kits which have far worse fit issues to the wings than this one! 7 hours ago, 06/24 said: Ah, just what I need, a brave pathfinder to show me the way... Hi Jon, There has been one done already, by Tonyot.... http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235002106-172nd-metal-winged-hurricane-mkiusing-the-new-alley-cat-resin-conversion-set/ He doesn't seem to have had the issue I have under the front centre, so that could be down do the warp that was in mine forcing the front piece a little low.... Ian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted November 15, 2016 Author Share Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) A little more info on the Alley Cat wing fitment... I noticed when looking through Tonyot's post that he cut off the bottom portion of the rear bulkhead (the part the seat attaches to). This is not, in fact, necessary but since it can't be seen anyway that fact is almost irrelevant... The part in question is not the rear spar in the wheel well, it actually fits into the recess in the upper surface of the wing assembly. I did have to narrow it slightly and sand off a little from the bottom. Here's a pic of the part fitted.... you'll notice that on the outer edges are 2 strengthening pieces which look like they've been lightened by drilling them out. There are 2 "holes" visible. the original part has 3 so that gives an idea of how much I've removed. The fuselage halves are also a little narrow at the bottom so I added a small piece of .03 square rod, just a fraction wider than the bulkhead, to open the sides out a fraction. Here's how the parts fit now.... The fuselage to wing gap is the same the other side - cant get much better than that! I also have a few other goodies to add to this. Namely a vac canopy and Rexx metal exhausts....... Ian Edited November 15, 2016 by limeypilot added info 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatbox8 Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Looking forward to this. I believe it's the only way to build a standard Mk1 at the moment. Very surprised Airfix haven't released an upgraded kit yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Good job Ian, that fit looks really good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Meatbox8 said: Looking forward to this. I believe it's the only way to build a standard Mk1 at the moment. Very surprised Airfix haven't released an upgraded kit yet. poor sprue design see http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/Airfix_1_72_Hurricane_Mk_I_A02067_in_box_review_about40879.html if they had designed it to add a new wing only.... that said, the fuselage lacks the starboard 2nd small rectangular fabric covered access panel, introduced at the very end of the N**** serial batch,(a noted Hurricane researcher tells me) though I have only seen it on P**** serialed onward. (They could actually tool a metal wing Mk I and get it completely right though...) which means if you want to do VY-R, you need to add that... 8 hours ago, limeypilot said: Welcome aboard Stew! I'm leaning towards P2923/VY-R of 85 Sqn. The only thing that concerns me is that there is no 85 Sqn white hexagon shown...anyone know if this aircraft was missing it for some reason? 85 squadron did not always have the hexagon, at this time they were not displaying it, which is July 1940 at Castle Camps (85 are unusual in that there are 5 sets of photos of their planes taken officially in 1940) OK, this sheet https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72117 VY-R don't bother, the codes are wrong, too slim. The decal colour guide is laughably bad, given that VY-R is a very rare bird, one that there are good pics from every angle.... here's my analysis Yep, can of worms. If you have a serial number, you could at least have chance to know if it was painted at the factory in sky, or repainted at MU or unit level when 'sky' was introduced on 6th june 1940. I doubt Xtradecal really know, and 'sky grey' is a guess. What scheme you are planning might get you a better answer, or even better a photo. But, from what I have read about the subject, I doubt a 'sky grey' but odd pale blues and pale green's are quite possible. There are threads here which talk about the actual pigments in sky, and the possible variations from unit level mixing..... right, this got me curious, so I looked up the Xtradecal sheet, and from the instructions you want to VY-R, P2923? Well, the Xtradecal instructions for this are really not very good. Why? This plane is a rarity from the era in as much as there are a series of Life pics of it, show both sides and a taxiying frontal shot. It's certainly an infield repaint, and the instruction totally fail to show the high demarcation line on the nose, and the wavy leading edge on the wings. Don't trust a profile with a photo is my motto! It shows the spinner as 'black with light green bands' ...where the got that from is anybody guess. More likely is red with yellow or white, as the spinner most closely resembles the fin flash in greyscale. But it's not black! [Edit, I think white stripes are most likely, as there is yellow visible in the photos, and the stripes are lighter in tone] as seen here RAF FIGHTER COMMAND 1940. © IWM (HU 104510)IWM Non Commercial Licence the other side. Note high 'sky' line on rear fusleage and carry over onto base of rudder. THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN. © IWM (HU 54416)IWM Non Commercial Licence and from the front, clearly showing the wavy leading edge. Also, just noticed, the similarity of tone of the spinner to the doped gun ports. FWIW I'd say the spinner is red with white stripes. (not black with green!!!!) RAF FIGHTER COMMAND 1940. © IWM (HU 104493)IWM Non Commercial Licence There is also a shot in flight, as well as 6-8 other shots of this plane, look on the IWM site for more. EDIT plane in fight in linked thread [doh], so here's the pic Coloured spinners? why? as at the time of the pics , taken at Castle Camps in july 1940, 85 Sq was quite possibly using spinner painted in flight colours, there is a pic of a pilots with a plane with what looks to be yellow, and also of Townsend plane with looks to be a white spinner [as he was C/O I guess] 85 sq seemed to be media darlings, and there are are 5 separate photo sets from 1940 ish about [France, phoney war, many 1940, Castle camps July 1940, October 1940 and as nightfighters winter 1940/41] see here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234907653-hurricane-i-vy-cg-of-85-sqn-lille-seclin-around-apr-1940/ Note this [page has links to other Hurricane threads....like that your interior framework and wheels wells should be aluminium paint... I hope this helps. I really should avoid these posts as I end up getting carried away... cheers T sorry, perils of cut n paste Ian, but thought my reasoning maybe of interest. The Aviology decals are better done. these two Xtradecal sheets https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72222 https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72225 were done with input from Tony O Toole and me nagging on details, there was a thread here of out comments but it went. HTH T 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 Thanks for that Troy, very useful stuff! It also clearly shows the aircraft with flame shields...I think my best bet would be to go with P3707/NN-A, the codes are still too thin but that's simple enough to correct! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 1 hour ago, limeypilot said: Thanks for that Troy, very useful stuff! It also clearly shows the aircraft with flame shields...I think my best bet would be to go with P3707/NN-A, the codes are still too thin but that's simple enough to correct! Ian Hi Ian a quick dig... https://fcafa.com/2012/06/02/hurricane-aircraft-of-310-sqn-and-312-sqn/ no shot of P3707 in link, but I have the Birtles book mentioned on decal instructions, and there is a shot on page 98 . The sq codes look very similar to this in width and placement, so wider than the sheet, again. The xtradecal sheet for fabric wing Hurricane has Sammy Allards VY-P http://www.hyperscale.com/2014/reviews/decals/x72193reviewmd_1.htm " N2319/VY-P 85, Sqn 60 Wing Air Component BEF France flown by Sgt G. Sammy Allard on 10 May 1940 when he shot down two He111s; " is actually metal winged..... Quote Quote Sergeant G "Sammy" Allard of No. 85 Squadron RAF being congratulated on his return to Lille-Seclin in France on the evening of 10 May 1940, after shooting down the second of two Heinkel He 111s claimed by him that day. Behind him, ground crew are busy refuelling and rearming his Hawker Hurricane Mark I, N2319 'VY-P'. this one might do Jonners, got a serial, code known, and decent pic, and looks to be metal winged, note shape of gun access cover. cheers T from , with more pics note at this time, May 1940, the 85 sq planes have thinner letters, and hexagons, the 'R' is easy to make into a 'P' note the 6 inch serial, (later is 8 inch) 5 spoke wheels, pole antenna, and it won't have the hatch I mentioned above. Airfix kit has the right prop, does the Alleycat have any props? props cause a lot of confusion http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/ this is the best guide on the subject anywhere AFAIK note xtradecal also got US-P wrong... the 1940 era is tricky to get right as there a lot of detail changes in plane (L, N and then P serial variations,) AND markings read this for markings http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/03-Hawker-Hurricane note camo diagrams etc etc along with there not being that many photos,,,apart from 85 sq... Quote The only problem now was that the wing is a solid 1 piece item so the flaps cannot easily be cut out (scrap the PE flap! flaps are only seen dropped for servicing, you got fined a round or drinks for forgetting to raise them! same with Spitfires hope of use... the poor old Hurricane still does not get the research it deserves, one little final detail, oil stains... look at the UC doors, above, note the lines at the bottom (even on the black on Allard's plane) Merlins leak A LOT of oil, it dribbles out the back of the engine bay, slipstreams blows it back.... it goes over the doors.... like this yugoslav plane on test flight in UK, note the oil stain starting, now look at Hurricane photos and note the UC doors... cheers T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) Excellent, Troy, thanks a bunch! It looks as though VY-P it will be then. The kit decals have the 85 Sqn hexagon, and I should easily be able to make my own decal for N2319. It looks from the pic as though the camo pattern is the same as for VY-R on the Xtradecals sheet and the fin flash would be the tall one as on US-P.....I assume it would be the black/white/aluminium undersides too for this date? edit. Actually looking at the pic above again, it looks as though it's just black/white underneath - the rear underside certainly doesn't look aluminium to me... Ian Edited November 16, 2016 by limeypilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 did you check the links? camo is this note dimensions from parts of airframe. the other scheme is the mirror of this in this,note details of VY-C, as the 85 sq planes seem pretty uniform at this point see profile below, note series of changes, useful for dating photos undersides, note rapid changes... and the Ducimus is still my 'go to' guide for hat changed when, hence posting up the above, but note my sig line.. we haven't even got into the joy of RAF squadrons codes... cheers T 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Thanks a million Troy, those are perfect! I got a little package in the post yesterday - the PE set I'd ordered from Hannants! I only really needed the seatbelts, but I saw an Eduard interior set so that was it.... on with the interior! The detail is really nice, the only gripe I'd have is the colour of the fuselage side panels. I'd be much happier if only the add on pieces were included so I could make sure the colours matched. Having said that, the curve of the fuselage makes it very difficult to see anyway so it's not hugely obvious. This is the set. It includes a 3 piece instrument panel, compass, and gunsight, plus the aforementioned seatbelts and sidepanels, plus smaller details, so those alone make it worth the money in my book. Add to that a handle for the canopy and meshes for the oil cooler and it's a pretty nice little addition! Before getting too far into fitting it, I dry fitted the seat back armour and noticed it fouled the fuselage on the right side. Here's the culprit: You'll notice the angle of the back armour is slightly different. It's a tad too high on the side marked and fouls the side of the cockpit. The solution is simple, just increase the angle sllghtly by cutting a tiny slice off the top of the "armour"... and here are before and after shots showing the closed up gap... A quick shot of some of the interior detail.... and she is now closed up! ....and put away again for a while until I finish the 2 Sopwiths! Thanks for looking in! Ian Edited December 7, 2016 by limeypilot spelling! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Very nice interior Ian, I like that a lot! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Think I shall sidle in here and nab a pew before all the usual hub-bub show up as I have one of these(Aldi cheapo starter kit variant)to rustle up at sometime in th'future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 On 12/8/2016 at 1:43 PM, Miggers said: Think I shall sidle in here and nab a pew before all the usual hub-bub show up as I have one of these(Aldi cheapo starter kit variant)to rustle up at sometime in th'future. Welcome aboard Miggers old chap! Not much to add at the moment, but I have attached the wings. There was a fair bit of sanding required at the front end to blend it in with the fuselage, but nothing too drastic. All the joints have been gone over with Mr Dissolved Putty and I'll clean them up before going any further. May be a while though as I want to get the pair of Sopwiths done first.... Thanks for looking in! Ian 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Looks good Ian, nice fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Apart from the fit at the front of the wing, there is also an issue with the thickness of the trailing edge. I decided I'd sand it down, and although I'll lose the detail on the ailerons, they are the same as the kit ones so I can remove them and use the kit items. Here's a shot that I hope shows the problem...sanded down on the right and as it comes on the left.... I have since reinstated the panel lines and on my return from the UK will replace the ailerons. I had also planned to use a vac canopy, bought for the original Airfix kit. That has not been necessary as this one has a very nice, thin rear canopy. The slight step on the rear fuselage has been removed, along with the rails, and it fits perfectly! Ian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Wow, I hadn't realised it had been so long since I did anything on this! Anyway, since I'm waiting on plastic stock to make the Muromets engines I decided to look at this again and get some primer on. The aileron replacement didn't work out as the upper and lower leading edges don't line up, making it virtually impossible to remove them from the solid Alley Cat wing. It just means I loose the rather nice, but very faint, ribbed fabric effect and I can live with that. So, a blast of Tamiya white to see what else needs doing..... I'm pretty pleased with that. The wing joins are almost perfect. There's a little more work to do on the rear underside joints, and a couple of panel lines I missed under the nose that need to be rescribed, but other than that she's looking pretty good. Those issues will be addressed next, then the rudder and windscreen can go on and prep started for final painting! Thanks for looking in! Ian Edited February 22, 2017 by limeypilot 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Evening all! I dealt with the issues mentioned above and over the last few days have been prepping for painting the undersides. That has now been done! There are a couple of areas where my masking let me down, and a small area at the rear inner edge of the left wing that has been affected by the masking tape and will need to be rubbed down and resprayed. Other than that, I'm happy with how it's coming on. I think I'll crack on with this one and get it finished before going back to the Muromets - I'm going to need the space! Ian 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Very smooth finish and nice demarcation Ian - good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 Thanks Ced! I think I've waited long enough, so this morning I masked the undersides, and she is now....green! I'll leave that until tomorrow, then go and buy some blue tack! Ian 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaffajake Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Lovely work, Ian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I've been following this with interest, having ambition to do something similar, my metal wing arrived in the post today & while a little thicker than the kit wing trailing edges, I think perhaps not so much as your one. I think I'll leave it be anyway. I'm beginning to imagine a "need" for a couple more. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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