The Spadgent Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 Ok just been a googling. Thanks guys. I think I'll level them up a bit rather than one up one down. you guys rock! Thanks. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango98 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Hi John, On the Bf 109E both ailerons when in the neutral position were rigged to droop 1.2 degrees with the flaps (the inboard, larger ones fully up). With the flaps in the fully down position (42 degrees), the ailerons were rigged to extend their droop to 11 degrees. Looking at your photos the flaps appear to be fully down but the ailerons at a little more than 11 degrees. If the ailerons are not glued in position it's not a problem but if they are, I'm sure that with a little 'persuading' you could probably ease both ailerons up a little without busting them off. Cheers Dave Edited January 29, 2017 by tango98 deleted duplicate word 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 56 minutes ago, tango98 said: Hi John, On the Bf 109E both ailerons when in the neutral position were rigged to droop 1.2 degrees with the flaps (the inboard, larger ones fully up). With the flaps in the fully down position (42 degrees), the ailerons were rigged to extend their droop to 11 degrees. Looking at your photos the flaps appear to be fully down but the ailerons at a little more than 11 degrees. If the ailerons are not glued in position it's not a problem but if they are, I'm sure that with a little 'persuading' you could probably ease both ailerons up a little without busting them off. Cheers Dave Thanks Dave. Thats great to know, I'll try and swing em up a bit. Jont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) I got back later than expected last night so didn't have much time but tried to see if the airlerons would budge. Alas without cutting them away they're pretty much stuck. so I'll just have to make do with them a few degrees lower. Which isn't that bad really. I did however after glossing have a go at some mottels and scratches. (Gently, gently) super subtle but you can pick up the variation on the outer wing a little more. I like where it's going, just need to see if I can add the dark contrast. the real kick in the trousers was noticing that I hadn't cleaned off the bubbles in the wheel wells before glossing.such a plonker. I'm going to have a go at re painting them with a light coat of RLM02 and see how it goes. thanks for all your help. have a great Monday. And as always, happy modelling. johnny paint. Edited September 10, 2017 by The Spadgent 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Gee, I take it easy over a week end, and you almost finish your build?! Great show! I see you came foul (OK, almost) of the aileron droop with full flaps down... You're lucky Dave was watching over your shoulder! Your weathering has been pushed as far as it can go! Perfect! JR Edited January 30, 2017 by jean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor K2 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Sorry to butt in on this excellent build, but I must correct Greg Destec when he says "a man that actually knows about real planes to the rescue" does that mean he is an expert on wood work and not aircraft? I would like to educate those of a non aeronautical background and ask them to from now on to say aircraft or aeroplane and not refer to woodworking tools when replying to aircraft related subjects. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonl Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hi John, As @tango98 says the 109 ailerons drop together when the flaps are fully deployed..... You've nailed the weathering.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Victor K2 said: Sorry to butt in on this excellent build, but I must correct Greg Destec when he says "a man that actually knows about real planes to the rescue" does that mean he is an expert on wood work and not aircraft? I would like to educate those of a non aeronautical background and ask them to from now on to say aircraft or aeroplane and not refer to woodworking tools when replying to aircraft related subjects. I see where you're coming from but a lot of people use plane. "I'm leaving on a Jet aeroplane" doesn't quite do it. right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airplane "An airplane or aeroplane (informally plane) is a powered, fixed-wing aircraft that is propelled forward by thrust from a jet engine or propeller. " even the oxford says it's OK. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plane You have to love the English language. Thanks for liking the 109. Johnny woodwork 8 minutes ago, Leonl said: Hi John, As @tango98 says the 109 ailerons drop together when the flaps are fully deployed..... You've nailed the weathering.... Thanks man. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Pull stick back, elevators raise up, pushing tail down / raises nose Push stick forwards, elevators go down, pushing tail up / lowers nose Stick left, left aileron goes up and right aileron goes down, dropping the left wing and raising the right wing Stick right, right aileron goes up and left aileron goes down, dropping the right wing and raising the left wing Push on left pedal, right pedal comes back towards you, rudder moves left, pushes tail right / nose left Push on right pedal, left pedal comes back towards you, rudder moves right, pushes tail left / nose right Maximum control deflections (before the surface hits its stops) is almost always less than modellers think. This video shows a fairly aggressively flown P38 with a camera looking down the tail. Note how imperceptible the control surface movements are for the pitch rates the aircraft is achieving. And/or have a watch of this video of Mustang aerobatics with onboard cameras showing stick movements and control surface movements https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Cwn4Gb3qc Control forces (i.e. effort to move the stick and pedals) can be (very) high flying aerobatics which I'm fortunate to have done a reasonable bit of, but movements aren't that much. Most highish performance aircraft (certainly including WW2 fighters) had mass balanced control surfaces which meant they had weights ahead of the hinge lines so that they balanced on the hinges. Non-mass balanced control surfaces are prone to flutter followed very shortly after by spectacular structural failure. Between the mass balancing and friction in the slop-free control linkages (be they pushrods or cables and pulleys), the control surfaces will tend to remain where the stick was left and not flop about limply. Rudders will often deflect if parked cross-wind on in a stiff breeze. I think modellers have taken too much instruction from some aircraft with powered flying controls and without direct linkages between control column and surfaces (i.e. fly by wire) which sometimes do fall down when there's no hydraulic pressure - that and very low performance GA type aircraft with unbalanced flying controls. If interested in flutter (or aeroelasticity): 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, SovereignHobbies said: Pull stick back, elevators raise up, pushing tail down / raises nose Push stick forwards, elevators go down, pushing tail up / lowers nose Stick left, left aileron goes up and right aileron goes down, dropping the left wing and raising the right wing Stick right, right aileron goes up and left aileron goes down, dropping the right wing and raising the left wing Push on left pedal, right pedal comes back towards you, rudder moves left, pushes tail right / nose left Push on right pedal, left pedal comes back towards you, rudder moves right, pushes tail left / nose right Maximum control deflections (before the surface hits its stops) is almost always less than modellers think. This video shows a fairly aggressively flown P38 with a camera looking down the tail. Note how imperceptible the control surface movements are for the pitch rates the aircraft is achieving. And/or have a watch of this video of Mustang aerobatics with onboard cameras showing stick movements and control surface movements https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Cwn4Gb3qc Control forces (i.e. effort to move the stick and pedals) can be (very) high flying aerobatics which I'm fortunate to have done a reasonable bit of, but movements aren't that much. Most highish performance aircraft (certainly including WW2 fighters) had mass balanced control surfaces which meant they had weights ahead of the hinge lines so that they balanced on the hinges. Non-mass balanced control surfaces are prone to flutter followed very shortly after by spectacular structural failure. Between the mass balancing and friction in the slop-free control linkages (be they pushrods or cables and pulleys), the control surfaces will tend to remain where the stick was left and not flop about limply. Rudders will often deflect if parked cross-wind on in a stiff breeze. I think modellers have taken too much instruction from some aircraft with powered flying controls and without direct linkages between control column and surfaces (i.e. fly by wire) which sometimes do fall down when there's no hydraulic pressure - that and very low performance GA type aircraft with unbalanced flying controls. If interested in flutter (or aeroelasticity): Thanks for the info. Either way I'm glued fast and must leave my ailerons sitting where they are. I have learned something new about aeroplanes. Awesome! Johnny 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Beema Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 21 hours ago, triumphfan said: Just for a bit of clarity, ailerons are flying control surfaces and work opposing each other so if one is up, the other will be down, ailerons control roll. Flaps are used on take off and landing and would be in the same plane as they increase lift and allow the aircraft to be stable at low speed (a reasonable description?) The horizontal stabilisers also work in the same plane and make the aircraft go up and down. Rudder helps the aircraft go left and right. Sorry if this is the sucking eggs thing? Atb, Steve. P.S The model looks absolutely superb. To try to add to Triumphfans post, the Aileron in the centre of the turn is the aileron that goes up, the other drops meaning that the aeroplane roles. I.e. Stick left, left aileron up, right aileron down, aeroplane roles left. If you are making a multiengined aeroplane with a failed engine on one side, the uneven power would cause the airplane to try to turn into the stalled engine, to counter this you would apply opposite rudder... Of course the secondary effect is that the aeroplane will roll but that's where it gets complicated.... So it's worth doing a bit of finding out about aeroplane controls to ensure that you pose your aircraft correctly.. Oh by the way, love the Yellow Nosed Bar Steward... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James G Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Very nice indeed John, super build! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Yes, I am indeed learning a lot about aeroplanes from this here little site of ours. just through Tod let you all know I've fixed the grubby wells. before. and after. single thin coat of RLM02. Mojo restored! that is all. Jont. Edited September 10, 2017 by The Spadgent 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Stick the bomb stick the bomb on stick the bomb on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudde Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) That looks great. Please leave it at it is. Edited January 30, 2017 by bbudde 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheBaron said: Stick the bomb stick the bomb on stick the bomb on. As Regan said in the Exorcist. "In Time" Edited January 30, 2017 by The Spadgent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, bbudde said: That looks great. Please leave it at it is. Thanks. Don't worry I am. Just going to spend a little time going over all the panels. I'm looking forward to getting the belts done now. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexN Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Great save on the wheel well(s)! I suppose that now is not the time to mention the leading-edge slats... Looking stupendous. I'm with TheBaron - put the bomb on! Perhaps after you've done the propeller and cowling - last bits? Cheers, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, AlexN said: Great save on the wheel well(s)! I suppose that now is not the time to mention the leading-edge slats... Looking stupendous. I'm with TheBaron - put the bomb on! Perhaps aftwr you've done the propeller and cowling - last bits? Cheers, Alex. Shush at the back. yes I need to spend some time on the paint work then I'll finish off the bits and then the tiny parts. still a little way to go yet. Johnny oh and thanks. Edited January 30, 2017 by The Spadgent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, bbudde said: That looks great. Please leave it at it is. Unsurprisingly I agree! 1 hour ago, The Spadgent said: As Regan said in the Exorcist. "In Time" Sadist! Martian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor K2 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hi Johnny English, My instructors in The R.A.F. (notice I placed a full stop between the letters) over 40 years ago (who did their own training when Pontious was a trainee pilot), would slap our heads if we used the forbidding words "plane or planes" they even frowned on any of the erks saying wings instead of mainplane. We were taught by "old school" tutors and were suitably admonished (carrying a Canberra brake unit around the outside of the Hangar or something similar). So you can see that this form of "Brain washing" has affected me. I could go on with all of the many re educated ways of the Royal Air Forces number one school of trade training, R.A.F. Halton, but that would be the start of a new thread in itself. Keep up the excellent work, Bob. "I'm leaving on a Jet Plane, don't know when I'll be back again" That's Americans for you ( still, that's the music of my youth). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 To be fair, we British also insisted on using the term "airscrew" for decades which is a fundamentally crap description of how a propeller works. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 6 hours ago, Victor K2 said: Hi Johnny English, My instructors in The R.A.F. (notice I placed a full stop between the letters) over 40 years ago (who did their own training when Pontious was a trainee pilot), would slap our heads if we used the forbidding words "plane or planes" they even frowned on any of the erks saying wings instead of mainplane. We were taught by "old school" tutors and were suitably admonished (carrying a Canberra brake unit around the outside of the Hangar or something similar). So you can see that this form of "Brain washing" has affected me. I could go on with all of the many re educated ways of the Royal Air Forces number one school of trade training, R.A.F. Halton, but that would be the start of a new thread in itself. Keep up the excellent work, Bob. "I'm leaving on a Jet Plane, don't know when I'll be back again" That's Americans for you ( still, that's the music of my youth). I meant nothing by it dear Sir. I understand that using certain terms might seem irksome, I use "Telephone" much to the disgruntlement of my fellow work chums. I'm sure your old instructors would have me a clip upside the ear if I ever mentioned the "P" word or even worse "Airplane" ( Great film mind ) I'll try and keep the order Bob, glad you're enjoying the build. I'll try and get that bomb on soon. Johnny. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) Oh my this IS taking some time, but I can't go rushing it now. This is turning out to be my longest build so far. tonight was spent adding the three tones of light scratches to make her look a little beaten, not too much but just how I envisaged. I think I'm happy but I need to wait until daylight. I took three snaps showing how the detail fades from a distance but still adds to the overall look. I have taken the paint back one step from the close one so it's even more subtle. I hope it looks ok tomorrow. I was happy with this until I went and made a cuppa, came back and it looked a bit to much so I took the whole lot back with Tamiya thinners. And here we are. I'm happy with that. I used brush and sponge and a cotton bud to blend and a cotton pad to take back. If she looks good tomorrow I can move onto the little bits. thanks for stopping by. Take it easy guys. Johnny up late. Edited September 10, 2017 by The Spadgent 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithman Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 VERY nicely done! and allow me to say, "I can't wait to see your little bits"! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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