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Roy vd M.

Fiat 806: research and scratchbuilds

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Dear Nick this cross- section ( engine drawing 4 )is very interesting for sure  ! It also  shows the cross-sections of the chassis rails as O-profiles  at this spot !  ( two U -profiles , welded together ) . I´m not sure if there were O-profiles over the whole lenght of the rails but for my model I choose this solution .

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes

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We are happy in the area where I live (south east of France), it is the only one in France where there are warm but not very hot temperature (around 29,5° yesterday).

Thanks Nick, but, because of my english not so good, I did not understand parts of what you said here:

13 hours ago, NickD said:

I have also only just realised, that on the engine cross-section drawing with all the gears there appears a good cross section of not only the engine mount tubes and the chassis cross-members. That's going to be very useful. Surely I'm not the first to spot it.

 

 

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph

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Dear Olivier , my post  for Nick above explains what you want to ask him. Second question regarding the nuts : Knupfer , Harvey´s shop etc .  Hannes

Edited by Hannes

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I´m about to drill holes for my frontal chassis rails . One interesting detail I found out : The mounting points for the frontal  shock absorbers seem to have a different distance on drawing 2 ´s top-view and side-view ! The explanation is simple :Top-view of drawing 2 shows the lower mounting points on their hanging frames ! Only  3 of 4  of the upper mounting points can be seen  and no drawn connection with the absorbers . ( I guess the draughtsman just forgot to draw the 4. mounting point )

This also could possibly show the mounting system of the absorbers : The two outer leafes get united and are mounted to the lower frames around the axle and the single central  leafes are mounted to the points on the chassis . The distance between the upper mounting points in my scale is 7 mm and between the lower ones 11 mm

Many greetings !  Hannes

P S On top-view of drawing 2 we also can see the two guide-pulleys for the brake cables  ( partial under the leaf springs )

Edited by Hannes

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Nicely spotted Hannes!:D You have eyes like a hawk my friend! I've been studying the drawings etc and hadn't even noticed!

 

Progress on my build is...chassis legs marked out and scribed, ready to cut to shape for fabrication. I'm also in the process of cutting out the chassis drawings and double-side taping them to the body buck. Will post a "proper" report with some pics this weekend!

 

Cheers, H

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I look forward to see some pics , mate ! What kind of profile  did you choose ? Engine drawing 4 shows two U- profiles welded together to an O- profile .

These rails were made out of relative  thin steel sheets and were  not as massive as they look imho .

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes

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14 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

Where could I find mini nuts (2 mm hexagon) please? 

 

You can find them here

What you are looking for is: M1.2 hexagonal brass nuts, 1 mm thickness and 2 mm diameter 

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I was always wondering why no frontal engine suspension tubes can be seen on drawing 2 like the kit suggests . In my opinion there´s an simple answer : There were none !

As it seems , the frontal suspension was situated over the frontal cap of the roots blower´s case . This cap is very massive as we can see on engine drawing 5 .

Over this cap there´s a strong imho  suspension tube in the region behind the schock absorber mounting points on the chassis rails .

We can clearly see this cross tube on the engine drawing .  Unfortunately it´s not shown on this cross-section drawing how this  tube was connected with the case below ..

Most likely the rear suspension tubes had to carry a high percentage of the load and the frontal suspension should just hold the engine in place.

 

You may also wonder why the front axle is not shown straight on engine drawing 5 .  It´s because it was not straight regarding it´s central , long part imho  !

The axle had to bend four times seen from the top-view because the roots blowers case needed this space imho

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes

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When I had scratchbuilt the air filling cap, I had forgotten this detail, the ring around at its base:

 

chlZaH.png

 

I have decided to represent this little ring. As the cap is 1 mm diameter, I made first a hole of 1,1 mm in a 0,3 mm thick tin foil with Punch and Die RP Toolz. Then I cut with a triangular blade the outside circle (the tin foil is very easy to cut).  When the ring is done, I thread it around the cap and I cement it by capillarity with a liquid cyano, such the Cyberbond 2008 (special rubber). The advantage of using tin foil is that I even don't need to paint it, it has naturally a very nice metal look.

X4BXK1.jpg

 

N.B: on the photo, the ring is a bit too large, it had to be cut a bit more to be realistic. The outside diameter must be around 1,9 mm.

 

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph

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8 hours ago, CrazyCrank said:

 

What you are looking for is: M1.2 hexagonal brass nuts, 1 mm thickness and 2 mm diameter 

Thank you Thierry, pity, I had ever ordered on another site, prime-miniatures. I say pity because they are more expensive on p-m (paid in pounds). Glad to see you still read us, anyway. 

Best regards

 

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I made a light weathering on my handbrake, then I applied a mix of desert yellow and beige brown Vallejo on the handle (the photos show a light color for this handle) and I finished with a touch of the very nice Chrome Silver from Mr Hobby Super Metallic (thinned with Mr Color leveling thinner) on the button. Maybe I will replace this painted button by a 1,5 mm steel ball (the photos show it has a very rounded shape). But even like that, I am glad with this important part of the build:

 

l2ed7t.jpg

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As mentioned above, I modified the part 138D (the "thick spring" solution suggested by the kit was not convincing at all) inspired by the same part on the Mef. The little brass tube (0,7 mm) allows to insert inside (after drilling with care with 0,4 and 0,5 mm drill) the 0,38 mm braided cable from RB Motion. A little drop of cyano and it's OK. I will do the same on the other bottom. The hardest will be to get a good tension of the cable...  

SHGxop.jpg

Edited by Olivier de St Raph

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Dear Olivier , your lever looks great ! One part is still missing imho :You should add a small washer right under  the button . On photo 9 we can see there´s no direct transition handle-button, there´s a round plate between !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes

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4 hours ago, Hannes said:

Dear Olivier , your lever looks great ! One part is still missing imho :You should add a small washer right under  the button . On photo 9 we can see there´s no direct transition handle-button, there´s a round plate between

Thanks Hannes! Are you sure there is a washer? I rather see that light part as the apex of the handle...

Edited by Olivier de St Raph

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Chaps,

 

You all seem to have been busy

 

Olivier - looking good as always. Sorry my english is confusing. Believe me, it is much better than my French!

 

Hannes - Drawing 2 is interesting. It is obviously genuine but it is also obviously wrong. So it keeps us on our toes. Hadn't spotted the pickups for the dampers. the attachment to the axle is interesting. It is not at all clear how the brackets were configured. The drawing does show clearly the way the 3 pieces of the axle are bolted together. I had assumed (wrongly it appears) that the central piece is straight.

 

I had noticed the pulleys for the brakes but had not thought about how they pick up on the wheel hubs. There must have been some detail for how the pulleys worked too. Most of the contemporary cars seem to have chains and cogs.

 

On thing to note on Drawing two is that the steering cross tube is not in the same place on the plan and sideview.

 

ATB

 

Nick

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Dear Olivier , the washer was a suggestion how to construct this part  for your model .In reality  the ball and it´s foundation were made out of one piece of metal on a lathe imho .There´s a similar " washer " at the downside of the handle as well imho. Most likely the handle was coated with rubber and to hold it in place  these limits were necessary in my opinion . I don´t believe this ball had a special function , it just should prevent the driver´s hand from getting injured  or his gloves getting damaged when operating the lever .

 

Dear Nick I would like to hear your opinion regarding the frontal engine suspension and the " discovered " cross -tube as described in my post above ! 

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes

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Hannes,

 

Following your question I went and looked properly at the engine drawings. How long have we been doing this? I realised I had completely missed some really important things, like your comment on the axle. Doh! Time to go and look at some of these sources properly - starting with Roy's analysis yonks ago (Translation: "Yonks" - informal period of time - much longer than a "mo")

 

Regards


Nick

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I think the handbrake is of the "fly-off" type often found on sports and race cars. These had a button on the top. To apply the brake, the button was pressed and the handle pulled back. With the brake on, the button was released and the brake was locked on. To release the brake, the handle was simply pulled back a little way and  then loosed. The lever sprang back to the off position, hence the term fly-off. 
The brake required the button to be pressed to lock on so it was easy to apply a little brake to promote a rear wheel slide by simply pulling the lever and releasing.

Google for more info.

 

Dave

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Dear Dave , thanks for the interesting info !

Many greetings !  Hannes

Edited by Hannes

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Thanks Dave. It seems logic indeed that if there is a button, there must be a reason... 

Thanks Hannes for your suggestion about the piece of metal, I'll add it...

And thanks Nick for your encouragements.

Edited by Olivier de St Raph

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Dear Hannes, I listened to you, and decided to rework my handle. I first separated it from the "metallic" rod, then sanded it to get flat base and top and a smoother surface. then I airbrushed XF 59 thinned with X 20A, then I glued 2 tin pads (0,1 mm thick tin foil) of 2 mm diameter (Punch and Die...) at the base and to the top. Now, I just have to wait for the steel balls I ordered, to add the button, that will be the cherry on top :P!

 

a7Zcyd.jpg

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Dear Olivier , please wait with mounting this wonderful stick , till the exhaust pipes are at their places ! . You will have  a lot of work to do till the kit´s pipes are altered or - better - new pipes are constructed by scratchbuilding them !

Many greetings !  Hannes

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Regarding your bonnets I have a suggestion : Why don´t you show the right bonnet closed and the left open to display your engine  ?  If you add one or two mechanics ( or Felice Nazarro :D ) and create a convincing surrounding this could become a very nice diorama !

Many greetings !  Hannes

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