Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Hannes said: Dear sam , young Laureen Bacall is the type of woman I personally would prefer ,not Ingrid Bergmann : So you can call me Humphrey ! Need a cigarette now... Ah! Casablanca... what a film! and personally, I am under Ingrid charm here... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Laureen is more the femme fatale - type , but very sexy when she was young ! Ingrid is more sensitive : I think both are interesting types of women ! Hannes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, NickD said: OK I am impressed with that blueprint now. Outstanding. This shows the importance of our computers in model making today. My son needed my computer these last days for school work (he is 16) and, without my Macbook, I couldn't do nearly anything! My Mac is as important as my airbrush!! In that occasion, I could lighter photo 7A and, doing that, reveal details invisible in the normal version... I had ever done that lightening for other photos, especially photo 9, that is very dark. When you lighten it, you see much more details... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hannes said: Laureen is more the femme fatale - type , but very sexy when she was young ! Ingrid is more sensitive Totally agree! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I had noticed that the "photo 3" in the german article sent by Paul 2 days ago was lighter than our photo 3. I made an enlargement to show you the frame and this rivets line. Notice the "tiny ledge" mentioned by Hannes. But, more frontally, the ledge is wider and there is this rivets line: probably 7 rivets or maybe 8... This photo 3 in the article seems to me having a better resolution than ours. What do you think? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Well spotted Olivier! You have eyes like a hawk, my friend.....another beautiful piece of delicious detail to add! Cheers, H 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Added to the opening post: Photo 4B Photo 7E Drawing 2E This Drawing is only to be used for researching and checking details that are not to be found on Drawing 2A, Drawing 2B or Drawing 2C. I strongly advise against using it for measurement purposes because it consists of several photos of the blueprint 'glued' together. 53 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said: I suppose these wires are for breaking system, and the "construction" wears probably a precise name. It recalls me what we find on bicycle breaking system... It is exactly like that. On the Delage it looks like this. One cable goes to the front brake, one to the rear. They are attached at the lever seen here: (Courtesy Wikipedia) I don't know what the technical term for the construction is, I usually refer to it as 'brake linkage'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Dear Harvey yes this car teaches us how to become hawk eyed : One thing I spotted too ; On the radiator case there are 5 bolts or srews on each side : But there are two very small rivets or screws behind them ! Amazing , isn´t it ! Regarding this construction under the frame of the car´s left side I tend to believe I could see hanging oil pipes with a support sheet ( photo 10 ) What else could it be ? Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Waooh Roy! This link to the Delage is great!! Just 2 things about your post: - on the photo 4B, the frontal wire doesn't seem to come from the lower part of that construction, but from the upper one. - I think you should add the lightest photo 7 A. If you mind about the labels in french, I can post the photo without label. All the best 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Definitely, if we could get from Paul the best resolution possible for this article, it would be fantastic... I have asked him in my last mail yesterday to do that Edited January 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph Add 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) On the Fiat the top of the linkage was connected to the rear brake. Regarding the right side of the car, that can be clearly seen in Photos 1, 2 and 9 for example. Regarding the left side of the car, the same applies, as can be seen in Photo 8. In Photo 4B you can see the rear cable going up from the linkage toward the rear brake drum. The front cable can not be seen. I think it can just be spotted in Photo 4 though, if you look really close. Edit: correction, you can see the front brake cable in Photo 4B. It can not be seen in Photo 4. If you post or send me the lighter version of Photo 7 without label I'll put it in the opening post. Edited January 28, 2017 by Roy vd M. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Dear Olivier what you see is the upper end of the frame not a wire at the same height as the brake wire for the rear wheel . But look again at this photo ! Under the frame ,it´s very hard to spot there is a longer piece of metal which possibly had the duty to support something ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Roy, this photo of the Delage showing the construction is too important for us to be just a link. It must be easy to find. I will ask Paul if I can post it on the thread... Edited January 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph correction 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Ok Roy and Hannes, you are both certainly right. Notice however that, on the Delage, not one but 2 wires go frontally (only one backwards). The "wire" I saw couldn't it be a 2nd one, upper, and the one you show on the video, Roy, a lower one? P.S: After posting, I have been seeing my Delage photos taken at Rev's and I have noticed that, on the left side, the wire going backward is the lower one. So, it means that the photo you put as link, Roy, is the right side. Maybe Paul could send us a photo of the construction on left side (I can't see it well on my Delage photos)... Of course, we can't be sure the construction was exactly the same on the Fiat, but it is quite probable, no? It would be useful too to see where exactly, and how, end these wires, frontally and backwards.... Edited January 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph add 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Olivier I would rather use this as reference: ... because Fiat didn't use Delage's chain solution. This is Photo 2, true size. If you don't have the photos true size yet, now is the time. In the opening post, right-click on one (Photo 2 is an excellent example) and choose 'open in new tab'. Clicking on the new tab, click on the image to enlarge it. P.s. I don't know if Revs allows us to use the photos on their website in this thread, that's why I made the hyperlink. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) You think I should remove it? Maybe we can ask them if they allow us to post it. That said, you are right, it is a better reference to use photo 2. Thank you for these highlights... Edited January 28, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Dear Olivier thank you for sending me this German article ! I won´t translate it completely because we already know the most of these informations. And I already posted some of the important issues . But now it´s very interesting , what Salamano had to say about the end of Fiat´s racing era : For the year 1927 there were no official plans for racing activities anymore . Fiat did not build important sportscars at that time and Agnelli lost all interests in racing activities recognizing Delage and of course Bugatti were mighty competitors . He was interested in mass production and did not even know there were racing activities behind his back . But there were activities as we all know ! Two Fiat 1500 racing cars were already registered for the Indianapolis GP in the USA , a very important event at that time : But the cars were not yet completed . Salamano should drive the second car at the Monza race , but only one of them was completed for the race so Bordino was the one to drive the race . After the victory at the same evening the registration for Brooklands already was done. Meanwhile Agnelli spent some days in a seasite resort at the Italian Riviera. He read about the victory in the newspapers and was vey angry . He did not even know this racing car exists and also believed ther were no racing activities in his company anymore . He did not care about the technical mastership and the advanced technology . Back in Torino he ordered the complete destruction of the cars by sledge-hammers so not a single part could survive :All plans were teared apart. He also teared the racing enthusiasts apart by sending them to places of bussines abroad like to America , Australia , Sweden and India : Only a few photos survived : End of Salamano´s version Many greetings ! Hannes 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Ok Roy and Hannes, you are both certainly right. Notice however that, on the Delage, not one but 2 wires go frontally (only one backwards). The "wire" I saw couldn't it be a 2nd one, upper, and the one you show on the video, Roy, a lower one? Both go toward the back (in the picture of the Delage, the front is to the right). In the following rather hard to find video (one of the last I encountered in the Youtube list during my Delage research) from 1:02 you can see that both cables end at the same pulley. I guess one is for the parking brake while the other one is for the regular brake. 29 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said: You think I should remove it? Or just to be sure, ask Paul. By the way I'm not even sure whether the copyright lies with Revs / Collier, as the photos were made by Peter Harholdt. I know most of you are sighing (again) 'this guy is so anal about copyrights'... and you're certainly right but I think I was mentally deformed a bit by seeing several problems that can arise if not living up to the rights of copyright holders. But I admit, I can sometimes be a bit overly law-abiding. Edited January 28, 2017 by Roy vd M. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 My god! If that version is the good one (we have different ones...), Agnelli was really a crazy megalomaniac, with no consideration at all for men who worked so hard for his own brand... I will send to Sebastien your post.... Thank you anyway, great job! All the best Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said: I know most of you are sighing (again) 'this guy is so anal about copyrights'... and you're certainly right but I think I was mentally deformed a bit by seeing several problems that can arise if not living up to the rights of copyright holders. But I admit, I can sometimes be a bit overly law-abiding. No, I don't say that. It's true that I am not aware as you are of copyright problems, but I think you are right to be careful. Thank you for that amazing video taken at Rev's, showing very useful details, even if we build the Fiat... Waiting for Paul's authorization, I remove the photo... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Dear Olivier Agnelli (1866-1945 ) was an officer of the Italian cavalry ! Maybe he loved horses more than men ? Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 20 hours ago, Hannes said: Dear Harvey yes this car teaches us how to become hawk eyed : One thing I spotted too ; On the radiator case there are 5 bolts or srews on each side : But there are two very small rivets or screws behind them ! Amazing , isn´t it ! Regarding this construction under the frame of the car´s left side I tend to believe I could see hanging oil pipes with a support sheet ( photo 10 ) What else could it be ? Many greetings ! Hannes Hannes you must buy a Macbook! Your hawk eyes deserve such an amazing tool! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Dear Olivier ; I try to avoid too much electronics so no Macbook : Of course I don´t live in a complete stone- age because sometimes I like to play a good RPG on one of my consoles : Another topic : I just elongated one of my frames rails and also my bottom sheet :Now the whole appearance of the model ( with changed angle of the frame ) is entirely different compared with the clumsy Protar construction. Only 4-5 mm elongation of the rear frame and a slightly different angle make a huge difference , it´s unbelievable ! After altering the other rail difficult adaption works will follow . The engine and the exhaust pipes must get involved in these works . My goal is a lowered body on a frame with a tiny ledge and a radiator case that fits between the rails so also bending measures have to be done ! The last crossbeam will be a brass consruction with 1,4 mm thread - wire inside .At this spot also these triangular parts must get altered .same goes for the openings for the rear axis . When all these works are done ,I must find ways for invisible firm connections . Finally the bonnets need to get adapted and the parts under the pipes must get involved . You see , there´s a lot of work for the next weeks and months. Next steps after that will be the axes and the steering system. You see there´s a plan necessary when altering a kit in a fundamental way .But a complete scratchbuild would be more difficult and time - consuming imho , so I will keep on going this way . Many greetings ! Hannes 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) New measures (made before the frame angle correction), to check the proportions between different points. On the up photo, the measures to consider are the red ones, made after ponderation (coeff. 1,17 x between both photos). The reference mesure is the fairing height, 50. Of course, there is a little error margin, but IMHO, I can draw the following conclusions (maybe some of you will contest these conclusions what I can admit but it is my way to check with what we have): 1) It is not so bad, there are little corrections to bring but, considering how wrong was the shape initially... 2) I see 3 corrections to make to be nearer from truth. They are yellow labelled 1, 2 and 3 on the up photo: - 1: the seat fairing must be modified in its lower part (as shown) going a little downwards than now, to get the good proportion: on the photo 1, the proportions are 23,5/ 28,7, while they are 25,27/ 25,74 on my build. The correction will be around 1,5 mm, enough because it will decrease the second value in the same time it will increase the first one. - 2: little correction, very easy, in this angle on the front part of the cockpit. - 3: the frame angle correction (done now, see above) will give me the occasion to improve this area, without needing I hope to add a plate (that would mean a lot of work for it not to be visible) Maybe you will see other corrections, maybe the difference of height between left and right side is a bit too important: 27,43 instead of 26. This would mean decreasing a little (less than 1,5 mm) the left side cockpit shape. This one has been deeply modified using particularly our photo 4, maybe a bit too increased in height... Edited January 29, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph add 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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