vontrips Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Funny! That's the one I was talking about (I thought it was at FM). We go there tomorrow (our host kindly booked it for us). It looks good ! Olivier, please crawl under and photograph all of their Porsche Spyders for me! Specifically, thr Porsche RSK (centre steer), Porsche RS60 and Porsche RS 61! Failure of this mission will end with self combustion over the Atlantic! Sadly, I think these cars were lost from the Collier Collection before the move! Oh, and some close-up interior porno shots of the Briggs Cunningham Le Mans Jaguar XKE coupe please! Now that, they still have! Edited December 30, 2016 by vontrips 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, vontrips said: crawl under You mean me to go under the car?? well, not sure they will allow me, but if they do, I will. You know, John, that there is nearly nothing I can refuse to you! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 Thanks for the picture Hannes... As ultimate proof of our extreme research I've checked thousands of photos of vintage scrapyards and look what I found... the Fiat 806 heat shield!! Ok I need a bit of a rest 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Funny! That's the one I was talking about (I thought it was at FM). We go there tomorrow (our host kindly booked it for us). It looks good ! Olivier, please crawl under and photograph all of their Porsche Spyders for me! 1 hour ago, Olivier de St Raph said: You mean me to go under the car?? well, not sure they will allow me, but if they do, I will. You know, John, that there is nearly nothing I can refuse to you! Haha...Yes please! If the worst comes to the worst, some good interior pics of the E type coupe would be fab. Have an inkling they used XK 120 seats but never seen them photographed straight on! ;-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) On 30/12/2016 at 6:05 AM, Hannes said: Another important topic imho is the heat shield over the right exhaust pipe and how it was fixed. It seems to me as it was fixede to another sheet of metal,which was bended over the bodywork´s right opening. This sheet sheet also seems to be secured by a screw or tiny bolt on it´s left end. Hi guys, regarding this heat shield, for me, much better not to use neither the plastic part 56E, not the PE 2, to get the good U shape and the good thickness. More, once the body is cut to the good lenght, they are too long. I think I will make it with 0,3 mm thick alu foil, bent. Difficult for me to say if there is another sheet of metal, I just see a screw head on top and at the back of the heatshield... Edited December 31, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph add 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) Hannes, your drawing is very clean and neat, thank you. My above pic was sent before I saw yours. Now, we know you're a good drawer and you can post your drawings, good new! I would just say that the heatshield return on the "suspension sheet" is maybe right, maybe too long on your drawing, compared with what we can see (there is no return at all on the kit parts). In fact, we can't see where the return stops. The screw on my enlargement has probably no relation with the heat shield. I don't know what is it for... Edited December 31, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph add 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I suggest to everyone to go and put an eye (and even two...) to the internet site of the Rev's institute that I'm gonna visit this morning... Delage 1927, Bugatti T35 1930 etc. I think this visit should be quite interesting... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Dear Olivier the drawing was just schematic , not in scale. I have another question to you regarding the hood behind the driver´s seat .As I could see you made it somewhat higher. In my opinion it should get delayed too ,because the start at the car´s right side seems to be too low ( about 1,5 mm ) . I also intend to delay it a bit to the front (about 1,5 mm too ) to get the correct ratio between the bodywork´s parts. My question is about the height of the hood. How much has it to be changed in your opinion ? Many greetings ! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Dear Hannes, I have yet a lot of work to do on this rear hood behind the driver. The kit's part is wrong too, but, as for the fairing, I will need to compare different angle views to get the good shape. I will post a pic (or more...) about it when I will be there. We would need to have a top view to help us, but the drawing 2, pity, does not show the cockpit shape... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 According to drawing 1 it should end in the middle directly before the fuel cap. I´m not sure about this ,Unfortunately the phoios don´t show the whole truth. It also seems that Bordino covered the seat before the race (maybe to protect the suede to get soaked with water ) Good for Bordino´s back , but bad for us ! Many greetings ! Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) On 12/30/2016 at 2:10 PM, Olivier de St Raph said: 8. I think this 2nd excerpt was coming from SF too. Roy, feel free to contact him directly, as you speak french. His mail adress is in end of his book. You are a better finder than me, and I am sure you will get more from him than I did. Ok I will contact him directly, asking him my questions about the two books and Photos 21 and 22. On 12/30/2016 at 2:31 PM, Olivier de St Raph said: This is the article from which the little photo 22 was taken. This article was sent to me by SF. You already posted that, it's what I cropped Photo 22 from. Unfortunately I've not been able to find the original magazine online (for sale or scanned). 18 hours ago, vontrips said: Yep, first thing that struck me when I looked at the first period pics. No doubt bent over the nearest lamppost (in true Italian tradition!). The PE part is junk and Coke cans are your friend. I love the way Italeri spent so long making these useless PE parts when they could have been looking for the original Protar tyre moulds! Yep they could have easily made an accurate photo etch piece if they had added a jig for shaping / bending it. 18 hours ago, Hannes said: That's a nice drawing indeed, it's clear that you are an artist. Very clear! And I'm happy that you managed to upload a picture. Hopefully you can do that more often, it really has added value. I implemented the new info from the 'Automobili Fiat' book (29", 4,5", 5" tyre measurements) into Drawing 2. Given Nick's measurements and calculations this new version of the wheels may not be definitive, but it's better than the 30" of version 8 of the drawing. Today a magazine I ordered on Ebay arrived. It's Maquettes Plastique Magazine #118 from 1981. The magazine has ceased to exist. The article contains some build tips for the Protar kit and an enhanced version of Drawing 1. I think the version of Drawing 1 we have is older though and that the drawing as seen in the magazine is just a CAD-vectorized version of our Drawing 1. But of course we can't be sure. Here the article: Until today I didn't know this was the second part of a larger whole. So I ordered the other magazine also. I'll post scans when it arrives. A preview from the seller's ad: Interestingly the author mentions '2.400' as wheelbase and '1.300' as track gauge. If he had measured he'd reached the conclusion that on Drawing 1 (using 2.400 as a wheelbase) the track gauge was 1.230. That is over 5% too narrow. Other numbers mentioned by the author are to be checked. Here 'Gimped' Drawing 1B, for what it's worth: I'll add the amended Drawing 2 and the new Drawing 1B to the opening post. And now for some end-of-year fun facts regarding our car. Did you know that in the studio setting of Photos 1, 2 and 3 the tachometer had yet not been installed (perhaps they had to develop one that went up to 8,500 RPM)? Did you know that in Drawing 2 there's a round steering wheel? And id you know that the four bonnet clamps were attached to the frame by springs? They can be seen in Photos 1, 2 and 3 (you'll have to look carefully). Happy 2017 to all of you! Edited December 31, 2016 by Roy vd M. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 HI guys! Regarding the heat-shield....if you zoom in close on photo 1AA, the return looks about 1.5in deep and clearly visible is the end of a fixing, so this leads me to believe that the shield was fitted after exhaust installation by means of bolt or screw from inside the cockpit... .....at the rear, you can clearly see that the exhaust does not keep itself confined to the limits of the shield. Had the exhaust been replaced and no longer fit it's shield??? My earlier thoughts were that the shield had been cut and a piece put in, but on further inspection, I think this is the more likely solution...... Cheers, H 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Dear Harvey , I had similar deliberations when looking at this construction. And I agree with you that there could have been a second screw at the frontal end of the heat shield , where the mechanics could reach it easily. On the other hand I don´t believe that an extension on the rear shield was necessary to give the exhaust pipe more space.If you elongate the visible part of the pipe,you will see ,that it still fits under the shield even it bends upwards at that point. I also believed( like I can see on your drawing ) that a single triangular sheet was used for the rear fixation.If you look closely to photo 2 you can see ,that this is an illusion imho because this seems to be only the mark of the wrapped wire. We also can see the outline of a sheet at the beginning of the fairing. I´m not sure , if it really was bent over the body´s opening , but I believe ,a strenghtening sheet was necessary to prevent deformations of the body panel. On the photos Bordino was leaning his arm on the shield most of the time and when driving in sharp right hand turns there must have been a great force effect on that shield. Many greetings ! Hannes 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 Here a welcome to all visitors of this thread in 2017 and after... I do hope you'll enjoy all the research that has been done regarding this beautiful car the Fiat 806 and I am sure you'll be able to use some of our findings when modeling your version of the Fiat 806. When we started this thread 7 weeks ago we were happy to have as reference material 8 photos and 4 drawings of the car. Now we have 14 photos (including improved versions of 6 of the original photos, excluding several alternative versions), 1 documentary containing 8 scenes in which the Fiat is seen, 13 drawings (including improved versions of the original drawings, excluding alternative versions) and a wealth of extra information about the look of the car and its history. I am sure there is much more out there, many items of which we'll never be able to find. Photographs of the interior... they probably exist, hidden away in one archive or another. Photographs of possible tail damage (remember, Photo 8 was retouched... body damage could be a reason) may also exists, somewhere in a photo album in a dusty box in an Italian attic. Our research been a thrilling and rewarding ride thus far and I hope this is not the end... surely there is more to be potentially discovered by us! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Dear friends ! I want to wish all of you a happy new year ! Let´s also think of the 806 metal parts ! Where do they hide today ? Maybe in your kitchen... as a knife or an aluminium foil... These mysteries can`t get unraveled by us... But about the rest I`m confident : We will find out ! Many greetings ! Hannes 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Happy New Year to you all!!! May 2017 be the "year-of-the-scratchbuild" Cheers, H 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) First of all, a happy new year to all! I have not enough time now to come back on the last posts, but: When I look accurately at our photos 1, 2, I think the heat shield was fixed directly on the body, without any other sheet. If there was another sheet as Hannes suggested, we would see its limits. Edited January 1, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph add 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Dear Olivier ,the limits can be seen imho ! The frontal limit goes straight upwards and the sheet was slipped into the tiny gap of the fairing´s angle. The rear limit is slanted for obvious reasons in my opinion. These limits can be seen on photo 1 and 2 as well but it get´s clearer if you look at photo 2.Of course this sheet must have been very thin imho ,but strong enough to strenghten the shield´s suspension. Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Dear Hannes, on this photo 3 wide enlargement, I don't see any front limit for this sheet, even very thin: On this enlargement of photo 2, there is a little line interrupted in the middle. Maybe that's what you mean... Difficult to say if it is the front limit, maybe it is: Edited January 1, 2017 by Olivier de St Raph add 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Of course I looked at this photo too .It ´s resolution does not seem to be high enough to show these kind of details. If I only would have seen the fine outlines on photo 2 ,I maybe would have believed to see an Sciaparelli-effect ( channels of Mars ) But photo 1 shows the same outlines .I admit , they are very hard to see , but they exist imho. Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 Olivier you don't have the latest / highest resolution version of Photo 3. That would look like this: Compare: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 On photo 3 the relevant region inside the fairing is darkened by the shadow. Olivier showed us the limit imho on his second photo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) I picked colors from this photo... (Copyright Car_Revs_Daily, educational and referential purposes only, picture will be deleted upon first request) ...and filled the Fiat (Drawing 2 v9) with those colors. I'm looking forward to learning what will be your favorites (beware that different computer monitors may display colors in a different tone... but well we have to start somewhere don't we). Beware: some body lines and the numbers are just sketched so they should not be used as reference material! A B C D E if you don't like any of the above colors (or if you don't feel that they are correct), please pick the one closest to your tast and try to describe how it should be amended. Edited January 2, 2017 by Roy vd M. Disclaimer 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 "A" is the closest to what i know about the original rosso corsa ( slightly slightly lighter, more vibrant, like the red in the Italian flag) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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