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vppelt68

The Boeing B-17 STGB Chat

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Hello everyone,

Long ago I promised to build a FROG 1/72 B-17E for this GB.

I still have it and have been slowly collecting after market parts to improve it a little.

 

I’ve been away from BM due to very poor health. My knowledge has slipped a little, I wanted to ask advice of other BritModellers.

 

I think that the B-17E May have had different propellors to the B-17F. Could anyone confirm this and perhaps recommend some nice after market ones?

 

I would like to model one of the early UK based aircraft. I have equipped myself with many sets of ‘Kits World’ brand transfers for code numbers, lettering and so on.

 

Does anyone have any requests? The FROG kit decals and colour schemes look fine, but I thought it would be nice to individualise the model a little.

 

Finally, the wheels in the kit are very plain. Nevertheless, I’ve watched video of B-17’s and some appear to have wheel covers with designs painted on, in which case, the FROG wheels somewhat capture the look.

 

Any thoughts on wheels on a U.K. based B-17E?

 

Thank you for any information,

Best regards

TonyT

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1 minute ago, LostCosmonauts said:

ooh hadn't seen this GB before. This might be the push I need to finally do the B-17 that has been lurking in my Revell 8th AF boxset

Not just a push - can't you feel this pulling you towards it? Welcome aboard! V-P

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Shame this has arrived, would like to have a 2nd attempt at having an olive drab b-17g but no way it’s going to happen, can’t see getting the victor done early enough to join in 

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On 10/15/2018 at 10:34 AM, TonyTiger66 said:

Hello everyone,

Long ago I promised to build a FROG 1/72 B-17E for this GB.

I still have it and have been slowly collecting after market parts to improve it a little.

 

I’ve been away from BM due to very poor health. My knowledge has slipped a little, I wanted to ask advice of other BritModellers.

 

I think that the B-17E May have had different propellors to the B-17F. Could anyone confirm this and perhaps recommend some nice after market ones?

 

I would like to model one of the early UK based aircraft. I have equipped myself with many sets of ‘Kits World’ brand transfers for code numbers, lettering and so on.

 

Does anyone have any requests? The FROG kit decals and colour schemes look fine, but I thought it would be nice to individualise the model a little.

 

Finally, the wheels in the kit are very plain. Nevertheless, I’ve watched video of B-17’s and some appear to have wheel covers with designs painted on, in which case, the FROG wheels somewhat capture the look.

 

Any thoughts on wheels on a U.K. based B-17E?

 

Thank you for any information,

Best regards

TonyT

The E model did indeed have the narrower props - the paddle blades were introduced with the F model. The cowling was slightly shorter on the F Models onwards due to the wider props needing more room to feather but it's barely noticeable on the real aircraft let alone in 1/72 scale. 

 

Most early Europe-based Forts did indeed have the wheel hubs fitted but there are plenty of after market options out there should you wish for a more detailed wheel hub.

 

One thing to to be aware of is the vast majority of E Models sent to Europe had the later F-style cheek window set up, with a large square window in the middle left position and the forward right. These were field-mods and added to provide better defensive fire than the earlier three small windows and were then carried forward into early F model production. 

 

The interior of the nose and radio room would still have had the fabric liners fitted at this point so would be an olive green. Exposed metal in the flight deck would be dark dull green, with all other areas of the interior being left in natural aluminium. 

 

Hope that helps!

 

Tom

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@tomprobert - that’s a really handy summary (& heck of a lot I didn’t know). Is there a similar York Notes guide to the interior paint on a G model anywhere? I’m guessing the Revell instructions to splash a slightly yellow green everywhere are off the mark?

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2 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said:

@tomprobert - that’s a really handy summary (& heck of a lot I didn’t know). Is there a similar York Notes guide to the interior paint on a G model anywhere? I’m guessing the Revell instructions to splash a slightly yellow green everywhere are off the mark?

I’ve spent many years studying the interior colours of the B-17 and my research, although far from definitive, points to the following:

 

B-17 interiors of all models were unpainted with the exception of the flightdeck. Exposed metal in this area was bronze (or dark dull) green, with olive green padding on the sidewalls. The nose, bomb bay, radio room, rear fuselage and tail turret were left in natural aluminium. Some F models had the bomb bay painted in Neutral Grey, but I’ve so far not been able to trace the batch numbers of these aircraft. 

 

Models up to mid-batch Fs had an olive green sound deadening material fitted to the nose and radio room, but this was often removed in theatre.

 

Floors were natural wood with black anti slip mats fitted throughout. 

 

Interior Green was never, at any point, used in B-17 production, despite it usually being plastered all over the insides of 99% of B-17 models built. 

 

The above info comes from studying probably thousands of WWII era pictures as well as the Boeing production manual so I’m fairly confident it’s accurate. If you want any more detail then do ask as I’ve got lots of extra detail if needed. 

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Thanks a lot for that information, Tom! What about wheel wells, inside of flaps and engine cowlings then? How about interior bulkheads then, all bare aluminium too? V-P

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Good question V.P and @tomprobert if you don't mind me asking, do you have a favoured model paint brand for this Bronze / Deep Green? Preferably a Gunze, Tamiya, Model Masters brand however I'm open to other choices as well. 

 

Cheers and thanks for the great info above.. Dave 

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It made me do a quick internet search and gave me Humbrol #149 as dull dark green. Hohum. I think I must already have all the possible Hu green tins - except this, of course. V-P

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1 hour ago, vppelt68 said:

It made me do a quick internet search and gave me Humbrol #149 as dull dark green. Hohum. I think I must already have all the possible Hu green tins - except this, of course. V-P

Thanks VP, Hu149 also doubles as Foliage Green as well as US Medium Green I’m sure. Gunze 302 (FS34092) is pretty close. It’s ‘only’ a cockpit so as long as it’s not Interior Green is should be OK? 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

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2 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

Thanks a lot for that information, Tom! What about wheel wells, inside of flaps and engine cowlings then? How about interior bulkheads then, all bare aluminium too? V-P

Wheel wells, flaps and the inside of engine cowls are also natural aluminium. Some stringers and structural parts were DDG however, but it does seem to vary between the plants manufacturing them. Douglas-built B-17s seemed to use more primer than Boeing and Vega. If you Google the Lacy Lady restoration, it’s basically a time capsule and you can see the various interior colours of the wheel bays etc. as well as the remainder of the interior. Interestingly, they’ve already restored the nose section and have painted it - yes you guessed it - interior green! A colour that was never used at all!

 

The wooden doors in the bulkheads seem to be DDG from the factory, although I have seen a few examples left in natural wood. These certainly to be the exception rather than the norm though. 

 

The landing gear legs were neutral grey on the camouflaged B-17s, but switched to natural aluminium when paint was dispensed with. 

 

All interior bulkheads, with the exception of the rear of the nose compartment and flight deck, were aluminium. 

 

As for DDG, I use Humbrol 149 and have no idea regarding other manufacturers I’m afraid. 

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I have Boeing 307 in stash. Do we consider it a variant of B-17 or not?

Regards

J-W

 

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11 minutes ago, JWM said:

I have Boeing 307 in stash. Do we consider it a variant of B-17 or not?

Regards

J-W

 

Ever reliable Wikipedia says ...calling it the Model 307. It combined the wings, tail, rudder, landing gear, and engines from their production B-17C with a new, circular cross-section fuselage...

:hmmm:If it's just up to me, go for it! Anyone opposing the inclusion of Boeing 307 has time until the official beginning of this STGB to state his/her opinion and then loses power of speech :coolio:. V-P

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Well if it's going to go to an 'unofficial' vote, then @JWM's 307 is leading 2-0. 

It would be great to see this one included. 

 

Cheers.. Dave

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5-nil, and I'm not even sure of what we're voting on. I'm also not a GB participant, so my vote may not count. :)

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2 hours ago, Rob G said:

5-nil, and I'm not even sure of what we're voting on. I'm also not a GB participant, so my vote may not count. :)

This is either cutting edge political satire or a resounding endorsement that the Boeing 307 was just a B-17 with glandular issues. Either way I approve

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2 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said:

This is either cutting edge political satire or a resounding endorsement that the Boeing 307 was just a B-17 with glandular issues. Either way I approve

 

Eh... it's neither, sorry. Just me doing my usual pathetic attempt at being funny.

 

That said, from what was posted about the 307, it seemed to be a continuation of the line, at the very least it contained substantial elements of the B-17, which to my mind means that it should probably be allowed in. If late mark Spitfires are eligible for a Spitfire STGB, with their almost complete lack of commonality with the early versions, I don't see why the courtesy can't be extended to other types.

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A few more hours and the green flare will be fired! As I'm on a holiday trip to London and back at home in the early hours of monday, I wish you all a productive weekend! I think I can't even have any more inspiration for this build, but visiting the RAF Museum in Hendon on sunday, and seeing their Fortress in flesh, is something I expect very much! Have fun, I'll e joining you early next week. V-P

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Many thanks Gents. It means that I will go in with "307"

It looks more or less like here

131118131443-best-of-boeing---307-horizo

12056L.jpg

 

Regards

J-W

 

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It was interesting to learn, that the structural failure found guilty to the loss of the first production 307, lead to the fin extension beginning with B-17E and later variants! V-P

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