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Klear


Grumpy Modeller

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Hi,

 

I have a few questions regarding Klear I was hoping somebody could help me with.

 

I have always brush painted my models with Humbrol enamals and have never used Klear before to protect my models.

 

Is it ok to use brush Klear on to my models or do I need an airbrush ?

How many coats of Klear is usually required ?

If I apply Klear to matt paint does it leave a gloss finish when dry ?

Is there an alternative which would give me a matt finish ?

 

Any other advice would be much appreciated :)

 

Thanks

 

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20 minutes ago, Grumpy Modeller said:

Hi,

 

I have a few questions regarding Klear I was hoping somebody could help me with.

 

I have always brush painted my models with Humbrol enamals and have never used Klear before to protect my models.

Kleer is not for protection, unless used as sealer before weathering, 

 it's a self levellling acrylic gloss varnish. this is why canopies get dipped in it, it fill small imperfections, and makes them look clearer.

 

20 minutes ago, Grumpy Modeller said:

 

Is it ok to use brush Klear on to my models or do I need an airbrush ?

no, can be applied with a flat brush

20 minutes ago, Grumpy Modeller said:

How many coats of Klear is usually required ?

If I apply Klear to matt paint does it leave a gloss finish when dry ?

it's mostly used pre decalling, as decals work better on a gloss or smooth surface, to avoid 'silvering' decals, caused by trapped air, on a microscopic level matt paint is 'rough' 

and it can be used to bed decals down, apply to area, put decal on and press down to remove excess, 

I used this technique here, and it worked really well, 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235008978-revell-hurricane-1144th-daughters-first-build-with-dads-help/

note that the code letters and roundel are one decal, and no slivering.

 

you need as many coats as required for a smooth surface.

It's also used after decalling,  pre weathering, with oils, as it seals and protects the surface, and allows oils to be removed with enamel thinners, being acrylic its not affected by enamel thinners.    

you can just use gloss paint instead, for example Xtracrylix are gloss acrylics, and are meant to be matt varnished after decalling.

20 minutes ago, Grumpy Modeller said:

Is there an alternative which would give me a matt finish ?

 

Any other advice would be much appreciated :)

 

Thanks

 

a matt varnish, but that's not why you would apply Kleer, as you want a glossy finish,    artist matt acrylic varnish work well, but there are plenty out there.  I don't now if it's a good idea to use an enamel type varnish over Kleer.

 

I found Xtracrylix varnish to dry with a satin finish on the Hurricane build linked above,  but got dead matt with some Polyvine 'dead flat' which I used on this

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235002739-australian-infantry-airfix-132nd/

which is very matt.

 

A look through the work in progress wil trun up many photos and descriptions of the techniques I mention in passing above.

 

HTH

T

 

 

 

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Personally I wouldn't bother with the stuff we have here in the UK.  I've had no end of problems with it since I ran out of the bottle my mother bought about 10-20 years ago, the stuff that was actually clear.  The milky replacement, that unfortunately I bought 2 bottles of last year, just hasn't worked well for me at all, from just not giving a decent layer/shine (despite putting down multiple very wet coats) to actually turning orange/yellow and with a orange peel effect over a white paint job before it had even been down an hour...

 

I have a bottle of the "proper" Klear from the US on the way, but it's an expensive initial outlay imho, at £14.80 including shipping, which kind of negates the reasons for buying Klear in the first place - it was cheap for what it is and does (did, until they changed the formula here in the UK).  But then I guess even at £14.80 a bottle it's still cheaper than buying small pots of gloss varnish at about £3 per 10ml pot.  Hopefully the guy selling it to us in the UK will continue to do so for a long while yet.

 

I went to using W&N Galeria varnishes (thinned 20% with water as recommended by others here at Britmodeller) because of the problems I had with the UK version of Klear (and because they're cheaper by volume than small 10ml pots), but found that I started to get problems with those also, they worked fine until 1 day I found that I got the chalky white effect from the matt varnish whilst spraying, even though it was from the same 17ml dropper bottle I had mixed a while back and had used just fine until that day - might have been me spraying too close or the weather I don't know which. 

 

Recently I have gone over to Tamiya's acrylic varnishes, and they've worked great so far, thinned 50/50 with UMP thinners, they spray great, just like their acrylic paints.  Would definitely recommend them if you want a matt varnish to put down over your layers of Klear.

Edited by Raven Morpheus
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I use Original Klear with a flat brush all the time. Used over matt paint, it will darken the shade slightly. If you have brushmarks in the paint, a couple of coats of Klear will make them disappear. I use it for applying decals if they cover a large area, and some decals are difficult to handle without it.

I use a lot of spray cans for painting. Halfords Appliance White is bombproof on it's own, and Klear does not affect it at all. Modern 'milky' Klear is the same formula plus a fragrance. It appears milky in the bottle but I am reliably informed it performs in the same way as the old stuff. As an alternative, use Lakeland Quickshine. Pound for pound, it's the same price as Klear. They both give a high gloss finish over any paint, but beware if used over Xtracolour, make sure it has dried and gassed out for at least a week, or it will react. To achieve a matt finish without an airbrush, light mist coats of Citadel Purity Seal from Games Workshop gives excellent results. Some people swear by W&N Gallerea matt varnish, but it must  be thinned and airbrushed or it will dry to a white powder coat.

 

I hear what RM says above. I don't know what he is doing wrong to have those problems. The fact that Klear changes hands for high prices and he is still buying it from USA tells you how highly it is regarded.

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FYI Klear in the UK is not the same formula as it used to be, with just the milky colour and perfume added.  Plenty of people have found it to be not as good as it was before it was made milky and plenty of people have experienced similar issues as I have (either that or I've read a lot of threads by the same person all over the internet) - the orange peel problem is even noted on Swanny's models page about using Klear - http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html.

 

That is why people are now buying the US version - because it works like the UK version did before it was changed to the milky scented variety.

 

Watch this if you want some reliable info about Klear (I think Phil Flory also did another video about using Klear but I can't find it at this time, it might be in the tutorials section of his website, which is members only) -

 

 

Edited by Raven Morpheus
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What's Mr Flory doing with my media Keyboard? :angry: Whoever decided that putting the F-keys as modifiers (a.k.a. pressing Fn to get your F-key) needs shooting. :boom:

 

As an addendum to Klear, I can HEARTILY recommend AK Interactive's Gauzy as a gloss coat, and as you can see from my review here, I'm absolutely besotted with it ^_^

 

One last thing - Klear can be turned matt by adding Tamiya Flat Base to the mix, although I can't remember the correct proportions off the top of my head.  I've done it once and got good results, but you MUST stir up the Flat Base thoroughly to ensure that the pumice is equally distributed through the liquid.

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

One last thing - Klear can be turned matt by adding Tamiya Flat Base to the mix, although I can't remember the correct proportions off the top of my head.  I've done it once and got good results, but you MUST stir up the Flat Base thoroughly to ensure that the pumice is equally distributed through the liquid.

 

I'm not pimping for Phil or anything but he's got a tutorial video on his site that shows that you can use gloss varnish and get a matt finish without adding anything to the gloss varnish...

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30 minutes ago, Mike said:

I think Swanny's Models has one too... they're out there, so don't be afraid to Google :)

 

Probably.  Just amazed me when I came across it in a video by Phil Flory, he also explains the reasons why certain things happen and shows you - I haven't seen it anywhere else, but I've not really been looking for it.  Easier imo to just use matt varnish.

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Some people struggle to find a matt varnish they can get on with, and I suppose when Klear was readily available, it made sense to use it, as you'd get around 750ml for a couple of quid.  Add the cost of some Flat base, and it's still a very cheap matt varnish, and people know how to spray it.  I've been using AKAN Flat Varnish lately, and as long as you spend a good while agitating it, you get a decent matt.  If you want to go FLAT crazy, the Alclad range will let you go insanely matt, but they take quite a while to dry off properly.

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19 minutes ago, Parabat said:

+1 for the Alclad varnishes, the matt is ridiculously matt!

 

It can actually suck the vibrance out of your paint if you put a bit too much on.  Good for adding a little fading to your upper surfaces though... looks like oxidised paint if you put it on a bit thick in multiple coats. :)

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On 31/10/2016 at 4:34 PM, Mike said:

Some people struggle to find a matt varnish they can get on with, and I suppose when Klear was readily available, it made sense to use it, as you'd get around 750ml for a couple of quid.  Add the cost of some Flat base, and it's still a very cheap matt varnish, and people know how to spray it.  I've been using AKAN Flat Varnish lately, and as long as you spend a good while agitating it, you get a decent matt.  If you want to go FLAT crazy, the Alclad range will let you go insanely matt, but they take quite a while to dry off properly.

 

I'd second this advice about the properties of the Alclad range. I find them very user friendly, especially through an airbrush. I think people have this rosy view of Klear that isn't quite matched by reality; yes, for the time it was a good gloss coat but at the end of the day it was just floor varnish. I still use it occasionally for dipping canopies but there are much better alternatives out there now for the discerning modeller. 

 

Just my personal view for what it's worth, ymmv

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Another one here for both AK gauzy intermediate gloss and alclad matt 👍🏿

 

I have also had good results adding some tamiya flat base into alclad aquagloss to get varying levels of matt, needs to be thoroughly mixed though. 

 

 

As to the flory thing - I imagine the matt with gloss trick would be spraying the gloss not thinned alot and very 'dry and dusty' from a great distance to get a rough and therefore matt surface? 

 

Tony. 

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