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Procopius

Восток — дело тонкое (1/72 Trumpeter Su-24M FENCER-D)

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Looking forward to seeing her loaded PC, however many stores you decide to load... your choice, especially after the diaper incident :sick: Changing mat required?

I agree with you on weathering - I find it hard to get it 'just right' at scale, rather than looking at it and thinking "Yep, that's had weathering products applied".

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21 hours ago, CedB said:

I agree with you on weathering - I find it hard to get it 'just right' at scale, rather than looking at it and thinking "Yep, that's had weathering products applied".

 

Sometimes not even that. I always feel like a champ when I buy weathering products. Oh boy! Here it comes! Taking my modelling to the next level! 

 

Nope. Never happens. What looks terrific on other builds or in glossy, overpriced how-to books showing six kits I'll never build built in a way I wouldn't enjoy doesn't translate to what happens when I use a wash on a model kit, a task so simple that a dog could do it, if a dog had thumbs.

 

31637244456_caead958cf_h.jpg20161215_231254 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

 

I used Mig's blue-grey panel line wash to try and provide a delicate accentuation (ha-ha) of the Flanker's panel lines without being too obtrusive. You can, or can't, as the case may be, see it applied above.

 

31558595671_e6d6593f0a_h.jpg20161215_231259 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

31301546050_2f827865b2_h.jpg20161215_231306 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Useless. Why bother. 

 

I stopped because the enamel fumes were getting to me, but what a pointless waste of time. I just don't know how to weather and it seems like it would suck to try and learn.

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As a kid I used to use the contents of the jar that I used to was my brushes in for 'weathering'. My approach to weathering of WWII aircraft is that many of them never lasted long enough to weather. But my opinion is probably in the loony minority so don't take any notice.

 

Looking good despite the unfortunate outlay on one the of the myriad washes out there (why not just tint or shade an existing paint with stocks in hand, I think). I'm even getting to the rather cantankerous point that resin aftermarket is cheating.

 

Cheers,

Grumpy Old Goat :sheep: <-- not a goat

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The port side looks fine to me PC - just a nice bit of 'fuzziness' around the panels and dirty rivets - good job!

I find it hard to judge just the right time to wipe off the wash (using an old makeup sponge of Mrs B's) - too soon and the sponge sucks it all up, too late and it's really hard to get off.

Tricky.

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Personally I think less is more when it comes to weathering.

 

I look at some of the works of art out there and think that's just what they are, works of art but wholly unrealistic.

 

If I'd walked out of the Line Hut and found my aircraft in the state some modellers produce, I'd walk right back in, throw the Form 700 at the Chief and put the entire see-off team on a fizzer PDQ!

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On 12/14/2016 at 7:22 PM, Procopius said:

 

Dear boy, the only things I have to do are pay taxes and die. And whatever Mrs P tells me to do, until her back is turned, anyway.

 

I would say for me, weathering an aircraft feels optional, because aircraft are rarely a single colour. Tanks tend to be pretty bland, and they need the help. 

 

 

I changed a particularly foul diaper and got none of it on me or the duvet!

Well said that man, factory fresh anyone?

By the way, it had to go SOMEWHERE, so if it didn't go on you or the duvet, where DID it go? Are we using non standard weathering techniques on the carpet?

 

Ian

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3 hours ago, limeypilot said:

By the way, it had to go SOMEWHERE, so if it didn't go on you or the duvet, where DID it go? Are we using non standard weathering techniques on the carpet?

 

 

It went into a frustratingly-difficult-to-open plastic bag, which was then sealed, sort of like some alien goop found by the X-Files agents. Not a smidge elsewhere. HERO DAAAAAAD

 

 

I put some more wash on the kit and left it overnight to dry (a bit, it's enamel after all) and went and wiped it down this morning. It looks a little better, anyway.

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13 hours ago, Procopius said:

 

Sometimes not even that. I always feel like a champ when I buy weathering products. Oh boy! Here it comes! Taking my modelling to the next level! 

 

Nope. Never happens. What looks terrific on other builds or in glossy, overpriced how-to books showing six kits I'll never build built in a way I wouldn't enjoy doesn't translate to what happens when I use a wash on a model kit, a task so simple that a dog could do it, if a dog had thumbs.

 

31637244456_caead958cf_h.jpg20161215_231254 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

 

 

I stopped because the enamel fumes were getting to me, but what a pointless waste of time. I just don't know how to weather and it seems like it would suck to try and learn.

Bang this on your "Santa I'd like" list sharpish PC:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Weathering-Martyn-Welch/dp/1874103119

Yes,I know its primarily aimed at railway modellers,but it is an absolute bible for weathering and shows you step by step how to.

Here is his site with some of his work:http://martynwelch.com/

Some of them look like you can climb aboard and drive them away.

13 hours ago, AlexN said:

As a kid I used to use the contents of the jar that I used to was my brushes in for 'weathering'. My approach to weathering of WWII aircraft is that many of them never lasted long enough to weather. But my opinion is probably in the loony minority so don't take any notice.

 

Looking good despite the unfortunate outlay on one the of the myriad washes out there (why not just tint or shade an existing paint with stocks in hand, I think). I'm even getting to the rather cantankerous point that resin aftermarket is cheating.

 

Cheers,

Grumpy Old Goat :sheep: <-- not a goat

No Al,you're not in the loony minority,you're pretty much right on the money.

8 hours ago, Ascoteer said:

Personally I think less is more when it comes to weathering.

 

I look at some of the works of art out there and think that's just what they are, works of art but wholly unrealistic.

 

If I'd walked out of the Line Hut and found my aircraft in the state some modellers produce, I'd walk right back in, throw the Form 700 at the Chief and put the entire see-off team on a fizzer PDQ!

Absolutely correct Deb,as I've said before,paint what you see,not what you think you see.

Can't be doing with these pre-shaded,post shaded,pin washed and lord knows whatever other "techniques"are in fashion "works of art".

They're not works of art,they're awful.Totally unrealistic and nothing like any aeroplane that is being used that I've ever come across in real life.

Edited by Miggers

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5 minutes ago, Miggers said:

Bang this on your "Santa I'd like" list sharpish PC:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Weathering-Martyn-Welch/dp/1874103119

Yes,I know its primarily aimed at railway modellers,but it is an absolute bible for weathering and shows you step by step how to.

Here is his site with some of his work:http://martynwelch.com/

Some of them look like you can climb aboard and drive them away.

No Al,you're not in the loony minority,you're pretty much right on the money.

Absolutely correct Deb,as I've said before,paint what you see,not what you think you see.

Can't be doing with these pre-shaded,post shaded,pin washed and lord knows whatever other "techniques"are in fashion "works of art".

They're not works of art,they're awful.Totally unrealistic and nothing like any aeroplane that is being used that I've ever come across in real life.

Martyn is a top bloke, and was a huge influence on me and my old man when we started modelling seriously back in the 90s. He used to be editor for a while of Mode railway journal which is like food porn for modellers. A throughly nice bloke too, I remember meeting him nearly 20 years ago and he was happy to share the secrets of his skills with a youthful 06/24. It's a fab book. 

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Once I get started I really enjoy weathering.....It's the getting started that's the issue for me.  :blush:

 

It can be tricky to get washes to take in vaguely defined panels like those on your model.....I often just apply a miniscule dot of neat oil paint to the panel and then turn it into a localised and very concentrated pin-wash, in situ, using a brush moistened in thinners to gradually remove the pigment.  It's a somewhat laborious process, but so is doing countless pin-washes and this way the effect does at least remain on the model when you are done.  ;)

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My biggest challenge is learning to vary colour and visual texture as subtly as possible nowadays. I think sometimes the word 'weathering' is itself a bit problematic, as - in the case of aircraft - there can be a host of factors affecting the optics of the airframe. Wood37s Lightning is an example of something recently done very well in my book with regard to the subtleties involved in relation to source photographs.

 I do think it's important to keep an open mind though. Some operational aircraft in WW2 were, for example, genuinely heavily-weathered due to the wear and tear of operations on the paint of the time in extremes of climate, whilst some other aircraft in second-line and training squadrons were clearly less than pristine hand-me-downs. 

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Current state of play:

 

30846760194_37e234ed40_h.jpg20161216_165122 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

31688231485_87df7990ad_h.jpg20161216_165130 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Meh, you know? 

 

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

My biggest challenge is learning to vary colour and visual texture as subtly as possible nowadays. 

 

I find that very difficult. I have poor colour perception and I absolutely hate mixing paint or fussing about with modulation. The stuff one seems to need to do to replicate this, for instance:

 

Beaufighter_serviced_in_tNorth-W-African

 

Seems like it would be tedious and unpleasant. Or take the leading edge and badly fitting panels on this Seafire:

 

trXUNTi.jpg

 

Beyond me.

 

8 hours ago, Miggers said:

as I've said before,paint what you see,not what you think you see.

 

Frankly I don't really feel like I'm a good enough modeller to paint what one actually sees, or that the time spent getting it right would be a worthwhile investment of a very limited resource for me. Not to say that what Alex or Cookie or Perdu or Tony or whomever does isn't impressive; it's just that I don't feel like experiencing the heartache required to get to their level. I fail enough in real life.

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If it's any consolation Edward, my wife Catherine often has to come along after I've painted a room at our house and tidy up my rather 'weatherly' domestic painting style...

 

Love those photos BTW. Is that second one of the Seafire colourised b&w or a genuine colour exposure do you know?

 

 

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For what it's worth, PC, I think your Fencer looks quite nice! I'm very tempted to pick this kit up myself, but I doubt it would come out as nicely as yours has. In terms of weathering, lately I've been using a Testors' product called 'CreateFX'; it's an acrylic wash and I use the 'black' colour (it's more of a disgusting dark greenish colour that H.P. Lovecraft would have probably called 'ichor'). Being acrylic, it's quite easy to wash off. At any rate, I've had some success with it on my very humble efforts.

 

Regards,

 

Jason  

 

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33 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Love those photos BTW. Is that second one of the Seafire colourised b&w or a genuine colour exposure do you know?

 

Oh, it's real. And it's spectacular.

 

34 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

If it's any consolation Edward, my wife Catherine often has to come along after I've painted a room at our house and tidy up my rather 'weatherly' domestic painting style...

 

My extensive experience in masking Spitfire camouflage (and foolish advertising of this fact) means I generally get household painting chores assigned to me and few excuses brooked.

 

15 minutes ago, Learstang said:

For what it's worth, PC, I think your Fencer looks quite nice! I'm very tempted to pick this kit up myself, but I doubt it would come out as nicely as yours has.

 

In truth, I think I made a few schoolboy errors that cost me a lot in terms of surface detail. Anyone exercising a modicum of care should get a better result.

 

In other news, Mrs P is coming down with something, or rather, remains down with something, since she decided to stop taking her prescribed antibiotics...presumably because she was dropped on the head pretty hard as a child* and discounts the advice of subject matter experts for no reason. Amusingly, nothing enrages her more than when the parents of her students do it to her, so perhaps it's some twisted form of transference. Anyway, that means I'll soon be sick, and likely in Michigan as well, from the 22nd on, which is the worst of both worlds. I may risk a Christmas rupture and insist on staying home if I do fall before the onslaught of her germs. I don't mind being miserable for the holidays, but it's got to be one or the other, not both.

 

* = This is unkind. She actually fractured her skull about eight years ago in a horrific cycling accident -- always wear your helmet, kids. Or better yet, don't ride bicycles. 

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10 hours ago, Miggers said:

I look at some of the works of art out there and think that's just what they are, works of art but wholly unrealistic.

 

Oil paintings, I call 'em. Impressionist oil paintings. And sometimes Surrealist.

 

18 hours ago, Ascoteer said:

Personally I think less is more when it comes to weathering.

 

I look at some of the works of art out there and think that's just what they are, works of art but wholly unrealistic.

 

If I'd walked out of the Line Hut and found my aircraft in the state some modellers produce, I'd walk right back in, throw the Form 700 at the Chief and put the entire see-off team on a fizzer PDQ!

 

Ah, thought as much! (and said so elsewhere, methinks)

 

10 hours ago, Miggers said:

No Al,you're not in the loony minority,you're pretty much right on the money.

 

My goodness me, I fink I gunna die of a 'eart attack (or a nart attack). Not all that used to people agreeing with me.

 

 

2 hours ago, Procopius said:

what Alex or Cookie or Perdu or Tony or whomever does isn't impressive;

 

What? You're kidding! It must be another Alex in here, 'snot me! I will treat that as such. Nice photo of a Seafire there, nearly added it to my Seafire thread but squibbed for some reason (copyright fears, I think) and added a link to the relevant page.

 

Cheers,

A. :sheep: <-- not weathering requisites (although it could be...)

 

 

Edited by AlexN
Added some Surrealism, for fun. And because it is. Often.

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51 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Love those photos BTW. Is that second one of the Seafire colourised b&w or a genuine colour exposure do you know?

 

Real, I would say. By a professional. Ah, answered by The Historian :). I rests me case, Me Lud.

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Sorry to hear about Mrs. P., Mr. P. Soonest you get the son and heir enrolled into medical school, the better for both of you....

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I'm with the others PC - she looks great! Definitely worth much more than 'Meh'... I mean, just look at those white bits!1 :) 

 

5 hours ago, Procopius said:

Frankly I don't really feel like I'm a good enough modeller to paint what one actually sees, or that the time spent getting it right would be a worthwhile investment...

 

I'm with you Egbert! I enjoy building the kits and trying new techniques but my skill level, patience and attention to detail are far below the 'true modellers' here on BM. Aspirations are a OK but I need to be realistic or it just makes me grumpy. I've just spent a happy few minutes looking at Bill's latest RFI and, well, it's just way above what I think I could attain...

I'm going to be happy assembling kits, trying new things and feeling smug when something goes right. It's supposed to be fun and I'm going to enjoy it!

 

I hope Mrs P gets better soon and that you don't catch it. Debs told us at Telford that antibiotics are all about stopping the reproduction of nasty things which is why you need to complete the course to make sure they're all DEAD. Hopefully she's taken enough...

 

1 That reminds me of a story. At one point in my life I became too old to be a suitable partner for young ladies. No, really! I had to give up Dinosaur hunting too. Content with my new uncular role as a 'nice, harmless older man' I was still 'tested' on occasion. A lovely young thing I was working with had just come back from holiday and was nicely tanned. Responding to a suitable, non-threatening comment on this she surprised me by saying "Would you like to see my white bits?" and, before I could respond, held up her arm and moved back her watch strap...

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8 hours ago, CedB said:

That reminds me of a story. At one point in my life I became too old to be a suitable partner for young ladies. No, really! I had to give up Dinosaur hunting too. 

 

But...you loved dinosaur hunting!

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8 hours ago, CedB said:

Debs told us at Telford that antibiotics are all about stopping the reproduction of nasty things which is why you need to complete the course to make sure they're all DEAD. Hopefully she's taken enough...

 

Indeed, Most antibiotics (such as the Penecillin family) are Bacteriostatic as opposed to bacteriocidal. That is to say they interfere with bacterial replication.

 

If you don't complete the prescribed course of antibiotics, not only will they not be effective at stopping the infection, what you are effectively doing is putting the bacteria under a selective environmental pressure. In other words, you are selecting for bacterial antibiotic resistance.

 

Not to put Mrs P on a guilt trip, but she should bloody well feel guilty. She's helping to put us all at risk long term.

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10 minutes ago, Ascoteer said:

Not to put Mrs P on a guilt trip, but she should bloody well feel guilty. She's helping to put us all at risk long term.

 

Oh, I know. Mrs P's parents raised her with boundless faith in her own perspicacity, whereas mine raised me with crippling self-doubt and self-loathing. But out of the two of us, I am not the one who today felt they deserved a parking space at the supermarket so badly that they drove at high speed the wrong way down a one-way path and nearly ran down the person who collects the shopping carts. There's more to be said for self-loathing than you might think, it would seem.

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See. I am the sort of bloody minded individual that would stand right in the way  of such a vehicle and then sue the living daylights out of the driver if they so much as caressed me.

 

Actually no, scrub that.

 

I am the sort of bloody minded individual that would batter such a driver to within a sixteenth of an inch of their life with the 'Battle of Ballymurphy Memorial Skillet'...

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And so the world crumbles

 

Not only has Egbert revealed he wed a psychopath, now he thinks I DO weathering or preshading

 

 

I detest all that phony cr*p so much I have ceased buying magazines that regularly use them as 'completed builds by our favourite model maker'

 

I saw a magazine recently with beautiful scale drawings worth a king's ransom to me and any other TYPE X fan, and a veritable plethora of photographs of said machines in service

 

Lots of opportunities for weathering them, maritime ops do cause havoc to paintwork I concede willingly

 

But the model shown, a thing of beauty in the plastic then had deep black shaded underlines at every panel

 

Not one of the many photographs illustrating the article had lines of even a slight similarity

 

"Paint What You See Shall Be The First Law"

 

But I do admit to dusting on artists pastels and then de-dusting them so the dust comes away leaving a memory of their existence around some seams and surfaces thus treated or in some cases left to give a more solid area of tint

 

 

 

I've been taken to task over my outspoken (OK out-written) opinions of this school of artworks before

 

I expect to have my erroneous ways pointed out to me again

 

:(

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7 minutes ago, Ascoteer said:

I am the sort of bloody minded individual that would batter such a driver to within a sixteenth of an inch of their life with the 'Battle of Ballymurphy Memorial Skillet'...

 

Fortunately for me (since it would be my husbandly duty to interpose myself betwtixt you and receive uncomplainingly the blows meant for Mrs P) the hapless attendant vaulted out of the way and seemed weirded out when, to Mrs P's (minor, I grant you) displeasure, I apologized to her for the incident. 

 

8 minutes ago, perdu said:

Not only has Egbert revealed he wed a psychopath

 

Redhead. Subtle but important difference.

 

8 minutes ago, perdu said:

now he thinks I DO weathering or preshading

 

No, no, dear boy! I think you produce exquisite replicas of reality in miniature, far beyond my skills! Not mere pedestrian weathering.

 

Also, dullcoated the top of the Fencer, she looks pretty okay to me now:

 

31332394010_9e329567ed_h.jpg2016-12-17_01-27-20 by Edward IX, on Flickr

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