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1/72 - MiG-17F "Fresco-C" (re-issue) by AZmodel - released - new boxing

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And once again AZ failed to be true. The aircraft from Kiev exhibition was the "bare" MiG-17 (NOT -17F) - with longer, slimmer rear fuselage, smaller airbrakes and no afterburner. There are dozens of photos existing of this #02, several decal manufacturers all over the world have included this plane in various MiG-17 decal sets, a.s.o.

Moreover in late 50s all MiG-17s and -17Fs in Soviet service wore no camouflage. This 4 colour scheme has been introduced in early 70s, just before the Fresco retirement.

Cheers

Michael 

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OMG, East German signs are wrong!

 

On both sides from left black - red - yellow!

 

Hope it's misprint on the box.

 

modelldoc

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On 12.04.2018 at 12:27 AM, KRK4m said:

Moreover in late 50s all MiG-17s and -17Fs in Soviet service wore no camouflage. 

Not correct! 

What do you understand by Soviet service? If the Air Force, then you are right! However, if in general, then no! After the first line - VVS (Air Force), many MiG-17 got into the second line - DOSSAF (Voluntary Society for Assistance to Aviation and Fleet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOSAAF

), where some of them received camouflage:
1480095081_get_Images-111.jpg

Recource: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1315849_1480095030_getImage-1.jpg.html

1480095030_get_Image-1.jpg

Recource: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1315849_1480095081_getImages-111.jpg.html

1480081223_DSC00471.jpg

Recource: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1316066_1480154889_rrjor-17_0.jpg.html
1480081950_DSC00470.jpg

Recource: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1316066_1480154892_rrjor-17_1.jpg.html
1480154889_rrjor-17_0.jpg

Recource: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1315755_1480081223_DSC00471.jpg.html
1480154892_rrjor-17_1.jpg

Recource: 

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1315767_1480081950_DSC00470.jpg.htmvus.gif

Recource: http://avvakul.ru

 

General topic on Russian forum:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37754&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

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Serge,

I have NEVER said that there were no camouflaged MiG-17s sporting red stars. Read my post WITH UNDERSTANDING once again please :)

I just have said that AZ made the mistake (not for the first time though), as:

  • the very aircraft they portrayed was NOT MiG-17F, but earlier MiG-17 with unreheated VK-1A engine and slim airbrakes 
  • the camouflage they (properly) show was not introduced in the "late 50s" but in early 70s - both in the VVS and in the DOSAAF by the way

The photos (and the whole thread) you linked also shows ONLY unreheated variant and the pictures are dated 1982-83, thus they don't deny my words in any way

Cheers

Michael

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16 hours ago, KRK4m said:

Serge,

I have NEVER said that there were no camouflaged MiG-17s sporting red stars. Read my post WITH UNDERSTANDING once again please :)

I just have said that AZ made the mistake (not for the first time though), as:

  • the very aircraft they portrayed was NOT MiG-17F, but earlier MiG-17 with unreheated VK-1A engine and slim airbrakes 
  • the camouflage they (properly) show was not introduced in the "late 50s" but in early 70s - both in the VVS and in the DOSAAF by the way

The photos (and the whole thread) you linked also shows ONLY unreheated variant and the pictures are dated 1982-83, thus they don't deny my words in any way

Cheers

Michael

Michael,

In - the first, 1982-1983 it is date of filming of a photo. What implies that these planes were such at this time. However it doesn't disprove at all, as well as doesn't prove that these planes couldn't be received in such look from the Air Force.
Unfortunately we won't be able to ask about it the author because as appears from a topic he has died at the age of 44 years.
Secondly, depending on what you mean by the term "camouflage"? For me a camouflage
it is any coloring different from silver, but not acid, or a demo colourings, i.e. gray, green, blue, sand and e.t.c. colors.
Proceeding from it it is known about naval MiG-17 overal gray, 
which photo is "In Action"
Yes, it not the rule, this exception
from rules, but for this reason to say about what MiG-17 wasn't 
in a camouflage "in late 50" it isn't correct.

Because "overal grey" as for my it's camouflage - air superiority camouflage! ;-) 
Thirdly, I am not going to discuss kiev MiG-17 at all,
because it is the museum plane which can be painted with anything, anyone and somehow, but not as it was in army. Equally well it is possible to discuss participation in the Second World War of pink T-34, that the modern monument is so painted. :)
Therefore your remark, concerning cues MiG-17 correctly and valuably, but only for those who will want to make this museum plane. I don't treat those.

Because for my this kiev-camouflage identical Stolicnaya-camouflage, tree- shadow gray air-show camouflage.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S. Michael, taking an opportunity, you couldn't help to resolve an old dispute on Yak-23. The point is that there is a theory that Yak-23 had different diameter the air inlet. Disputes were rough, so nothing and not terminated, but at the same time there are no data about what volume the valid size the air inlet on live the plane! :)

 As I understand, you can measure diameter the air inlet on the Polish museum Yak-23.

Edited by Aardvark

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Serge,

So we have reached the consensus - for me also camouflage is any coloring different from silver.

Although the role played by MiG-17 and -17F in the VVS and in Polish Air Force was slightly different (most Polish-built Lims have been fitted with additional hardpoints for unguided rocket pods that made them rather close-support aircraft than fighters), the camouflage (featuring two-, three- or even four-colour uppersurfaces) appeared on Polish 17s in 1974-75. As the East German MiG-17s received camouflage also in the same period I really doubt if the VVS has introduced the camo od their -17s some 20 years earlier.

Of course (after some 15 years of my museum job) I know that plenty of museum artefacts (not only aircraft) are exhibited in schemes and colours that have never been sported by them during their service life. Nevertheless AZ should say "the Kiev museum example in 21st century" and not "the VVS machine from late 50s". And of course add the rear fuselage for unreheated variant :))

Concerning the Yak-23 actually there are two of them in Krakow (of 7 preserved in Poland as whole) and measuring the intake diameter is not a problem at all. You will have this data this week.

Cheers

Michael

 

BTW. Are there (even approximate) quantities known of the MiG-17 variants (-17, -17A, -17AS, -17F, -17R, -17P, -17PF, -17PFU) manufactured in the USSR? Some sources say that majority of them were the unreheated -17 while others name the reheated -17F the main (in numbers) variant. In Poland only the reheated variants (647 fighters and 129 radar-equipped interceptors) were manufactured, although a small number of unreheated Soviet-built MiG-17s have been also used.

     

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6 hours ago, KRK4m said:

Of course (after some 15 years of my museum job) I know that plenty of museum artefacts (not only aircraft) are exhibited in schemes and colours that have never been sported by them during their service life. Nevertheless AZ should say "the Kiev museum example in 21st century" and not "the VVS machine from late 50s". And of course add the rear fuselage for unreheated variant :))

Well, it's amazing that this plane still has red stars with it. If there was a good researcher, he could have written an article about this kiev museum plane and its history. But where are the good historians and researchers? Well, you understand what I mean .....

6 hours ago, KRK4m said:

Are there (even approximate) quantities known of the MiG-17 variants (-17, -17A, -17AS, -17F, -17R, -17P, -17PF, -17PFU) manufactured in the USSR?

Why approximate?

The number of MiG-17, depending on the modifications produced at different plants by year, can be seen in this table:

20180415_173152.jpg

( oh this postimage, 

constantly rotate image :( )

I think you will easily understand what is at issue despite the fact that the data in the Russian language. But if you need l translate!

I took this table from the book E. Podrepnyi "Jet breakthrough Stalin. History of the development of jet aviation in the USSR." 
20180415_173213.jpg

The source of this table is the 3rd volume of "Shavrov" which was E. Arsenyev, who is considered the most authoritative researcher of the history of the MiG in Russia, especially since he himself is a former MiG worker who has access to the MiG archives.

Therefore, there is no reason not to trust this data. The problem is only that a number of modifications about which you write, for example Cuba MiG-17 with AA missiles R-3

MiG17pino.jpg

(which many mistakenly refer to the MiG-17AS) were not made in factories from scratch, but were a modification made at repair plants. Here their number represents a riddle even for such authority in the field of MiG as E. Arsenyev, who participated in the discussion on this topic:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9857&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

6 hours ago, KRK4m said:

Concerning the Yak-23 actually there are two of them in Krakow (of 7 preserved in Poland as whole) and measuring the intake diameter is not a problem at all. You will have this data this week.

Many thanks!

 

Edited by Aardvark

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3 hours ago, Mike Esposito said:

Wow. That looks strange. Mig 17 without an afterburner AND with AA missiles...:blink2:

More about Cuba MiG-17 with AAM R-3:

http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG17-e.html

One Cuba MiG-17 escape to Florida when in airfield was Nixon Boeing 707.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

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Serge,

Great thanks for the production numbers!

Frankly speaking there is a misprint within the Arsenyev/Shavrov/Podrepnyi table as P/PF interceptors have been never manufactured in plants 126 and 153, while they were built in plants 21 and 31. But if you move leftwards the P/PF numbers horizontally the table will be OK :)

BTW I have been learning Russian language for 11 years (ending with B2 level state exam), so there is no problem with understanding the text in Grazhdanka.

 

Concerning the Yak-23 I have visited the museum today and the intake diameter at the very (station zero) tip of fuselage front is exactly 680 mm - hope it helps.   

Cheers

Michael

 

Edited by KRK4m

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14 hours ago, KRK4m said:

Serge,

Great thanks for the production numbers!

Frankly speaking there is a misprint within the Arsenyev/Shavrov/Podrepnyi table as P/PF interceptors have been never manufactured in plants 126 and 153, while they were built in plants 21 and 31. But if you move leftwards the P/PF numbers horizontally the table will be OK :)

It looks like you're right and it's really a typo. Here is an excerpt about the number of MiG-17Ps produced at plant 21 in 1953, information about which is not available in the table.

20180416_121350.jpg

 

I have made for you a photo of the remaining pages devoted to the production of the MiG-17P and MiG-17PF, as well as information on the production of experimental options at the plant 21.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/2e6fw5v0c/

It is unlikely that this information will be affected by anyone's rights since the circulation of this book has already been sold and can be found only on secondary market.

14 hours ago, KRK4m said:

I have been learning Russian language for 11 years (ending with B2 level state exam), so there is no problem with understanding the text in Grazhdanka.

Rozumiem też trochę po polsku.

;):)

 

14 hours ago, KRK4m said:

Concerning the Yak-23 I have visited the museum today and the intake diameter at the very (station zero) tip of fuselage front is exactly 680 mm - hope it helps.   

Many thanks! I need some time to pick up my data and do an analysis of these values.

 

B.R.

Serge

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