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White Knight - Short Crusader


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6 minutes ago, greggles.w said:

I don’t follow Dennis - d’you see something wonky?

Nothing at all. might be my wonky eyesight, but in the 1:1 pic isn’t the starboard float angled out a little more.  To counter the torque?  And yours?

 

Dennis

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Oooh, I wish I could claim I had noticed that & could indeed claim I’d knowingly captured it! If it is so, pure happenstance!

 

I’ve stared at these again .. you could be right, but it’s certainly a finely tuned thing.  There is precedent for such cleverness to compensate for torque with these machines, by varied methods.  No written account of it that I recall, but descriptions are so lean that doesn’t mean too much ..

 

Ever fascinating planes!

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I don't know what the situation is with the Crusader float-wise, but I can say that the Supermarine S5 has the starboard float set out to 3'10" compared to 3'2".

And the N219 airframe has a longer float by 4.5" on that side , but that may be because of the fuel tank that's incorporated in it. 

But if the Short had any asymmetric structure it would surely be noted somewhere in all the reference material you have, I'd have thought 

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On 3/31/2020 at 11:39 PM, Marklo said:

Well the hawker Fury (the biplane) has an angled tail plane and the Supermarine Walrus’s engine nacelle is offset by 10degrees, so it is vaguely plausible.  

 

On 4/1/2020 at 12:14 AM, rob Lyttle said:

I don't know what the situation is with the Crusader float-wise, but I can say that the Supermarine S5 has the starboard float set out to 3'10" compared to 3'2".

And the N219 airframe has a longer float by 4.5" on that side , but that may be because of the fuel tank that's incorporated in it. 

But if the Short had any asymmetric structure it would surely be noted somewhere in all the reference material you have, I'd have thought 

 

Yes Gents, the above design details you list are just the sort of thing that keeps me interested in these machines.  Design responding to problems!  And it slipped my mind in the moment, but I have since recalled I did find reference to at least one acknowledged manner by which the Crusader addressed torque.  It was by applying an offset aerofoil profile to the tail fin (see  Note offset fin! on plan below).  I did attempt to replicate this with a bit of asymmetrical sanding of the leading edge.  The outcome is subtle, but at least I won't be caught out by @DMC Dennis!

 

Mount_0

 

Next task, the 'in flight' mount.  It may have passed notice, but back since whenever, the primary jig has included a yellow strip on-edge, below the floats tucked in just behind the step ...

 

Mount_1

 

Mount_2

 

... this is actually a strip I cut out of a clear acrylic picture frame of some sort that I found in a $2 store.  The yellow is Tamiya tape for surface protection.  With the aircraft assembled, I have now revisited the notch profiles which have been ground out to receive the floats, using bits 'bobs for quick templates from the first finished to the next ...

 

Mount_3

 

The jig has always accommodated this mount, in fact it helped position the float steps ...

 

Mount_4

 

... but now I needed to somehow join it up permanently.  After a while I solved the riddle: position & tape the plane in jig, then bring the mount up from below to meet it.  But this would require yet more hacking into the cardboard jig ...

 

Mount_5

 

Mount_6

 

... so as to reveal the float steps from below ...

 

Mount_7

 

... when inverted ...

 

Mount_8

 

... to allow me to slot the mount down perpendicular to both the forward axis & ground plane ...

 

Mount_9

 

Fixed in place with clear jewellers cement - G-S Hypo Cement - used for fixing watch crystals & the like.  Claims to be strong & importantly doesn't craze the clear acrylic.  I've not used it before, & I found it is a little tricky in application, as most things seem to be the first time.  Helpfully any excess cement can be cleaned carefully off the unpainted acrylic with isopropyl alcohol.  This I did, but I wasn't quite careful enough, allowing a little marring of the white paint on the keel of one float - but it looks like it will buff out.

 

So, 12hrs later, & it seems to have done the trick!!

 

Mount_10

 

Mount_11

 

Mount_12

 

Sufficiently strong, suitably discrete (as much as such mount can be) & somehow appropriate for it to be supported 'on the step'.

 

So that's very pleasing, not just for this Crusader, but as proof-of-concept for similarly mounting other Schneider Racers as they make their way to the workbench!

 

Next: rigging.

 

** EDIT: note it was later revealed G-S Cement was not so ideal in this application as it had a measure of ‘flex’, never quite setting rock-hard.  I had to go back & refix with clear epoxy.

Edited by greggles.w
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A start to the rigging.

 

As an RAF machine, it follows that the rigging can be assumed to be the 'flat' cross-section RAF flying wires.  For this I have some RB Productions stainless wires.  They are made for 1/32 scale, but I selected the very smallest - which at that scale represents aileron control wires I think - to be near-enough for my purposes.

 

The trickier - & more unique - detail is the way these wires connect.  As can be seen here, they seem to have been shrouded in some sort of 'gusset', perhaps for waterproofing, or maybe streamlining?  The size of these junctions varies around the airframe, and in under each wing there is an instance where two wire ends meet to terminate in a common gusset.

 

Rigging_1

 

So this is my method I've worked up, from left to right in the image below:

 

1 - First pair show the length of wire - measured from the model with calipers & reduced a fraction - fixed with CA glue to some thin styrene sheet;

2 - Second pair show several hours later when a generous dollop of plastic cement is slathered on, and more styrene sandwiched on top;

 

Rigging_2

 

3 - A heavy weight sat on top overnight to weld the plastic sandwich together & embed the end of the wire;

 

Rigging_3

 

4 - The next single wire shows the day after, trimmed with a sharp blade on the sides, & sanded top & bottom & around to achieve the tapered shape;

5 - The final single wire in the tweezers shows this same plastic end after being significantly reduced following many rounds of trial fitting - but not trying to be fully reduced - then painted 'German grey';

 

Rigging_2

 

6 - One end fixed in place with CA & left as many hours as I can bear;

7 - The wire pulled taut with tweezers to allow for checking & carefully sanding back the mating face of the plastic gusset till it only just hovers against the receiving face;

8 - release the tension, a drop of CA on the end, and then tense & hold it in place;

9 - & lastly touch up the grey ends & paint the wire with a thin coat of Tamiya Smoke, as per RB Productions suggestion.

 

Rigging_4

 

Rigging_5

 

I reckon that'll do.  The plastic ends proved very useful for fettling down to size & to keying into the angles of the strut junctions  .. I'd say trying to rig with just wire would be beyond me, so I'm glad for the gussets!

 

That's 4 of 16 done ...

 

The whole experience makes the Supermarine S4 (no rigging) an appealing next Schneider Trophy candidate kit, never mind its natural metal finish!!

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1 minute ago, AdrianMF said:

Short Brothers didn’t make it easy for the modeller, did they?

Do I sense some shared challenge, a little self-reflection on the Empire flying boat?  (where did that get to Adrian - I’ve lost track, sorry)

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2 hours ago, greggles.w said:

where did that get to

Indeed so! I’ve had an attack of working too much followed by analysis paralysis, so I’m clearing a couple of shelf-of-doomers to get the juices flowing again.

 

Regards,

Adrian

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This is just so challenging ...

 

I've never rigged before, & have found this quite a test.  I suspect I have made things difficult for myself by my choices, method & material.  Much respect for those who do this regularly!

 

The floats are now rigged, moving up to the wings.

 

Rigging_6

 

It looks a little toy-like, but for now represents the best I can manage.

 

9 of 16 to go ... this machine really is that close to done ...

 

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2 minutes ago, greggles.w said:

 

This is just so challenging ...

 

I've never rigged before, & have found this quite a test.  I suspect I have made things difficult for myself by my choices, method & material.  Much respect for those who do this regularly!

 

The floats are now rigged, moving up to the wings.

 

Rigging_6

 

It looks a little toy-like, but for now represents the best I can manage.

 

Actually at first glance I thought it was a photo of the real thing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alllllrighty, so I've gone mad.

 

BUT, a small price to pay for finalllly completing this thing!!

 

Last task was the wing bracing.  A great humbling process it has been.  It has been tortuous, frustrating, and not the finest end result.  Virtually every connection 'sprung' off I'd say an average of 3 times each, requiring re-fixing.  I managed to superglue some on my alignment masking tape to one junction ... urgh!

 

Here a censored chronicle of the very last bits to go on - the under-wing bracing - as seen here:

 

Bracing

 

Measurements taken on card, wire pushed into scribed grooves in plastic sheet (left) then crimped over (right) ..

 

Bracing_0

 

.. before welding another sheet over the top with copious amounts of dissolving cement & overnight weights.  The welded lump then shaped into the flared & paired gusset:

 

Bracing_1

 

... snipped free ..

 

Bracing_2

 

... & painted:

 

Bracing_3

 

And for all that effort, be damned if I could get it to rig up realistically.  It passes muster when standing back, but up close like this it reveals my limitations.

 

Braced_2

 

Anyhow, the general geometry is correct (even accounting for the distorted perspective of the phone camera!)

 

Braced_1

 

And as I say, it looks the part from further back, so I'm satisfied I've given it the best I can at this stage.

 

Braced_3

 

And meantime in the background I have progressed a base.  My sketch intent; lovely timberwork by 'Jim's Bases', dynamic 'sea blur' image by Coastal Kits.

 

Base

 

So, esteemed fellows, this post brings this thread to a close.  Next - all providence allowing - shall be a 'Ready for Inspection' post.

 

It has been a very difficult few years for me.  This project has at times seemed like the only evidence that the relentless efforts of daily life do actually accumulate & progress toward something.  It has challenged me to think that mistakes & accidents & poor choices will happen & just need to be revisited, or otherwise accepted for good enough & move on.  I sincerely thank all who offered a comment here or there along the way, you will not have realised that your interaction might at times have been the sum total of meaningful connection on that day.

 

Thanks all, stay safe.

 

 

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I'd be more than happy with that rigging. Attaching it to those gussets is not the easiest of tasks and you've done a great job. She's gorgeous, but I assume there's still a prop, or prop disc to come...


Ian

Edited by limeypilot
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Great stuff Greggles, stunning.

 

1 hour ago, limeypilot said:

prop, or prop disc to come...

I believe that the Crusader is being displayed as 'in-flight' and as such IMHO, neither a prop or a disc would be fitting.

 

Stuart

 

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Well, Greggles, you have a great piece of sculpture on the shelf.... 💯

Congrats on getting her over the finish line! 

A couple of weeks ago I scratch built one 4-blade Hamilton prop in 1.48 scale. It's my first effort on such a job.

My sense of achievement and glow of satisfaction in achieving a result FAR exceeded anything that can be bought in the aftermarket retail sector. It's priceless. 

So YOU can be feeling joy and satisfaction in abundance with this project ‼️🤩

 

🌧️☁️🌦️🌤️🌞🌝

 

 

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