White Knight - Short Crusader

[greggles.w]

Float struts.  This is what the kit supplies:

 

 

There's four of them, so that's good.  And they are airfoil in section, so that's good too.  But they appear to be four casts of the same part: all alike, all the same length and all with perpendicular ends (don't be fooled by the locating pins on one end - there's no holes in the floats or fuselage to fit them in!).

 

The reality is somewhat more geometrically complex, like so:

 

 

The front & rear struts lean back at slightly differing angles ...

 

 

Hence the need for the elaborate jig.

 

And here's where I've got to with it tonight:

 

 

Zoom, zoom!!

 

The red lines set out the back edge of the struts, which I can tape to that sloped plane of cardboard while trimming their ends & later while glueing.  The fuselage is just teetering there.  I'll need to build some support for it .. next time.

 

Thanks for looking in,

 

g.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by greggles.w
Farewell Photobucket!

[bianfuxia]

This is all amazing work!

[roadrunner]

Great work!

finaly this kit is m ore complicated than I thought....not for a simple build project.

 

[greggles.w]

On 14/06/2017 at 0:37 PM, bianfuxia said:

This is all amazing work!

 

On 14/06/2017 at 10:49 PM, roadrunner said:

 

Great work!

 

 

Thank you both!!

 

On 14/06/2017 at 10:49 PM, roadrunner said:

this kit is m ore complicated than I thought....not for a simple build project.

 

Yes- very true, but nevertheless I'm having fun with it 😁

 

Tonight some experimentation with brass to replace the resin float struts, which have a little more flex than I'm comfortable with.

 

Here is a comparison, front then side on, of the resin part with the latest attempt in brass:

 

 

 

Made from 3mm diameter 'soft fuel brass' circular tube with a 0.5mm brass rod within the leading edge.  This is the most evenly reshaped test-run so far, made using this homemade contraption (!!):

 

 

Not sure yet if I think the outcome is OK ... will reconsider tomorrow.

 

p.s Today is tomorrow (eh?) & I've given it some thought. All was good other than the trailing edge, which was rounded as per the leading edge when it ought to be streamlined out to a taper.  A little work with a file then coarse wet 'n dry has brought that to a fine enough taper.  This soft brass was quite workable, if a little vulnerable to unintentional marking.  So onward, same again x3 more..

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by greggles.w
Update & image re-link

[Hewy]

This is going to be a very very nice model indeed, super work on the jig taking no chances on misalignment, time we'll spent. 

Glynn 

[lunarhighway]

I've had some success making airfoil shaped struts from soda can metal

 

cut the top and bottom of the can and than cutting int lengthwise will give you a nice sized sheet of thin metal. it will want to curl up slightly but once fold it's will keep it's shape.

scissors are best to cut it, and best trim any jagged edges to avoid injury as the edges can be rather sharp.

 

This can be folded round a suited diameter rod, wire, or straight edge to produce the leading edge, it can than be trimmed to shape and the trailing edge glued with superglue... a metal wire or rod can be ran trough the hollow core (depending on how thin it is) to give strength and provide mounting pins

these mounting pins could be placed into drilled holes and when using metal wire can even be bent into the right angle after glueing

 

considering it's virtually free it lends itself well to produce quite a number of details

[Caerbannog]

Great work again.

I must admid that I do not understand the jig...

René

 

[greggles.w]

17 hours ago, Hewy said:

This is going to be a very very nice model indeed, super work on the jig taking no chances on misalignment, time we'll spent. 

Glynn 

 

Thanks Glynn, effort on the jig will hopefully give a good result - I'm mindful that a piece of top class concrete work is as much a credit to the carpenter's form work.

 

17 hours ago, lunarhighway said:

I've had some success making airfoil shaped struts from soda can metal

 

Thanks for taking the time to outline your technique Mr Lunarhighway. I had been mulling over possible alternate techniques in case my current approach failed, and had been thinking along those lines.  However I had thought perhaps thin brass sheet, much like that used for PE parts.  Your thrifty approach better matches my family budget hobby allowance, thank you!

 

I'm now quietly confident my approach will get me there, in particular the (relatively) thick walls (.225mm) of the brass tube make for a very sturdy, rigid end result, even with a bit of filing & sanding to shape.

 

However I will happily fall

back on your advice if I hit trouble.

 

17 hours ago, Caerbannog said:

Great work again.

I must admid that I do not understand the jig...

René

 

 

Thanks yet again Rene,

 

Sorry the last photo wasn't really so helpful - taken in a rush as I packed up for the night.  Basically it's in lieu of a vice: I put the brass between two pieces of plywood & then tighten the wing nuts to slowly & evenly compress the circular tube. I had hoped that a bit of flex in the ply might assist in slightly curved faces to the compressed brass.  However, the first use merely impressed the brass into the ply!!  So I had to improvise & slipped two steel rules inside, sandwiching the brass! (Not shown in the photo sorry).  That worked (& happily no damage to the rulers!!)

 

 

Well, two days of children unwell & now me going under too means no further progress... Hopefully back at it again soon.

 

Thanks all,

 

g.

 

 

[greggles.w]

Hi all,

 

Happy to report we are all well again & the float strut production line is underway.  

 

Here 4x freshly hack-sawn tubes, about 30mm long:

 

 

Then each into into the contraption, held in place with a little double-sided tape:

 

 

Then ruler No.2 on top & close up the press like so:

 

 

Only partially compressed at first...:

 

 

... enough to allow me to insert a length of 0.5mm steel 'music wire' to the leading edge, like so:

 

 

Then press again, this time using the inner holes, another central washer to even out the pressure, & tighten up as much as I can, especially on the trailing edge side:

 

 

Then out it comes for some 300 grit sandpaper to finish the taper to the trailing edge, polished down with finer grades.  Here below are the first two done, the one on the left showing the leading edge - a little over 1mm thick & rounded - and the one on the right showing the tapered trailing edge.

 

 

I've pulled the steel wire out.  After they are trimmed to length on the jig I'll insert lengths of brass wire each end as a locating pin & joint strengthener.

 

...aaaand time's up!

 

Sadly I suspect this will be my last update to fall within the timeframe of this group build .  School holidays start in a few days & we are heading off to visit family interstate.  Return date unknown, there may be a chance for one more session if we return in time, but I'm certain I won't be able to finish - most disappointing!!

 

Thanks to Tony for providing a happy home for this unique machine.  While I haven't got to the end yet, this group has pushed me forward far further than would otherwise be the case.

Edited July 2, 2017 by greggles.w
Farewell Photobucket!

[greggles.w]

... found one extra hour before bed.  One ... strut ... nearly ... done!

 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by greggles.w
Farewell Photobucket!

[Colin W]

I was really looking forward to seeing this finished. If you miss the deadline then please post in the usual forum. You've done too much to leave it on the shelf of doom. 

 

Colin 

[greggles.w]

24 minutes ago, Colin W said:

I was really looking forward to seeing this finished. If you miss the deadline then please post in the usual forum. You've done too much to leave it on the shelf of doom. 

 

Colin 

 

Thanks for the encouragement Colin.  Rest assured I'm definitely motivated to see this through to the end ... but it seems it will just be at a slower pace.  Happy to keep on posting insofar as there's interest.

[greggles.w]

Hmm, just gave Photobucket the Flickr. Will go back & re-illustrate this thread sometime soon ...

[TonyTiger66]

You've done a grand job on this  

 

This is a great thread in many ways. Some great scratch building techniques described and shown, a great contribution to knowledge on the type, contributors giving techniques for struts, jigs galore (alas, no waltzes  ) and more jigs!!

 

Well done on throwing Photobucket into touch. Some of your earliest photos from October aren't there at the moment, a shame because there's a great historical background and intro there; but it's the modelling that matters.

 

17 days left. If you get to do more it's a bonus, it would be lovely to see it in the gallery. Nevertheless, I know you pace things well and I don't need to tell you not to rush; it's far too good for last minute rushing .

 

Great work on the float hatches by the way; third time not so much lucky as 'solved'!

 

 

TonyT

[greggles.w]

On 06/07/2017 at 8:47 AM, TonyTiger66 said:

You've done a grand job on this

 

Very kind thank you Tony!

 

On 06/07/2017 at 8:47 AM, TonyTiger66 said:

Some of your earliest photos from October aren't there at the moment,

 

.. yes, I will get them back up again.  By happy chance my most recent images were on the kids iPad here on holidays with us, so I reinstated those, but the rest will need to wait until we return home.

 

On 06/07/2017 at 8:47 AM, TonyTiger66 said:

17 days left.

 

I saw we've been given an extension- great! Increases the chance that I will actually get another instalment in before the finish. Looking forward to it...

[greggles.w]

Home at last, late at night, after one of those exhausting long-distance drives with kids! But look what was waiting in the mailbox, an envelope from France with this:

 

 

What a fantastic image! To get me motivated to pick up where I left off ..

[TonyTiger66]

That's one of my absolute favourite aviation magazines greggles  .

 

I have an irrationally large number of them, and there still aren't enough!

 

There are usually a couple of very helpful model building/reviews close to the back too. I found one that gave corrections for the Heller Bf-109B and a build thread; when it was new !

 

I hope you had a good trip. I'm going to try to 'mad rush' my thread up to date too now. As an aside, I currently have a superb book out from ACT Libraries with some very, very nice photographs of Schneider Trophy aircraft within its covers . I hope the magazine has some great stuff in it for your aircraft.

 

Best regards  

TonyT

Edited July 18, 2017 by TonyTiger66

[JOCKNEY]

Fantastic, build....well build doesn't really do this thread justice it's more like a recreation given how much has been made from scratch.

 

Your attention to detail and refusal to compromise is a credit to you Sir ! 

 

Regardless of the GB closing date, lets see this one finished please 

 

with you all the way 

 

cheers Pat

[greggles.w]

Thanks Tony & Pat, very kind encouragement- especially considering my slow progress!

 

On 18/07/2017 at 6:36 PM, TonyTiger66 said:

I currently have a superb book out from ACT Libraries with some very, very nice photographs of Schneider Trophy aircraft within its covers .

 

Could you let me know the title Tony? Always up for a reference recommendation!

 

On 18/07/2017 at 7:58 PM, JOCKNEY said:

Regardless of the GB closing date, lets see this one finished please 

 

 

Thanks, yes, will keep at it Pat!

 

One more increment of progress tonight, glad to be back into it after a little over three weeks.  I've fashioned & fixed the struts onto one float.

 

First the strut lengths were prepared by cutting each end & bevelling to angles set by the jig.  Then the jig aided set out of locations for holes drilled into the float, one of which you can just see here ready for the back strut..

 

 

.. 0.5mm brass rod was threaded through the strut & bent on exit to suit.  Seen here with the rear strut partially inserted into the float ..

 

 

Then glued on!  Finally I very carefully (nervously) directed a few drops of thin CA down the strut cavity from the top until it filled up, & applied a bit of putty to the lower junction, to be cleaned up tomorrow:

 

 

Note the aerofoil profile apparent at the top of the struts .. and their alignment thanks to the jig.  Makes that effort worthwhile!

 

And most importantly the connections seem reassuringly rigid!!

 

And that will end tonight's work. Unfortunately it also likely ends my contribution during this excellent group build.  Thanks again for giving this a home Tony.

 

Hopefully this thread can be dragged back into WIP??!

 

 

[TonyTiger66]

Of course Greggles.

My own thread is, in contrast, truly abysmal in terms of updates. I feel terrible about it. I hope to throw it into the KUTA build.

 

Your WIP is, in contrast, just superb, comprehensive. So much scratch building and improvement. The latest is that those floats and struts really look good.

 

This is 1/72; that aerofoil profile is very worthy of a double take.

 

She's going to be a real art-deco beauty.

 

Thanks for sharing this build old chap, great stuff 

 

Best regards

TonyT

 

[greggles.w]

Thanks again Tony,

 

(& not to take credit where it's not due - this is the 1/48 kit, not the 1/72 🙂 )

[TonyTiger66]

Oops .

 

It's 5 to midnight. My eyes are wobbly and my hands are blurred !

 

They're still great aerofoil sections.

 

 

Yours under the duvet 

TonyT

[JOCKNEY]

2 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

 

 

Yours under the duvet 

TonyT

 

Thanks for not including a shelfie Tony !

 

cheers Pat

[greggles.w]

Dull prime, fill & recovery is ongoing with the floats.  In between I have had a play, testing a few ideas for rigging, which looms ahead of me.

 

After experimenting with a few different - & unsuccessful - ideas I pretty much came around to 'follow the instructions' ... well almost.

 

I've not hit anything definitive on the gauge of wire used on the Crusader, however like other contemporary British racers it looks like streamlined RAF wire.  So I bought some of RB Productions 1/32 RAF 4BA wire.  The logic being that this smallest gauge RAF wire translates to about middling gauge at 1/48.

 

Here I made use of the kit beaching trolley - that great grey slab of resin - as a convenient test subject:

 

 

Best result came by applying advice from some helpful online modeller: drill out both ends but only glue the wire in at one end, so the other floats.  Theory being that this will avoid sag.

 

Can't say that was relaxing or easy .. will keep my eye on this test subject while I continue, to see if it develops sag over time.

 

Anyway, it achived something: it made returning to dull prime, fill & recovery look appealing!  Back to it soon ...

[greggles.w]

.. and that's the last brass strut done & fixed in place! Phew!