1/48 - North American P-51D/F-51D & Mustang lV/P-51K by Airfix - released

[dragonlanceHR]

18 hours ago, AWFK10 said:

If I wanted to build another 1/48 P-51D, however, I'ld hunt out the Monogram one that's somewhere in the garage (at least, I think it is !).

 

It all depends on what one wants.

Monogram P-51D is an error-ridden ancient kit. Even the oft-lauded 1/48 Tamiya kit isn't that accurate.

 

So if Airfix brings out a kit that doesn't need a corrected prop, spinner and wheels (at minimum), it's a money saver.

 

Vedran

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, dragonlanceHR said:

 

It all depends on what one wants.

Monogram P-51D is an error-ridden ancient kit. Even the oft-lauded 1/48 Tamiya kit isn't that accurate.

 

So if Airfix brings out a kit that doesn't need a corrected prop, spinner and wheels (at minimum), it's a money saver.

 

Vedran

 

Interesting points Vedran

I knew the Tamiya has the wrong wheel well, and a poorly designed canopy,  but not heard of problems with prop and spinner, or wheels?

 

AFAIK the Monogram P-51D is reasonably accurate, dating from 1977,

http://modelingmadness.com/review/korean/cleaver51d.htm

but separate gun bay and undercowl make it a pain.

  I can believe their old P-51B kit has shape issues, being from the mid 60's.

 

I'm surprised Airfix have not scaled down the Typhoon, given the data they have from the 1/24 th kit.

 

cheers

T

[dragonlanceHR]

Hi Troy.

 

First, a warning, this post could cause hurt in some quarters, so read it at your own risk ;-)

 

I must find the references, but from memory, Monogram 1/48 nose is too fat and too short.

 

Tamiya, being currently the best kit in the 1/48: engine cowl too narrow and wrong cross section (fixed somewhat on their P-51B), prop blades wrongly shaped, spinner is off, wing sits 2mm too low, causing the bottom radiator to be too low, and of course the wheel wells.

 

For Hasegawa vs. Tamiya comparison, check Jun Temma's page, the Hasegawa P-51D-10 "Petie 2nd" build. Use google translator.

 

Vedran

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by dragonlanceHR
Errors in language

[Troy Smith]

thanks Vedran

 

the Jun Temma page is this one 

http://www.geocities.jp/yoyuso/p51d/p51d.html

 

The auto translate is giving me a headache, well, making a headache worse...  

I find Jun's work interesting, but not definitive, and I'm not near kits or books to try to make any more sense.  

 

cheers

T

 

 

[ElectricLightAndy]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

I'm surprised Airfix have not scaled down the Typhoon, given the data they have from the 1/24 th kit.

 

They Have.

 

http://www.airfix.com/uk-en/hawker-typhoon-1-72.html

 

And a britmodeller build.

 

 

Tis' an exquisite kit

Andy.

Edited October 25, 2016 by ElectricLightAndy

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Given that the P-51D/K was used by approx 19 RAF squadrons, not to mention RAAF, RNZAF & SAAF squadrons, and not forgetting the British origins of the original design requirement , nor the fact its powered by a Merlin ( OK a Packard built one). It seems entirely reasonable for Airfix to want to have an modern tooling of this their 1/48th range.

 

I'm having to think hard for a non-Soviet bloc airforce that didn't operate them too ( OK Eire & the Post war Luftwaffe) - so as a world wide seller it should be a winner, and thats even before you factor in the market for shiny ones with stars & bars on

 

Yeah, its not a Spit XIV/ XVIII or a Tempest, or a Hunter, but i bet it will be nice, and buy enough of these and those subjects WILL come in time

 

Jonners

 

 

[Tbolt]

36 minutes ago, ElectricLightAndy said:

 

They Have.

 

http://www.airfix.com/uk-en/hawker-typhoon-1-72.html

 

 

Andy.

 

I took that to mean to 1/48th scale.

[AWFK10]

9 hours ago, Shane said:

 

Extreme, excessive or punishing rises? I'd have thought that they were reasonable in the face of the steep fall in the value of the pound. Even Airfix employees need to pay for their pints you know.

 

Shane

In comparison with the rise - or rather, the absence of a rise - in my pay, yes: a 10% price increase, not so long after an earlier price hike of the same order, is excessive. I too need to pay for my pints or at any rate for my mortgage, food, etc. I don't need to have a plastic model of any subject, and buying another kit of one that's already adequately represented in my stash is going to be a very low priority. I sincerely hope Airfix have calculated correctly, I've been buying their kits for knocking on half a century. Nor is the issue confined to them: one of the few remaining model shops that I'm able to visit (two folded this year and I suspect another is on its last legs) has largely ceased to stock Italeri because the owner, with decades of experience, judges it's not worth it at current prices. I notice the ones he does have are subjects unique to Italeri.

[Shane]

On 26/10/2016 at 3:58 AM, AWFK10 said:

In comparison with the rise - or rather, the absence of a rise - in my pay, yes: a 10% price increase, not so long after an earlier price hike of the same order, is excessive.

 

Sadly, the amount any company puts up the price of goods they sell has more to do with deciding what profit they need to make to remain viable than whether our pay has gone up. If you *know* that Hornby is gouging, fair enough, but given that their financial state is well known, as is the current state of the pound, it seems to me on the face of it that the rises are at most "unfortunate for those of us who feel they can't afford to pay" than extreme.

 

By the way, I hold this opinion in a situation where my monthly income is now less than 10% as large as it was two years ago with little prospect things will improve. I can sometimes afford a new Series 1 kit, but my own situation isn't Hornby's fault.

 

Shane

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but with the amount of armchair business critique going on I am frankly staggered at the financial ignorance displayed.

 

It's evident that most people with PAYE salary jobs working for someone else simply have no clue how heavily bias revenue and profit are to a core nucleus of high turn-over products. We, for example, could not exist on selling a tin of Eau-de-Nil (chosen because it's one of the few colours that gets us a mention on here in discussions) once in a blue moon, we exist by selling batch after batch of common heavily used colours that competitors also make. Could you imagine us not making RAF Dark Green just because Humbrol has a colour quite close? That would be laughably stupid as RAF modellers get through vastly more Dark Green than weirdo colours like Eau-de-Nil and whilst Humbrol might still get most of our potential Dark Green customers, we'd get zero if we didn't have the product available which incidently outsells Eau-de-Nil several fold. The obscurities and curiosities are just something you make because you can when funds allow and in honesty, they're as much loss-leaders to persuade non-customers to give your brand a try rather than profit generators themselves. For every esoteric subject that on a good day you can sell one or two of to a customer with a particular fondness for the unusual, you need to crank out literally thousands of bread and butter subjects. BMW does not succeed from M3 and M5 sales - it's the sale of literally millions of dull 4-cylinder diesel burning 318d and 520d models in white, grey or black paint that pay for the factory, the staff and the R&D costs.

 

The lack of a 1:48 Whatsit on the market does in absolutely no way mean that investment in that direction will generate equal revenue compared to investing in a safe and hugely popular subject that someone else also has an offering for on the market. Airfix selling you, me or anyone else on this thread 1 x 1:24 Supermarine Scimitar is not financial success. It may be tempting to consider it from a punter's point of view spending £XX.YY on one kit or the next and therefore it's all the same, but it really, honestly isn't even close to how a portfolio of products looks when the sales figures and profits are all mapped out. Every business with interesting / unusual stuff on sale *sustainably* is propped up by reliable income from far less sexy stuff that sells in higher volumes.

I am exited about the Airfix Walrus, and I will be buying one. I already have the lovely Classic Airframes Walrus kit too and whilst not competition level, I'm not completely incompetent either and a Classic Airframes kit is well within the grasp of anyone capable of using a sanding stick. That will bring my collection of Walruses to 2, which coincidently is about the limit of my interest in Walruses and also close to the number of operational colour schemes.

 

Someone mentioned a Tempest. Lovely. I have one in Dark Green, Ocean Grey and Medium Sea Grey. I could build another with a different set of black and white stripes. I saw a target tug Tempest modelled and it was quite nice but I probably wouldn't bother myself. That's my Tempest V collection complete then ...

 

This is kinda the point. These unusual subjects people are stating with a tone of certainty would have been a better investment are limited both in appeal to the whole demographic, but limited in scope even to those who like the subject. A one-hit-wonder. A one-trick-pony. You'll sell someone who can tell a Tempest from a Typhoon a Tempest and they'll paint it grey and green. That's all you can do with it. If you've seen one you've seen them all. A good P-51D tooling will sell, then sell again, then sell again. It'll sell to people who knew Airfix as a kid. It'll sell to us. It'll sell to me. There are more options and choices of variants, nationalities and colours for Mustangs than the world's biggest Mustang fan could ever get through. So what that Eduard are making one too? There are plenty people who have never heard of Eduard. Airfix doesn't even need to box all these Mustang options for it to sell very well for many years to come as the aftermarket can continue to stimulate revenue for Airfix by providing new decals and schemes to apply to Airfix kits. Or Eduard. Or Tamiya. It really doesn't matter, because the Airfix slice of the overall 1/48 P-51D pie will be far larger than eating the whole Tempest, Vampire or castrated Allison Mustang pie all to themselves.

[Dances With Wolves]

On 27/10/2016 at 11:29 AM, SovereignHobbies said:

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but with the amount of armchair business critique going on I am frankly staggered at the financial ignorance displayed.

 

It's evident that most people with PAYE salary jobs working for someone else simply have no clue how heavily bias revenue and profit are to a core nucleus of high turn-over products. We, for example, could not exist on selling a tin of Eau-de-Nil (chosen because it's one of the few colours that gets us a mention on here in discussions) once in a blue moon, we exist by selling batch after batch of common heavily used colours that competitors also make. Could you imagine us not making RAF Dark Green just because Humbrol has a colour quite close? That would be laughably stupid as RAF modellers get through vastly more Dark Green than weirdo colours like Eau-de-Nil and whilst Humbrol might still get most of our potential Dark Green customers, we'd get zero if we didn't have the product available which incidently outsells Eau-de-Nil several fold. The obscurities and curiosities are just something you make because you can when funds allow and in honesty, they're as much loss-leaders to persuade non-customers to give your brand a try rather than profit generators themselves. For every esoteric subject that on a good day you can sell one or two of to a customer with a particular fondness for the unusual, you need to crank out literally thousands of bread and butter subjects. BMW does not succeed from M3 and M5 sales - it's the sale of literally millions of dull 4-cylinder diesel burning 318d and 520d models in white, grey or black paint that pay for the factory, the staff and the R&D costs.

 

The lack of a 1:48 Whatsit on the market does in absolutely no way mean that investment in that direction will generate equal revenue compared to investing in a safe and hugely popular subject that someone else also has an offering for on the market. Airfix selling you, me or anyone else on this thread 1 x 1:24 Supermarine Scimitar is not financial success. It may be tempting to consider it from a punter's point of view spending £XX.YY on one kit or the next and therefore it's all the same, but it really, honestly isn't even close to how a portfolio of products looks when the sales figures and profits are all mapped out. Every business with interesting / unusual stuff on sale *sustainably* is propped up by reliable income from far less sexy stuff that sells in higher volumes.

I am exited about the Airfix Walrus, and I will be buying one. I already have the lovely Classic Airframes Walrus kit too and whilst not competition level, I'm not completely incompetent either and a Classic Airframes kit is well within the grasp of anyone capable of using a sanding stick. That will bring my collection of Walruses to 2, which coincidently is about the limit of my interest in Walruses and also close to the number of operational colour schemes.

 

Someone mentioned a Tempest. Lovely. I have one in Dark Green, Ocean Grey and Medium Sea Grey. I could build another with a different set of black and white stripes. I saw a target tug Tempest modelled and it was quite nice but I probably wouldn't bother myself. That's my Tempest V collection complete then ...

 

This is kinda the point. These unusual subjects people are stating with a tone of certainty would have been a better investment are limited both in appeal to the whole demographic, but limited in scope even to those who like the subject. A one-hit-wonder. A one-trick-pony. You'll sell someone who can tell a Tempest from a Typhoon a Tempest and they'll paint it grey and green. That's all you can do with it. If you've seen one you've seen them all. A good P-51D tooling will sell, then sell again, then sell again. It'll sell to people who knew Airfix as a kid. It'll sell to us. It'll sell to me. There are more options and choices of variants, nationalities and colours for Mustangs than the world's biggest Mustang fan could ever get through. So what that Eduard are making one too? There are plenty people who have never heard of Eduard. Airfix doesn't even need to box all these Mustang options for it to sell very well for many years to come as the aftermarket can continue to stimulate revenue for Airfix by providing new decals and schemes to apply to Airfix kits. Or Eduard. Or Tamiya. It really doesn't matter, because the Airfix slice of the overall 1/48 P-51D pie will be far larger than eating the whole Tempest, Vampire or castrated Allison Mustang pie all to themselves.

 

...or to express the same sentiments in verse...

 

 

 'The Knowing'

Airfix are doing a Mustang, The Knowing let out with a sob!

Why, that's hardly a subject worth building; no question, they're in the wrong job!

Whatever on earth were they thinking, when they set such a puzzling course?

But at least it's a chance for The Knowing, to peer down the mouth of the horse.

Perhaps they'll find there some answers, a clue to this 'business plan' tack.

And then they'll continue regardless - discharging their critical flak.

And prior to this, a P-40! Spitfires and Hurricanes too!

This madness extends unabated - to the commonest friends of The Few!

What’s needed are Wrinkly Dipsticks, Purile Plonkers and variants all.

Judge Forum has issued the ruling, now Airfix must answer the call!

But the path to your Wrinkly Dipstick, is paved with a truth and a pang.

Such things are only made likely, from the money returned on the ‘stang.

 

 

[Homebee]

Sprues preview: http://imodeler.com/2016/11/new-airfix-148-p-51d-mustang-sprue-preview/

 

 

 

 

 

V.P.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Homebee

[mungo1974]

Well i have to say i like what i see so far..

Optional DFF/non DFF tail parts...excellent

Windscreen and Canopy look great...excellent

Separate leading edge gun inserts to avoid nasty clean op seams..excellent.

 

My only criticism i can see so far and it is small.....is the underside of the doghouse/radiator area theres a small vent that always ends up in a seam on most kits.Now its a relatively easy fix(I normally cover the seam with a shaped piece of plasticard or soda/beer can. Tamiya on their 1/32 kit and Meng's new kit get around this by having that section as a separate part eliminating the seam..although i understand this may have been ignored to save on tooling costs.

All in all...I can't wait..

Vent on real Mustang

resulting seam on most P-51 kits

[Biggles87]

It looks pretty good to me from looking at the  sprues, and the wings are not covered in rivets!

 

Really looking forward to this.

[Homebee]

More

Source: http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/Ausstellungen/Telford2016/AT/index.html

 

 

 

 

V.P.

[172flogger]

Airfix specialists

 

 

[Uncle Dick]

Trust Airfix to come out with an extensive weapons/fuel tank selection in 1/48, they practically shafted us in 1/72 scale with their P-51D and to a lesser extent the F-51 choice of fire crackers and drop tanks

Edited November 22, 2016 by Uncle Dick

[janneman36]

Well i don't care what criticasters are saying but my stash of red boxes will be growing and this one will be one of them.....

And i know that i will be selling off a lot of my kits too get more airfix in.....

It is easy too be negative but at the moment we are living the golden age of plastic modelling, there is something for everyone.

 

Best regards, Jan

[Tbolt]

16 hours ago, Uncle Dick said:

Trust Airfix to come out with an extensive weapons/fuel tank selection in 1/48, they practically shafted us in 1/72 scale with their P-51D and to a lesser extent the F-51 choice of fire crackers and drop tanks

 

I don't know about extensive, but better than the 1/72nd scale kit, more like standard - they've still ignored the 110 gal teardrop tanks, just like pretty much every other P-51 kit, apart from the 1/32 Tamiya kit. Hopefully Eduard will bring us some in their P-51 kit or their Brassin range.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Tbolt

[Denford]

Anyone seeking to comment (quite legitimately) on either the sprues or completed model should be aware that they are far from 'final'.

Airfix said that there is more work to be done on the sprues, for instance locating pins and sockets, while the model was 'thrown together' I think the day before to be ready in time for Telford!

[Ka-Efka]

If they elect to get rid of the perforation lines in the wings, etc., they're much welcome imo.

[madcop]

If they elect to get rid of looking at their PC screens more than they spend  time looking at the real aircraft, they're much welcome imo.

But for the time being it looks like they are more concerned by their new hardware-software  than by the final product. 

I just hope this P-51D is going to be better than their much anticipated P-40. This one is AFAIC definitely quality wise, a step back for Airfix.

 

Madcop.

[Rabbit Leader]

Just my viewpoint, however all those wing rivets are more akin to a product from the TrumpyBossMeng stable rather than the deep (but crisp) panels lines that we are used to seeing from Airfix. My understanding is that a good proprotion of P-51's left the NA factory with puttied and sanded wing surfaces to protect laminar flow qualities.

 

I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of what I'm seeing at this stage.

I know that we are just viewing pre-production runs and parts that are probably photographed in bad lighting, however I'd rather see a smooth wing than what is currently being shown at the moment.  

I'll still wait to see what the final product looks like, however I'd rather Airfix stayed with the quality moulds (of say the Whitley ), rather than taking the excesive rivet approach shown here. Not one that I will pre-order just at this stage.

 

Cheers... Dave.

[Ka-Efka]

My general opinion on that: Flush rivets of the original a/c have to disappear in 1/48 scale. Quick disconnects etc. may remain visible, they're very welcome. I hope this perforation trend disappears soon...

[ABeck]

A suggestion to the Airfix team:

Include a second top-wing option with flush surface details. Modellers will praise this, even if the price will rise with 1.50.