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British Corsair in the Pacific


CamberrySauce

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Hi all,

I was wondering what the interior colours of Corsairs used by the brits, Is it the British colour or were they left in the American colours (If it is the American colours it would be greatly appreciated if I could get the paint colours) Also what are the colours for Fleet Air Arm in the Pacific?

Thanks in advance, 

Cam

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Hi, Camberry Sauce,

 

Standard US colour, the one corresponding to the Corsair subtype.

 

Now that is not entirely agreed. According to my sources (Mr. Reece) the Corsair Mk II (Vought built F4U-1) should be Bronze Green (or Dull Dark Green), while Corsair IV (Goodyear built FG-1D) should be US Interior Green (later 34151).

 

Fernando

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Fernando is correct with this correction...the interior green was applied to the tops of the side consoles, and flat black above.

 

And again Corsairs were designated as such:

 

Corsair I- Vought built F4U-1 Birdcage

Corsair II- Vought Built F4U-1A and F4U-1D

Corsair III- Brewster Built F3A (F4U-1A)

Corsair IV- Goodyear Built FG-1 (F4U-1A and FG-1D (F4U-1D)

 

You need a serial number to tell what version you have. ALL Goodyear Corsair IV were delivered in overall Glossy Sea Blue.

 

Bruce

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Every period image of FAA corsairs I can find shows them painted in the disruptive Temperate Sea Scheme of Dark Slate Grey (more of a green grey) and Extra Dark Sea Grey (A dark grey which appears slightly purple against the DSG) over what could be either White, Light grey, or Sky.

 

Note that Pacific aircraft seem to have had the red painted over in the roundels, presumably to avoid confusion with the Japanese Hinumaru markings. There seem to be several variations on this theme, including one with bars, similar to the USN marking.

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Hopefully Bruce will be back on the matter of colours, but there are a number of good colour images which show Corsairs that were not in the specified British Temperate Sea Scheme of Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Slate Grey/Sky but in US equivalents, possibly (and here I cannot be as precise as I would like) Olive Drab, Sea Grey and either a light grey or a US version of Sky which is slightly lighter and greyer.  I believe that earlier examples were repainted in the UK, but possibly not all.  The matter has been discussed on a number of earlier threads.

 

The carriers that made up the British Pacific Fleet were initially employed in the Indian Ocean, where the standard British roundels were modified to the smaller SEAC size, but using Roundel Blue with White centres rather then the pale blue centres used by the RAF.  Once in the Pacific, they then adopted a larger blue/white roundel like the RAAF roundel, but with the US-style bars.  You can see considerable variation in the initial period, especially where the upper wing roundel has undergone several variations, some of which can still be seen.

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If you are looking to paint a corsair in the temperate scheme I used Xtracrylix and Humbrol on this one and as Graham says above, it is the ANA colours of olive drab sea grey and sky. Notice the overpainted wing roundel in dark slate grey.

 

 

I have also made a MkI but with the light grey undersides- I guess its open to debate, after making this I am leaning more towards sky undersides.

 

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There's at least one colour photo on a Corsair in the UK that is in TSS rather than the US equivalent colours.  I would assume (as a first stab) that those aircraft that stayed in the US retained their US colours, whereas those that ended up in UK MUs (sorry, Naval Yards) would have been repainted.  It isn't clear (to me, it may be to others) whether this policy was continued for all deliveries prior to the Sea Blue Gloss examples, or examples in the US colours were delivered to the fleet.

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Yea what else is interesting is that the photo you mention of the MU at HMS Fledgling shows they painted the gas patches on the top surface of the port wing, I have some other photos which show this too. I'm also convinced that many were overpainted that went out to the far east in TSS.

 

The photo you mention is on this page:

 

http://royalmilitary.tumblr.com/post/21602549050/tennozan-hms-fledgling-in-staffordshire-in

 

 

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Hi Everybody,

Thanks for the replies! This should be of great help to me, I have a Academy F4U-1 in my stash hoping to convert into a FAA Corsair. One more question, Did british f4u-1 have rockets equipped at all?

Thanks in advance,

Cam :)

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11 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Hopefully Bruce will be back on the matter of colours, but there are a number of good colour images which show Corsairs that were not in the specified British Temperate Sea Scheme of Extra Dark Sea Grey/Dark Slate Grey/Sky but in US equivalents, possibly (and here I cannot be as precise as I would like) Olive Drab, Sea Grey and either a light grey or a US version of Sky which is slightly lighter and greyer.  I believe that earlier examples were repainted in the UK, but possibly not all.  The matter has been discussed on a number of earlier threads.

 

 Hi, Graham,

I think that early Corsairs I could have been painted in TSS with colours approximating the MAP ones (just like Hellcats). However, later aircraft would be painted in "substitute" (i.e., ANA) colours, like any other plane (with exceptions; again, Hellcats). Very late machines (Corsair IVs) found in TSS (instead of GSB) would have probably been repainted by the Brits, and so would have been painted in "authentic" MAP colours.

 

Fernando

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10 hours ago, 85sqn said:

Yea what else is interesting is that the photo you mention of the MU at HMS Fledgling shows they painted the gas patches on the top surface of the port wing, I have some other photos which show this too. I'm also convinced that many were overpainted that went out to the far east in TSS.

 

The photo you mention is on this page:

 

http://royalmilitary.tumblr.com/post/21602549050/tennozan-hms-fledgling-in-staffordshire-in

 

 

 Hi, 85sqn,

 

That picture looks too strangely coloured to make any assumption on it. Look at the purple hangar roofs! The Corsair has obviously many repaints, and any made in the UK would have been in "authentic" MAP colours. It, however, makes an interesting comparison to the Seafire I (or -hooked or not- Spit) in the foreground, which must have been in a very faded Day Fighter scheme.

 

FErnando

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Fernando: sorry I can't be more definite, but I don't think that it was quite as simple as that sensible account.  Grumman, for example, began with US paints that were a very good match for the British shades (although the Sky was slightly off) and continued to deliver the aircraft in those colours until the change over to SBG,  (Possibly this was only with the Mk.VI, and so not Grumman at all?)  Paint with a similar good match has been found on the FAAM's Corsair - may we please soon have the promised book on that restoration!  However, this was only on certain parts, and the matter is confused by a connection with Brewster.  The Corsair appeared in the FAA some years later than the Martlet, and I think - I don't know - that Vought used official US colours throughout.  Hopefully those who do know more - or have more success at finding earlier threads - will contribute here.

 

That photo has been reproduced elsewhere (Scale Aircraft Modelling?) in more convincing colours.

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Just now, Graham Boak said:

Fernando: sorry I can't be more definite, but I don't think that it was quite as simple as that sensible account.  Grumman, for example, began with US paints that were a very good match for the British shades (although the Sky was slightly off) and continued to deliver the aircraft in those colours until the change over to SBG,  (Possibly this was only with the Mk.VI, and so not Grumman at all?)  Paint with a similar good match has been found on the FAAM's Corsair - may we please soon have the promised book on that restoration!  However, this was only on certain parts, and the matter is confused by a connection with Brewster.  The Corsair appeared in the FAA some years later than the Martlet, and I think - I don't know - that Vought used official US colours throughout.  Hopefully those who do know more - or have more success at finding earlier threads - will contribute here.

 

That photo has been reproduced elsewhere (Scale Aircraft Modelling?) in more convincing colours.

Hi, Graham,

Yeah, I know it is a simplification. Grumman and any other factory building planes on British orders used better matching colours and probably carried them on on subsequent models built; hence the Hellcats in colours matching MAP instead of "substitute" ANA ones. Vought started Corsair I production... when? I guess earlier -but not so earlier- than the Bulletin ANA 157. It might be they stocked "equivalent" paint, so their first batches could have been painted that way. All "educated guesses". Goodyear, on the other side, painted all machines GSB, so, if you see a Corsair IV in TSS, it should have been painted by the Brits. Again, educated guess.

 

FErnando

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Hi Fernando, that image has appeared in many different places so it has probably been distorted from the original, even so it is interesting. Have you seen any photographs of MkIV's in TSS? I would be very interested.

 

 

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Just come across, in Dana Bell's excellent Aircraft Pictorial 8 F4U-1 Corsair Vol 2, colour drawing of the colour scheme applicable to FAA Corsairs.  It is based on the A Revision (4 October 1943) of Vought blueprint VS-34900 (approved April 1943).  The primary colours are Army Dark Olive Drab (Dupont 1071-029), Sea Grey (Dupont 71-19324) and Sky (Dupont 71-021).  The colour callouts were not subsequently changed leading Dana to surmise that these colours remained applicable to all FAA Corsairs in TSS camouflage, whether built by Vought or Brewster.  "Tailwheel and arresting mechanism, main landing gear mechanism and interior of wheel wells to be Sky or Non Spec Light Gray."

 

The aircraft drawn is a Corsair II but bears the presumably illustrative serial JT100 (a Corsair I).

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Hi, Seahawk and 85sqn,

 

MAM magazine, 2005-8, BPF Special, offers a profile (I know, a profile) of KD838 "111/B" from 1851 Sqn, HMS Venerable, in TSS. This has been reproduced in profiles and decal sheets.

Air Britain "Fleet Air Arm Aircraft, 1939-1945", in pg. has two rather fuzzy photos, one of KD838 which might show TSS (or a strangely decolored GSB -we know it didn't bleach), and one of "N8AL" of 723 Sqn, no serial, identified as a IV, which might show the upper/lower camouflage demarcation corresponding to the TSS, and also an overlapping dark paint over the leading edge undersurface, that might indicate that the undersurface was painted a light colour, like in the TSS.

Nothing else for the moment.

 

Fernando

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On 10/19/2016 at 4:39 AM, Fernando said:

 Hi, Graham,

I think that early Corsairs I could have been painted in TSS with colours approximating the MAP ones (just like Hellcats). However, later aircraft would be painted in "substitute" (i.e., ANA) colours, like any other plane (with exceptions; again, Hellcats). Very late machines (Corsair IVs) found in TSS (instead of GSB) would have probably been repainted by the Brits, and so would have been painted in "authentic" MAP colours.

 

Fernando

Hi All!

    It seems as Vought Built Corsairs were painted in US Sea Grey, Olive Drab and started out with USN Non-Specular Light Grey , but at some point switched to either DuPont Sky Grey, or ???. Brewster Corsair III were a hodge podge from what I can tell. They started out with the USN's Tri color scheme. The went the equivalent colors and finally with colors close to the MAP shades of the temperate sea scheme. When the changes were made it is anyones guess as all of the records were destroyed. All of the Goodyear Corsairs were delivered in Glossy Sea Blue.

 

Bruce

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On 10/18/2016 at 3:45 PM, CamberrySauce said:

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for the replies! This should be of great help to me, I have a Academy F4U-1 in my stash hoping to convert into a FAA Corsair. One more question, Did british f4u-1 have rockets equipped at all?

Thanks in advance,

Cam :)

Although the last deliveries of Corsair IV to the FAA had US Style rocket stubs, no evidence has surfaced they used them.

 

Bruce

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19 hours ago, Fernando said:

Hi, Seahawk and 85sqn,

 

MAM magazine, 2005-8, BPF Special, offers a profile (I know, a profile) of KD838 "111/B" from 1851 Sqn, HMS Venerable, in TSS. This has been reproduced in profiles and decal sheets.

Air Britain "Fleet Air Arm Aircraft, 1939-1945", in pg. has two rather fuzzy photos, one of KD838 which might show TSS (or a strangely decolored GSB -we know it didn't bleach), and one of "N8AL" of 723 Sqn, no serial, identified as a IV, which might show the upper/lower camouflage demarcation corresponding to the TSS, and also an overlapping dark paint over the leading edge undersurface, that might indicate that the undersurface was painted a light colour, like in the TSS.

Nothing else for the moment.

 

Fernando

Hi Fernando,

 

Thanks, I have the MAM article now- I notice the photos are acknowledged to our very own IanG! The following months issue is also interesting as well and is that Tony o' Tooles models?

 

In the opposite vain there are some photos of JT128 and JT129 shown in the factory colours and later on having been re-painted in GSB which looks quite different on a MKI.

 

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I wouldn't normally do this but I have a whole speil about Corsair colours saved from Hyperscale but can't find the thread again:

FAA F4U Corsair colors question

October 24 2012 at 3:59 PM

Rick Reinbott   (Login RRman)
HyperScale Forums
from IP address 65.68.156.33


Folks,

Were British-FAA F4U Corsairs painted per Brtish specs in the wheel wells & cockpit areas or were they issued in the US colors? (no Corsair salmon-color suggestions please, when I say US I mean the interior green, GSB, white, etc. colors.)

If those areas were painted to British specs, what colors were used?

TIA!

Rick


 

 

 

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Rogarski
(Login Rogarski)
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78.145.105.25

US Specs

October 24 2012, 4:20 PM 

 

 

Which means Interior Green 611 in the cockpit and Light Gray 602 in the wheel wells (and the rest of the undersides). Upper surfaces in Sea Gray 603 and Olive Drab 613. (US substitute colours for British MAP shades.)


 

 

 

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Roy Sutherland
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24.6.25.23

Not for Grumman

October 24 2012, 4:24 PM 

 

 

Grumman used paints matched to British Specs. Color photos of Avengers and Hellcats show them to be in very close matches to EDSG and DSG over Sky.

 

 

 

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Rick Reinbott
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65.68.156.33

Thanks Gents; so, is it safe to assume that...

October 24 2012, 4:46 PM 

 

 

..the interior colors are interior green for the cockpit and light gray for the wells, landing gear and inside of the gear doors?

Rick


 

 

 

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Steven Modeldad Eisenman
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71.245.227.142

No.

October 24 2012, 5:18 PM 

 

 

Vought Corsair I and II were painted in the US substitute colors. ANA 613 OD, 603 Sea Gray and 602 Light Gray. Wells were underside color. Corsair I include both -1 and -1A, Corsair II included -1A and -1D

Brewster built Corsiar II were in either the substitute colors or USN "tri-color" scheme. Few made it into front line service, and there are no pictures of the USN scheme in FAA front-line service, that I know of. These include -1A and -1D.

Goodyear built Corsair IV were all in GSB, just like USN F4Us. These included -1As and -1Ds.

BTW, at least on the Birdcage Corsair Is, it appears that the wing fold bulkheads were USN Blue-Gray.

  



 

 

 

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Rogarski
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78.145.109.45

No?

October 24 2012, 7:58 PM 

 

 

Not quite sure which bit of Rick's proposition you are saying "no" to. I agree with all you've said though - except that the Brewster-built Corsair was the Corsair III in FAA service.

I've a number of pictures of spectacular Corsair pile-ups on British carriers which show clearly that the wheel wells are the same colour as the underside.


 

 

 

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Steven Modeldad Eisenman
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71.245.227.142

Right, I flunked Roman Numeral 101 or is that I O I, never IOU.

October 24 2012, 9:15 PM 

 

 





 

 

 

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Steven Modeldad Eisenman
(Login modeldad)
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71.245.227.142

But Grumman did not build Corsairs for FAA. Vought, Brewster and Goodyear did. nt

October 24 2012, 5:10 PM 

 

 





 

 

 

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Roy Sutherland
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24.6.25.23

Understood. It was an aside...

October 24 2012, 6:00 PM 

 

 

to make sure that it was not inferred that all lend lease aircraft for the FAA were delivered in US approximate colors.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

 

 

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Rogarski
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78.145.109.45

Aside

October 24 2012, 8:08 PM 

 

 

Thanks for your confusing clarification! I confirm that I was only attempting to answer the narrow question as posed. Colours for lend-lease aircraft more generally widely would have taken a longer essay eg Grumman-built Martlets and Wildcats plus, apparently, some early Eastern-built Wildcat Vs were in close matches to British MAP shades whereas the majority of Eastern-built Wildcat Vs and those Wildcat VIs delivered in Temperate Sea Scheme were in the US substitute colours.


 

 

 

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David Hansen
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Corsair Cockpit Colours are hard to define but...

October 24 2012, 5:46 PM 

 

 

i see no point in painting the cockpit in a different colour just to satisfy a British spec. My bet is the FAA and USN cockpit colours are identical. Black or Bronze green for the -1, Interior green for the -1A, Interior Green for the -1D and possibly YZC for the Goodyear-1D.

Also my guess is the door interiors are the same colour as the underside but on early -1s the wheel wells are salmon. Theorists debate whether the landing gear was extended or retracted (or even installed) when the wing lower surfaces were painted. I think the underside colour was applied to the wheel wells maybe starting during the -1A series.

Based on new evidence from the Corsair pulled out of Lake Michigan, i'm repainting the wheel wells on my -1 project.

-d-



    
 

 

 

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MichiganPete
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74.127.65.195

What's your evidence for untinted YZC for any cockpit interior on any US type??

October 24 2012, 5:53 PM 

 

 

Not saying it didn't happen, just curious. I don't recall running across that before. Tinted YZC yes, but not raw, untinted YZC. At least not for pilot's compartments (vs. other crew areas).




 

 

 

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DHamel
(Login DHamel)
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71.174.9.93

Color pics of early P-47's display YZC in pits.NT

October 24 2012, 7:57 PM 

 

 


 

 

 

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MichiganPete
(Login MichiganPete)
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74.127.65.195

YZC, or just overexposed shots of tinted ZC??

October 24 2012, 8:13 PM 

 

 

Again, not saying it didn't happen, but AFAIK untinted YZC wasn't authorized as a pilot compartment finish. It would be easy to flash tinted ZC and have it look like YZC in a photo.


 

 

 

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DHamel
(Login DHamel)
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71.174.9.93

Looks like YZC to me.

October 24 2012, 9:00 PM 

 

 

I'm working on O'neils" Li'l Abner" and some YZC will be in the pit.


 

 

 

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Steven Modeldad Eisenman
(Login modeldad)
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71.245.227.142

Looks like School Bus Chrome..and why not.

October 24 2012, 9:20 PM 

 

 

DDG or IG...



 

 

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David Hansen
(Login Falcon50EX)
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208.71.200.96

My evidence is the photos in the D&S Book of the Corsair cockpit..

October 24 2012, 9:04 PM 

 

 

As far as i'm concerned, its either Yellow Zinc Chromate, or Interior Green. Of some variety.

I forgot to say i think the YZC interior may have been a Goodyear thing.

And, as to the issue of "tinted", it sounds like everybody was mixing YZC on their own, so i think it's fair to say variations in colour did occur.


david




 

 

 

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Bruce Archer
(Login BruceArcher)
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70.119.146.169

Goodyear

October 25 2012, 9:26 AM 

 

 

It is well documented that Goodyear used interior green for their cockpits.

Bruce


 

 

 

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David Hansen
(Login Falcon50EX)
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208.71.200.96

Modeldad summed it up nicely- It's a moving target.

October 24 2012, 9:34 PM 

 

 

All we can agree upon is the Corsair interior colours had several variations. If in doubt, revert back to the William Reece article.

d-


 

 

 

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Bruce Archer
(Login BruceArcher)
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70.119.146.169

Corsair colors

October 24 2012, 7:50 PM 

 

 

Hi!
Having a conversation with a FAA Corsair pilot ( he only flew Vought Mk.IIs, and only the -1A version of the F4U) said the cockpit was a dark green, not the bright green of the Corsair IV.
So the Corsair IIs he flew, probably had Bronze or Dull dark green cockpits.
The Corsair IV had an interior green cockpit.
As for the wheel wells, they were the underside color, USN non-specular light Grey.

Bruce


 

 

 

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Rogarski
(Login Rogarski)
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78.145.109.45

Re: Corsair colors

October 24 2012, 8:16 PM 

 

 

Interesting: thank you.

Do you plan to extend the excellent treatment you gave the Martlet/Wildcat to cover other types as well (Corsair, Hellcat, Avenger)?


 

 

 

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Bruce Archer
(Login BruceArcher)
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70.119.146.169

Others

October 25 2012, 9:24 AM 

 

 

Hi!
I have been researching Corsairs. Someone was to send me information on the mods done by the FAA, but I still have not received any of it yet. I also am trying to track down when the clear vision hood was installed on the Goodyear Production line.
I hope to have something on Seafires also....


Bruce


 

 

 

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Steven Modeldad Eisenman
(Login modeldad)
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71.245.227.142

Why would it not be as USN?

October 24 2012, 9:18 PM 

 

 

A DDG or BG was used in the Birdcage, but after that IG. Just could be an interpretation as dark

Eyewitness, many an innocent man went to the gas chamber on eye witness account.

As for the wells, why would they be light gray and not underside color?

Paint it FN Pink.
I swear this becomes a moving target.


 

 

 

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Michael Furry
(Login MKVSPIT)
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71.240.139.20

FAA Corsair

October 24 2012, 8:08 PM 

 

 

Get the book Corsair KD431 The Time Capsule Fighter. It will give the information you are looking for as well as raise many more questions. An excellent book.


 

 

 

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David Hansen
(Login Falcon50EX)
HyperScale Forums
208.71.200.96

i second that.

October 24 2012, 9:09 PM 

 

 

KD431 offered some good info on the tail end of the Goodyear FG-1A programme.

-d-


 

 

 

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Steven Modeldad Eisenman
(Login modeldad)
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71.245.227.142

But only for a Corsair IV. There were prequals. I, II and III

October 24 2012, 9:21 PM 

 

 




 

 

 

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David Hansen
(Login Falcon50EX)
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64.134.132.86

I was wrong . (Birdcage Corsair wheel wells revisited)

October 25 2012, 9:38 AM 

 

 

A friend of mine showed me some shots taken by Bill May last year of the Corsair pulled from lake Michigan. The wheel well interiors are light aircraft gray like the undersides. The paint also appeared to be in fairly good condition.

Now i don't know if the plane went thru a rework facility or not, but my guess is given the time frame that it did not.

I honestly thought the wheel wells on that aeroplane were Salmon. i was wrong.

-d-

 

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On 10/21/2016 at 00:02, Fernando said:

Hi, Seahawk and 85sqn,

 

MAM magazine, 2005-8, BPF Special, offers a profile (I know, a profile) of KD838 "111/B" from 1851 Sqn, HMS Venerable, in TSS. This has been reproduced in profiles and decal sheets.

Air Britain "Fleet Air Arm Aircraft, 1939-1945", in pg. has two rather fuzzy photos, one of KD838 which might show TSS (or a strangely decolored GSB -we know it didn't bleach), and one of "N8AL" of 723 Sqn, no serial, identified as a IV, which might show the upper/lower camouflage demarcation corresponding to the TSS, and also an overlapping dark paint over the leading edge undersurface, that might indicate that the undersurface was painted a light colour, like in the TSS.

Nothing else for the moment.

 

Fernando

 

Hi Fernando,

 

I've never seen a photo of a TSS Corsair IV.

 

KD838:111/B as reproduced in Sturtivant is in GSB, in my view. There is some flare on the wings, from over-exposure, but otherwise no evidence of a camouflage scheme.  There are a reasonable number of photos of Venerable's Corsairs (all Mk IV in GSB), but I'haven't been able to find another of 111/B. As for the profile evidence.......

 

The photo of N8AL looks more like TSS, but only the caption identifies it as a Mk IV. No serial is given and captions are easy to get wrong (I've got a few wrong myself). It also doesn't appear to have the tall tail wheel. I would say that unless there is firm evidence of a Mk IV serial associated with this aircraft - and N8AL is not listed in the current Air Britain list of Corsair aircraft histories - I would discount this one. 

 

IG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, iang said:

 

Hi Fernando,

 

I've never seen a photo of a TSS Corsair IV.

 

KD838:111/B as reproduced in Sturtivant is in GSB, in my view. There is some flare on the wings, from over-exposure, but otherwise no evidence of a camouflage scheme.  There are a reasonable number of photos of Venerable's Corsairs (all Mk IV in GSB), but I'haven't been able to find another of 111/B. As for the profile evidence.......

 

The photo of N8AL looks more like TSS, but only the caption identifies it as a Mk IV. No serial is given and captions are easy to get wrong (I've got a few wrong myself). It also doesn't appear to have the tall tail wheel. I would say that unless there is firm evidence of a Mk IV serial associated with this aircraft - and N8AL is not listed in the current Air Britain list of Corsair aircraft histories - I would discount this one. 

 

IG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, Iang,

Yep, that's why the general "tone" of my post was rather skeptical.

FErnando

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