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KP/AZ central discussion, questions & answers


Jan Polc

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16 hours ago, Jan Polc said:

What you think happened Marko? I think that they work on it. Kit is not a question of one week, you know...

Not only weeks, but years!  I heard of the Cessna's in 2013 for the first time!!!

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Cessnas aren't the oldest ones we are still waiting for...

All we have seen the box with painting schemes for Miles Master in ... December 2012 :)

Cheers

Michael

 

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Gentlemen, kit release planning is a complex question.

It is affected by many factors. Among them - 

Market needs and capacity, it is a case of Miles Master f. i. There were more serious projects fulfilling the market needs.

Cashflow, it is a question of Cessna family. After the sales figures of Piper Cub KP/AZ decided to postpone another civilian high-wing aircraft.

Technological problems, it is a case of P-47B or Bf 109G-12. How to make canopy for G-12 was a problem KP/AZ was working on for moreless year.

Competition, it is a case of Arado 96. Everybody knows SH released the same kit and there is no room on the market.

"Too much Spitfires", when some companies release the same type even in various versions it is not so fine to release one more. It is a case of Spitfire Vc.

And in the end, Capacity, KP/AZ team is very small, some ten people in total, including freelancers. So, time to time is necessary to switch to the project which is not so much time consuming to keep cashflow and other economical aspects on reasonable level.

 

Working on the new kit looks a little bit another way then to tell ourselves " This we will release this week..."

 

I hope that my answer explained the complex of kit production.

Edited by Jan Polc
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An excellent explanation of the issues facing small manufacturers. Too many small companies fail because their ambitions exceed their capabilities and they take on impractical projects. The KMC Boeing 727 is a case in point. But it sounds like the KP/AZ team know exactly what to do and how to do it.

Edited by Space Ranger
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Dear Jan,

 

I understand completely what you said. But please just tell us only the models of which you are sure that you will put them on the market, say, within a year.

Otherwise we are becomming very frustrated that every year you postpone the announced kits.  Every year at Telford we asked you when comes the Cessna, Kingfisher etc. etc. and every time we hear: next year!

 

So please stop frustrating us and tell us only if you are very sure!!

 

Hans

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Dutchplane - it is reasonable question. But, it is not so easy as you think.

Just to explain - I can tell you in Telford "Yes, we will do Me 262 the next year. And even we are working on it. Then we can realize that Airfix will release it. So we have to decide if we will release it or not. This kind of war is not good for both sides. So even if I told you Me 262 is in the pipeline, we postpone it. And, this will cause also Cessnas. Because Me 262 had to bring us some cashflow we can  make civilian aircraft with much more lower cashflow expectations. But 262 cash is not coming. So, it is postponed also and we have to do " Plan B". It is a complex. Everything connected with everything.

AZ as a small company has to have big manouverability, believe me.

I am not personally a friend of announcing news which are a little bit far, but we have to do it. We have to inform our distributors and end customers to influence their purchase plans.... Etc. Etc. Come to our stand in Telford this year and we can discuss it personally, you know you will get answer to all your questions.

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I also have been waiting on the Cessna's for a very long time and I understand that they probably will not be top sellers but I remain hopeful that we will see them in the near future. I have supported AZ models by buying models that I am not that  interested in just to keep the cash flow coming in so the less popular planes could be produced. 

I understand what Jan is saying but I'm not sure how much longer I can afford to do this just to keep my little pipe dream alive.

Jan mentioned that the sales of the Piper J-3 and Super Cub were slow but Hannants and Aviation Megastore seem to sell out quickly every time they restock......

 

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I personally don't know much about the history of the Cessna kits that you're speaking about. Speaking as a Modeler though i should say something. I would have loved, would love to build civilian aircraft like Cessna’s, Pipers, & Beech’s. Only one company in the past has made them to any degree and that was Mini-craft. I think there is more of a market out there than manufacturers would like to admit. 

    I know several private pilots that would love to have a model of the airplane they fly. Some are commercial or retired commercial pilots. They can get all sorts of commercial airliner kits, yet almost nothing of the private types. I really think this is a case of build it and they (the buyers) will come. I know even with my $ issues, i would try to buy any of them i could. I am desperate to build them. 

 

Dennis

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Other companies, such as Fuji, have dipped their fingers into light civilian subjects but judging from the lack of response or follow-ups the buyers weren't out there, not in commercial numbers.  Airfix of course did the Piper Arrow, more than one company have done the Skymaster (the military version isn't that different),  Heller and KP (original) did the Cub.  I'm reminded of the ex-ATC cadets who used to tell me that Airfix would have made a fortune had they done the early gliders...  I'm afraid that the mass market only likes big civil airliners and killing machines.

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Gentlemen, I did not say that KP/AZ cancelled Cessnas. In contrary Petr asked me to start with 3 views. It is clear signal that it is close. Even more close is another civilian project, Piper Pawnee.

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To be here and answer your questions is very nice. Some of you became my "pen-friends", some of you I know personally. Spending time here is a pleasure.

 

Have you heard that AZ is working on completely new X-3 Stiletto and what if SR-53 twoseater? 🙂

Edited by Jan Polc
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1 hour ago, Jan Polc said:

Have you heard that AZ is working on completely new X-3 Stiletto and what if SR-53 twoseater? 🙂

A completely new X-3? What was wrong with the one they just released?

 

I agree with Dennis that we need more civilian aircraft. Seems they were more popular years ago. I remember buying Comet kits of the Piper Apache, Aero Commander, Beech 18, and Cessna 310, all in 'box' scales. Aurora later acquired the molds and re-released them. Lindberg did several light civilian aircraft kits back in the '50s: Piper Cub, Stinson Flying Station Wagon, Ercoupe, and Republic SeaBee, all in 1/48, although the fuselages had no cutouts for transparencies. Airfix has done a Hawker Siddeley 125, a Britten-Norman Islander, and a Beagle Basset. More recently, Amodel has released several civilian aircraft in kit form: Falcons 10 and 50, a Jetstream, several Lear Jets, a Hansa Jet, and such oddities as a Lear Fan, Beech Starship, Piaggio Avanti, and Adam 500. But we still need kits of the more common single- and twin-engine types seen at the local airport.

 

Jan, I have a lot of Cessna factory 3-views and would be happy to forward copies. I have a lot of material on the Cessna T-50, as I am writing a book on that aircraft. I was a consultant to Squadron on their 'Bamboo Bomber' Czech Model kit. I also have some Aero Commander factory 3-views with dimensional data. I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

Edited by Space Ranger
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As a life long "airport bum "  I agree with Space Ranger. 

I have a love for small airports, along with the planes and people that inhabit them , My fondest memories of my youth were spent there as well as most of my adulthood.  The lack of civilian light plane kits is very disappointing to me because I feel that there is a market for those type of planes. 

Maybe I am the last of a dying breed and my thoughts do not matter to the mass modeling population but do I respect AZ Models for their willingness to produce the Cessna's along with the Piper kits and I wish them great success  !

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The Airfix 125 and Basset were both military releases, as was their Jetstream and the rerelease of the Islander.  I think the Matchbox 125 had a civilian option, but these are all rather above the light aircraft for private use that started the discussion.  But Airfix gave us two military options in their Beaver.

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6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The Airfix 125 and Basset were both military releases, as was their Jetstream and the rerelease of the Islander.  I think the Matchbox 125 had a civilian option, but these are all rather above the light aircraft for private use that started the discussion.  But Airfix gave us two military options in their Beaver.

True, but the 125 and Bassett can both be civilianized by a simple change in markings, and there are many after-market decals for the Beaver, including at least one Turbo Beaver (TurBeaver?) conversion kit. Not your light Cessnas and Pipers to be sure, but certainly more colorful than the usual camouflaged military aircraft models.

 

And speaking of light Cessnas, I'd love to see a 1/72 Cessna 172/Skyhawk. I think there have been more of those built than any other light civil aircraft in history.

Edited by Space Ranger
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FWIW, Eidai (or Arii, maybe reboxed?) did a few 1/72 civil aviation types some years ago - Cessna 172 Skyhawk (wheeled and floatplane versions), Cessna 337/O2 Skymaster, Beechcraft Bonanza, Fuji Aerosubaru, even a Bede BD-5J; probably some others. I have the 172 floatplane and maybe the Bonanza stashed away - I recall that these were decent enough kits, although probably very hard to find now. I'm not suggesting AZ should not release modern kits of these aircraft, I only offer this information in the spirit of the nostalgic trend already established!

 

John

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4 hours ago, John Thompson said:

FWIW, Eidai (or Arii, maybe reboxed?) did a few 1/72 civil aviation types some years ago - Cessna 172 Skyhawk (wheeled and floatplane versions), Cessna 337/O2 Skymaster, Beechcraft Bonanza, Fuji Aerosubaru, even a Bede BD-5J; probably some others. 

I have a few of those myself. They were good kits in their day, but badly need replacing by modern, cutting edge kits.

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To the civilian aircraft once more - KP released two new gliders in 1/72 - Astir and Czech VSO-10, both are Club Class aircraft.

It is nearly half of the year. We will see if Cessnas will reach Telford this year...

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KP have also given us the Cmelak, Morava and assorted Zlins (still hoping for a 526A...), so they have been very kind to General Aviation modellers in recent times.

 

Personally, rather than replicating the kits that Eidai made, I'd like to see things like the Piper Comanche and Tomahawk, and more modern things like RVs and Europas. Of course, selling kits to all the people who would want one might only result in a few dozen sales, which might not make much sense financially.

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Hola Jan

never mind all that civilian tat make more things with guns & bombs & missiles & rockets, for instance a nice family of state of the art Skyraiders would be very nice, clever design of the tooling would allow all variants to be made, the early versions would be especially welcome, as to my knowledge the early marks have never been done in mainstream injection moulding. ( I had to put that last bit in as some know it all will inevitably pipe up that somebody in 1987 produced 12 resin kits of the prototype).

Now that I know where you will be this year I will visit at the nationals having missed you last year.

ps

If you have to make civilian stuff an Aero Commander would be acceptable as it was used by numerous airforces so would satisfy both camps.

 

Edited by spaddad
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