Best Starfighter model?

[Beardylong]

I've fallen in love with the Starfighter, having watched the video of the recent return to flight of the Norwegian CF104-D. I'd like to have a go at modelling one in Norwegian colours - what's the best example out there? Probably 1/48 and are there aftermarket decals out there for it? https://www.facebook.com/starfighter.no/videos/1444501105577450/

[Giorgio N]

The Best Starfighter kits in both 1/48 and 1/72 come from Hasegawa. In 1/48 scale the second best is the monogram kit (often reboxed by Revell) but this doesn't come close to the quality of the Japanese offering. The Monogram kit is also not available as a two-seater. In 1/72 scale on the other hand the Revell kit is also quite nice and a good second best while the Esci/Italeri kits are also acceptable (no two-seater though)

 

Your best choice for Norwegian Starfighter decals is Vingtor, who made sheets for both the F and the CF-104. Better check the availability though, older Vingtor sheets may no longer be easy to find. The sheet you need is 48004

 

 

[Whisky Papa]

I asked Vingtor a couple of years ago: No reprint intended was the reply then...

 

Click FAQs...

 

Jens

[Duncan B]

The NATO boxing of the Eduard (Hasegawa plastic with Eduard resin) kit includes a Norwegian option.

 

Duncan B

[Work In Progress]

Bear in mind that some Revell 1/48 Starfighters are Monogram tooling while some other Revell 1/48 Starfighters are Hasegawa tooling. Boxing 4552 is the Hasegawa one. Video in-box review here:

 

[Artie]

Hasegawa, by far......If you don't mind raised panel lines and tiny rivets, Monogram would be a nice option, as you've been already told. The Esci kit is a good kit for a rainy saturday evening, with raised panel lines, no cockpit detail and a parts layout wich can turn you demented.

As already said, Hasegawa....Revell re-boxing depicts a blue/white Luftwaffe machine.

Cheers...

[exdraken]

if you really wanna build a top notch Starfighter, you should go Hasegawa WITH the Daco improvement set:

http://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/accessories/dacof104improvementsetreviewbg_1.htm

 

[71chally]

21 hours ago, Beardylong said:

Probably 1/48 and are there aftermarket decals out there for it?

If you go up a scale then there is the recent excellent 1:32nd Italeri offering which is claimed to be the best Starfighter kit, review here http://www.finescale.com/reviews/kit-reviews/2014/05/italeri-starfighter

I wouldn't pay the full asking price though, you do see it on offer quite regularly.

 

Hasegawa and Revell also covered the type in 32nd, but are old kits now.

[Giorgio N]

6 hours ago, 71chally said:

If you go up a scale then there is the recent excellent 1:32nd Italeri offering which is claimed to be the best Starfighter kit, review here http://www.finescale.com/reviews/kit-reviews/2014/05/italeri-starfighter

I wouldn't pay the full asking price though, you do see it on offer quite regularly.

 

Hasegawa and Revell also covered the type in 32nd, but are old kits now.

 

The Italeri 1/32 kit can lead to an impressive looking model, however IMHO it's not the best Starfighter kit around. The shape is good and the detail is mostly accurate, however the moulding is not what I'd expect from a 21st Century kit of that price. Panel lines are not as well defined as should be, some of them change in depth and width over the length of the lines, some details are clunky... then there's a decal sheet that looks great in the box but has some weird inaccuracies, like roundels of the wrong size. All for what is a hefty price. Italeri could have done better with this one ! Fortunately their following Mirage 1/32 kit seems to be much better, I hope that the next Italeri 1/32 kits will continue this trend.

[Starfighter]

Having built the Italeri kit I can agree with Giorgio. It can be made into an impressive model, but does need work in some areas.  the aft canopy section is not quite deep enough and the coaming behind the seat is angled down on the kit when it should be more or less level, like the top of the fuselage. Also, as Giorgio noted the panel lines are variable in depth.

Regarding the decals, there are inaccuracies with them. If you want to do a German F-104 then get the Daco decals . . . They are the most accurate decals I've seen. Having built both the Italeri and Hasegawa models I'd say the Hase kit with it's fine raised panel lines looks more like the smooth surface finish of a real F-104. Of course, being a newer kit the Italeri one does have extra detail like the main wheel bay, but it is rather expensive. Now if Daco upscaled their detail set to 1/32 . . . Well, at least I can dream, can't I ?    

Edited October 8, 2016 by Starfighter

[RobertF]

On 8-10-2016 at 0:19 AM, exdraken said:

if you really wanna build a top notch Starfighter, you should go Hasegawa WITH the Daco improvement set:

http://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/accessories/dacof104improvementsetreviewbg_1.htm

 

 

Fully agree with that! This set is so comprehensive, it's almost a new kit.

 

One of the advantages: you don't have to do the tedious job of filling all the rivets in the Hasegawa wings. In real life, these rivets were puttied and sanded smooth to optimize the air flow over the upper wings.

 

Robert.

[RobertF]

As for 1/32 scale, bear in mind that there are notable differences between the F-104 G and S models. I have not seen the new Italeri kit, but if it's an S model it may not be so easy to convert it into a G model, in which case I'd choose the Hasegawa kit with some AM items.

 

Robert

[Jessica]

5 minutes ago, RobertF said:

As for 1/32 scale, bear in mind that there are notable differences between the F-104 G and S models. I have not seen the new Italeri kit, but if it's an S model it may not be so easy to convert it into a G model, in which case I'd choose the Hasegawa kit with some AM items.

 

Robert

The Italeri kit is definitely a -G with some -S parts.

[RobertF]

That's good to hear/read. The S parts being?

 

Robert

[Jessica]

Intakes, Extra pylons/missiles and the lower rear fuselage fins.

[RobertF]

OK.

IIRC the main differences between the G and S model are:

-  while the G's nose wheel deploys forward, the S's nose wheel deploys backward (like with the T version), possibly (I'm not sure on this) resulting in a bulkier fuselage in the area in front of the cockpit

-  the S uses a different (larger) engine, which results in a wider fuselage (and different intakes) in the engine area.

The latter may not be too noticeable in 1/48 or even 1/32, but the different nose wheel configuration is.

 

I'll see if I can find the book I found this information in. That may take a while...

 

Robert

 

[71chally]

F-104G and S nose wheels both placed in the same positions and retract forward, not heard of the fuselage differences.

 

I think the trainers/Ds nose gear retracts rearwards as the second seat occupies what was the nose gear bay.

Edited October 16, 2016 by 71chally

[Giorgio N]

As 71chally said, only the two-seaters had the nose wheels retracting the opposite way, the G and the S both the wheel retracting forward. And so are the A and C.

Fuselage width is the same, the engine of the S is more powerful but is just another variant of the J79. Being more powerful, required slightly different intakes, shorter by 1" and with larger auxiliary doors. The S also used a different, longer exhaust but this was also retrofitted to a number of Gs as part of the J79 smoke reduction program.

The other structural difference between G and S is the number of ventral fins: the S has 2 more beside the central one of the G. The central fin is slightly smaller on the S as the leading edge is swept by 45 degree instead of the 30 degree in the G.

Last difference is the number of pylons. The S has 2 per wing and can also carry a pilon under each intake (practically never used).

There are then a number of small details related to the electronic fit. These changed over time and also differ between the two subvariants of the S, the CI (interceptor with Sparrow missiles) and the CB (strike/attack). The ASA and ASAM updates also introduced slight differences in the various antennas

[Vingtor]

I would have liked to reprint the decals requested. However, it is a great investment and as there are many unused decal sheets out there, I assume only a few would actually be sold.

 

Nothing is definite though....

 

Nils

[RobertF]

Well, i'm glad I used the IIRC caveat, since it is clear from 71chally's and GiorgioN's posts that I did NOT remember it correctly. I stand corrected; thanks for your information chaps!

 

(note to myself: next time, check your facts before posting.)

 

Robert

[Dennis_C]

Hi, Giorgio, 

When did the retrofitting program started in Aeronautics Militate? I.e. when did pure G's disappear from usage in Italy?

I plan to build Italian F-104 from Hasegawa's 1/72 G/S set - but also want to use resin exhaust which is for G version.

Regards,

Dennis.

[Giorgio N]

Robert, some facts are harder to verify than others, it happens to everyone to post information that can then be found wrong. The fatter rear fuselage of the F-104S for example is something that has been stated quite often in what are very reliable books. Other sources have disputed this and have come to the conclusion that the fuselage is the same. In this case it would be easy to be misled.

 

Dennins, I'll check a couple of local modellers who know really everything on the Italian Starfighters, however I believe that the Italian Gs were not retrofitted with the S aferburner (while all German Gs were). This picture shows one of the very last Gs in service in the early '90s and the nozzle is the original one:

 

 

Notice on the picture above the low visibility roundels and number and the chaff dispensers added during the last years in service.

 

Regarding when the G left service, one Stormo (roughly the Italian Air Force equivalent of a USAF wing) kept the G in service til the very end and this was 3rd Stormo. This unit was tasked with tactical recce and operated a mix of F and RF-104Gs. The Fs carried the Orpheus pod under the fuselage while the RFs used the internal camera set.

Other units exchanged the G for the S starting with 5th Stormo in 1969. Other F-104G units moved on the S starting that same year, with the 4th, 9th, 36th, 51st and 53rd re-equipping on the S between 1969 and 1972. 5th, 36th and 51st Stormo were organised on 2 Gruppi (groups), with one group operating the interceptor version of the S while the other the fighter bomber version of the F-104S. Those Stormi on one single group (4th, 9th, 53rd) operated the interceptor. The exception was 37th Stormo, that was re-established in 1984 with a number of fighter bombers made redundant by the introduction of the Tornado. 37th Stormo never operated the G.

The G remained in service for longer in 6th Stormo and was replaced by the Tornado in 1982. This unit is very interesting because it was the best known of the "special" units, where special meant it was tasked with the nuclear strike mission.

[Hook]

3 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

This unit was tasked with tactical recce and operated a mix of F and RF-104Gs. The Fs carried the Orpheus pod under the fuselage while the RFs used the internal camera set.

 

AFAIK all RF-104G's in Italian service used the Orpheus pod late in their career, the internal suite being removed.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Dennis_C]

Hi Giorgio, thank you for detailed response. I should probably look closer to 3° stormo. One more question - what was happening to G's upon they were replaced with S's throughout most of the stormi? Were they sold out or just scrapped?

[Giorgio N]

On 19/10/2016 at 1:58 PM, Hook said:

 

AFAIK all RF-104G's in Italian service used the Orpheus pod late in their career, the internal suite being removed.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

Yes, the internal cameras fell from use and actually most aircrafts used by 3rd Stormo late in their career were F-104Gs with the Orpheus pod. These aircrafts were also the Starfighters that carried out the longest missions with the heaviest load in Italian service and as they had the original G engine they sometimes struggled a bit at takeoff

 

7 hours ago, Dennis_C said:

Hi Giorgio, thank you for detailed response. I should probably look closer to 3° stormo. One more question - what was happening to G's upon they were replaced with S's throughout most of the stormi? Were they sold out or just scrapped?

 

A number of Gs were passed to 3rd Stormo, that only left the RF-84F in 1973. Back then this unit was formed by 3 Groups, the first group converted to the RF-104 in 1970 but the other two groups took longer to receive their aircrafts and received Gs that had been retired from other units.

Other Gs remained at 20th Gruppo (the F-104 OCU) and as seen before 6th Stormo retained the Gs til their replacement with Tornadoes in 1982/3.

Tthe rest were kept in storage and later disposed of, some in military dumps but most sold to civilian scrappers. Quite a good number survived and are today preserved in the most diverse places, ranging from the usual military bases to village squares to private buildings and gardens. The best known of the surviving Gs is probably MM6546, donated after its retirement from the Air Force to Ferrari and repainted in red with codes 4-27 (4 for 4th Stormo and 27 to remember the number carried by Gilles Villeneuve). This aircraft is located at the Ferrari private racetrack in Fiorano