P-51D, 352 FG, 8th Air Force, RAF Bodney

[Mitch K]

I was born and grew up in Norfolk, surrounded by active and former air fields. RAF Watton was at the other end of the town and when I was tiny there were RAF Canberras flying out of there in the strike role. 

 

Nearby were many ex-USAAF airfields: Shipdham, North Pickenham, Wendling and Deopham Green were all within about 10 miles, and had had 8th Air Force bombers flying from them.

 

Then, there was RAF Bodney. If you turned right at the front gate of the house I was born in and followed the road for about four miles, you came to the remains of RAF Bodney. From the road, you could see the old water tower and some concrete standings. If you took a chance on not getting caught, and had a wander, the control tower was there. By that time, the airfield had been largely turned back over to agriculture, the original use of the land before the war.

 

During the war, the airfield was home to the three squadrons of the 352 Fighter Group, the 328, 486 and 487 Fighter Squadrons. The group had flown P-47's before trading them in for their P-51's, first B models and later D's. The Bowdlerised version of the unit's name is the "Blue Nosed Birds of Bodney". The actual name used by the officers and men among themselves replaced "Birds" with a word beginning with "B" denoting a rough, tough crew of unknown parentage.

 

The nose colour is lighter than US Insignia Blue, but still a strong, dark shade. Research has identified it as RAF Deep Sky Blue, supplied by the RAF. This matches out to about Methuen 20E7. Airfix's P-51D will be the basis, and for markings I'm spoiled for choice, with Microscale, Eagle Cal and Eagle Strike all offering options.

 

I'm currently toying with doing two builds: possibly two Bodney birds, or replacing one with a 359 FG aircraft. The 359 were based at RAF East Wretham (Station 133), and flew with green noses.

[trickyrich]

Welcome aboard, what a great background for your build, something really local to you. Will be nice to see her in that scheme.

 

Good luck with the build.

[wellzy]

Looking forward to your builds love the blues great looking Mustangs 

 

Les

[gingerbob]

Y'know, I'm still mulling which Mustang to attempt for this GB, and I think this thread might have re-suggested the B "The Flying Scot", which I've been meaning to do for a few years now...  The Blue-nosers are some of my favorites for purdy, too.

 

bob

[wellzy]

Hi Mitch here`s two of my Blue nose build`s ,hope you like them,

 

 

 

 

Hope you enjoy your build ,Les

[jean]

Hi Mitch,

 

this is going to be fun as the Blue Noses are amongst the most photogenic Mustangs of the 8th AF.

It would seem though, that the shade of the blue used has fluctuated between a medium and a darker blue. I know life is never easy, but this type of uncertainty is not only unbearable, but downright unacceptable.

Can the RAF Deep sky blue be translated in Humbrolese?

 

Have a lot of fun!

JR

[DAG058]

I'll be following this build with interest. There is now a memorial at the gate to the men who flew from there.

 

I think this months FlyPast magazine has an article on Blue Nosed Mustangs.

[Mitch K]

18 hours ago, jean said:

Hi Mitch,

 

this is going to be fun as the Blue Noses are amongst the most photogenic Mustangs of the 8th AF.

It would seem though, that the shade of the blue used has fluctuated between a medium and a darker blue. I know life is never easy, but this type of uncertainty is not only unbearable, but downright unacceptable.

Can the RAF Deep sky blue be translated in Humbrolese?

 

Have a lot of fun!

JR

I can't translate it! There were broadly two different colours used, as you say. The earlier one was slightly lighter. I wonder also if there was also a question of whether the Deep Sky Blue was supplied only from British-made RAF stock or also from (e.g.) DuPont manufactured equivalents used on aircraft supplied to the RAF under MAP!

[jean]

2 hours ago, Mitch K said:

I can't translate it! There were broadly two different colours used, as you say. The earlier one was slightly lighter. I wonder also if there was also a question of whether the Deep Sky Blue was supplied only from British-made RAF stock or also from (e.g.) DuPont manufactured equivalents used on aircraft supplied to the RAF under MAP!

 

Who said modelling was easy?

[wellzy]

2 hours ago, jean said:

 

Who said modelling was easy?

l readI in the Osprey book they use Prussian blue  FS35052  so l used. vallejo Prussian blue

[Mitch K]

The reference came from a group that has done vast volumes of research on the 352nd and whose members have published a slew of books. From there I got the Methuen reference and with my handy book of colour chips, I'm away!

[Troy Smith]

Quote

Blue, Blue, Blue, What Shade of Blue!    November 20 2011, 8:01 PM 

I posted this last month. The Eagle Editions decals for George Preddy gives formulas for the blues used on 352nd P-51s. The booklet was written by Mark Proulx (who posts on HS) and Sam Sox, Jr. (352nd Photo Archivist). 

"By now, the 352nd FG had adopted a much darker blue to identify their aircraft, though it was still applied 
to the same locations. This new blue is similar to RAF Deep Sky Blue. It is important to remember that it is likely 
that British stocks of paints were used and no identical FS 595b color chip exists. However, FS 35052 is considered 
a very close match. 
From Model Master paints, 
colors could be mixed accordingly: 
16 Parts #2730 Chrysler Engine Blue 
3 Parts #2718 Guards Red 
2 Parts #2720 Classic White 

Colors (approximate) are also available from these 
sources: 
1. Vallejo Model Color 965 Prussian Blue 
2. Misterkit MKRAF18 Deep Sky Blue 
3. Tamiya XF-8 Flat Blue " 
Eagle Editions stated, in their Preddy Sheet that Vallejo Prussian Blue was a close match with Deep Sky Blue. 

Blue, Blue, Blue, What Shade of Blue! 
by Sam Sox, Jr from Bluenoser Tales by Robert "Punchy" Powell. 
Bluenoser Tales Robert H. Powell United Writers Press Inc (September 15, 2007) HB 1934216380 978-1934216385 
Pardon the typos (this was OCR) 

"One of the most frustrating chores of an artist, modeler, or warbird restorer is trying to determine from black and white photographs what color a particular subject was. As is well known, very few color pictures or slides were taken in the ETO. What has appeared was via someone in the states sending color film to a loved one or as the Allies moved through France and Belgium, stumbling on film stock in deserted photography stores. Another frustration for aviation historians has been in them trying to determine what the various shades of blue that were used by the squadrons of Mustangs in the 352nd FG. Anyone who has looked at a large quantity of pictures of the Group's Mustangs has noticed that there were See foot note two to three different shades of gray recorded depicting the blue nacelles areas. Next was attempting determine if these varying tones of gray were different shades of blue or were the variances due to the photographer using different types of black and white mm. There were two types of film being used by "official" photographers during WW II, each capturing color in different ways. As the researcher, you never had the privilege of knowing what type of film was used when a particular subject was photographed. There were basically 2 types of mm used for still picture, Orthochromatic and Panchromatic. "Ortho" recorded Blues and yellows lighter - Reds were captured darker than the subject was in reality. Panchromatic film captured blues and yellows darker and the color red lighter. All this added to the confusion. George Nunemacher's cast aluminum model of a P-51D made at Bodney in the summer of 1944. The blue on the nose is actual 352nd FG nose paint. Decals were added later. This correct mid-1944 shade is carried currently on Kermit Week's recreation of "Cripes A Mighty 3rd." 

The 352nd was lucky in that 2 blue items which had been painted in 1944 survived and could be used as resources in tyeing down what the blues actually looked like. The first item was the name panel off Lt. Robert H "Punchy" Powell's first Mustang named "the West by Gawd West Virginian." Due to the fact that the Mustang had crashed on July 18, 1944 and portions burned, the panel bore smoke damage and could not be used for nailing down the exact shade of the most widely used shade of medium blue. The second artifact was a 1/72 scale ID aluminum model prepared by Sgt. George Nunemacher of the 486th FS. 

In the mid-1980s while visiting with George at one of the Group Association Reunions, I informed him of the problems I were having in identifying the various shades of blue. He told me that one of the Metalsmiths in the squadron had made in late Summer of 1944, a sand cast using a black 1/72 scale ID model. He melted down scrape aluminum and produced about 6 or so. When George completed polishing his model in September of 1944, he says he went over to the 486th FS Paint Shack and opened a can of blue and one of yellow and painted it. He told me that he still had it. He advised me that he had displayed it very little since the war always being careful to keep it away from any direct sun light. He volunteered to loan it to me. When I received it, I lightly polished the blue so as to remove oxidation that may have occurred and took it to a buddy who ran an auto repair shop. I had seen his extraordinary ability of matching almost any color. He completed the match and provided me with some sheets of the color from which I made color chips. 
I noticed in reviewing the ever increasing number of pictures that had been taken in the Fall of 1944, the gray on the nacelle areas had changed significantly to a much darker gray indicating just more than a possible change in film type. The noted 8th AF author Roger Freeman stated in one of his many books that one of the stipulations of the USA/British Lend/Lease Agreements was the provision that the British would be responsible for filling US paint requirements. He indicated that the illusive blue was the British color Deep Sky Blue. Over the years, I had established a friendship with a fellow in England, Bill Espie, who as child, had as his playground the old air base at Bodney in East Anglia. He told me that he had previously been successful in locating from several dumps sites on the base some cans of red and OD paint. I asked him if would see if he could locate a sample of the paint from the old base. A few weeks later he called me and told me that he had visited the base on Oct 15, 1998. On one of the remaining walls in one of the Latrines in the 328th FS area, had found the remains of some artwork. On one of the bricks was the dark blue. He removed the brick and sent it to me. I had the paint computer matched and color chips prepared. 

During a visit to England in May 1999, I visited the deHavilland Mosquito Museum and by chance mentioned to its curator Geoff Follett my problem and the story about how I had obtained a sample of a dark blue from the old base at Bodney. I needed to verify that what I had was indeed Deep Sky Blue. He said he would look into it for me. Shortly upon returning to the states, I received a letter. It not only contained a paint chip but the Pantone formula for paint. It was the same shade of blue as had been retrieved from the sample on the brick. I learned that it had also been applied to British Mosquito aircraft which flew Photo Reconnaissance missions. At last after searching 15 years, the mystery had been uncovered and all the questions surrounding the varying shades of gray appearing on black and white photos and few bits of color photography answered. It should be noted that the first most prevalently applied shade medium blue has no accompanying Federal Standard 595 match (the US Military Color Standard). Its source and ID is still a mystery. 

Footnote. A very light shade of blue was applied to a couple of the Olive Drab and Gray Mustangs in the 486th FS. It appears that several applications were being experimented with to determine what shade of blue showed up best and covered OD surfaces. This color too has never been officially identified." 

 

from http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1321745072

 

there are more upon Hyperscale, the search function works quite well, I used 'bodney blue' 

the quoted one seems  the most useful as to sources.

 

HTH

T

[wellzy]

12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

from http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1321745072

 

there are more upon Hyperscale, the search function works quite well, I used 'bodney blue' 

the quoted one seems  the most useful as to sources.

 

HTH

T

thanks for the heads up ,Les

[Mitch K]

I got my colour info direct from Bill Espie, who is a font of knowledge about the 352 and is quite happy to share what he knows.

 

First, evidence of unstarted kits:

 

 

And of limited progress. As you can see, there's two here: the Wretham bird is going ahead! I'll start a separate thread once there's some more movement.

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

My favourite schemes for the Mustang (Airfix may bear some responsibility for this).....Seriously tempted to join in TBH.  

[Mitch K]

Cockpit details done on the two builds:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mitch K]

Cockpit details done on the two builds:

 

A drybrush reveals moulded details that are almost invisible on the unpainted items. Very nice indeed!

 

And now, this. The clamping forces needed to close up the lower fuselages were significant.

 

 

But nothing compared to what was needed to close the upper fuselage!

 

 

Copious amounts of putty were required, but after sanding, I think  things are OK, at least to a first estimate. I expect to have to revisit the seams after priming.

 

 

With the wings on, they really look like Mustangs!

 

[jean]

Hi Mitch,

 

now you are talking! My primeval memories whisper "Mustangs"... So I think I'll go with it, this time round.

 

Things should start speeding up from now on.

Great show.

JR

[Mitch K]

JR - thanks, I hope so! I'm planning to get the glazing fitted in the next couple of days and blow on some primer. Hopefully the revisit of the seams won't be too bad and thing will race ahead. I'll split one of these out as a 359 FG green nose bird once I get the silver laid down.

[TEMPESTMK5]

Good morning Mitch 

 so far

 

Patrice

[Mitch K]

I'm saddened but not surprised to find that after priming the fuselage seams were still appalling. I tried a simple sanding down but that seemed to achieve nothing, so I've dolloped on another layer of filler, wetted it down with some strong solvent and forced it hard into the joints. Hopefully this should melt into the surface and once it's sanded everything should be OK now. Whilst I realise this issue might well be down to me, but the effort to close up the fuselage, followed by this, doesn't inspire me to buy a bagful of these and built all the 8th AF fighter groups!

[Troy Smith]

hi Mitch

 

this is the new tool Airfix kit?

I note you left paint on both sides of the cockpit parts, the new tool kits fit so precisely that even layers of paint can cause fit problems.  If you have another kit it maybe worth seeing if a dry fit without paint still has the same effect.

HTH

Quote

 

[Mitch K]

Cheers Troy, but I very much doubt it's the paint. That might give me about two thou (and I scraped the paint off the glue surfaces after I took the photo) whereas the gap I had to close was about 2mm+ (hence the welders' clamps!). I literally couldn't force the fuselage halves together with finger pressure, which I've never had before. I wondered if I'd got some of the internals aligned wrongly, but you can see into the fuselage quite well and even with poking around and wriggling stuff it was a no go.

[Mitch K]

Ordered the decals for both aircraft today! Eagle Strike for the Bodney bird and a Microscale set for the Wretham example. The latter includes a 4th and 352nd FG too. I'm in two minds about the Airfix kit, but I could be bitten by the Mustang bug! 356 FG, blue diamonds on red, anyone?

[Mitch K]

Well, this one isn't going to get finished within the deadline. I finally got the decals today, so I might shunt this immediately into the KUTA build!