617 Squadron Project

[Tim Moff]

I was given a Dambuster book as a present, which had sleeves containing flight plans, logbooks etc. On looking at Guy Gibson's logbook, I made an interesting discovery. The last entry before the raid was regarding the dress rehearsal, that included flying over 'Colchester Reservoir'.

 

Strange I thought, posted here with 3 PARA in 2000, retired from the Regiment in 2011 and stayed in Coly - I do not know of 'Colchester Reservoir'.

 

I know Abberton Reservoir,  which is 3Km away where I often take the kids, has a small nature reserve.

 

http://www.essexwt.org.uk/reserves/abberton-reservoir

 

So I bought the book , 'The Dambusters Raid', by John Sweetman. This described how the area was used to train the crews whilst the 'revolving depth charge' was developed and tested. The road 'dam' crossing the reservoir from Layer de le Haye was indeed the simulated target over those weeks. I now can imagine the noise of those Merlin engines at 60ft in the night, as waves of Lancaster MkIII (type 464) bombers practiced for what was to become the most audacious bombing raid of WWII.

 

On looking further, I found that much of the testing for the 'Upkeep' device was carried out at Reculver, in Kent. Prior to our move to Coly, 3 PARA were based at Dover for 5 years, and I spent some time up on the North Kent coast carrying out various training activities. 

 

With a natural interest in all things aviation and military, (I was bought up in Lakenheath and school was in Mildenhall and then 25 years in the Army!) I knew the basics about the Dams Raid and 617 Sqn. But this grabbed my interest and I have some good reference material. I am normally a 'Jet' builder, but have decided to trace 617Sqns history with models.

 

I have bought 3 x 1/72 Lancs, 1 x new Revell, 1 x old Airfix and 1 x new Airfix tools. The plan is to build them side by side, in flight to hang in my den (double garage!).

 

I have also managed to get a Tamiya 1/72 Mosquito Mk VI, 1/72 Academy Mustang III, as flown post Dams raid for target marking. Looking forwards, I have then got a 1/72 Vulcan (I know, a fight!) which will be a B2 but in anti flash white, a Revell Tornado GR1, possibly converted to GR4 with the special 70 years markings.

 

I am looking for a 1./72 Canberra B2 (difficult to find with the correct canopy) or a B6 - references for these in 617 Sqn markings seem rare, even on 617 websites etc. Now there have been various BI/BIII mods, also the BVII. My logic says the 3 BII (464s) cover it!

 

Then there's the Lincoln - hmm, I take the only option is a conversion from a Lanc?

 

Not original I know, plenty have done it, but with local connections and something different, I thought, 'why not'!

 

Another project in the same vain:

 

https://modelbrouwers.nl/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40310

 

Clearly a long term project, but something different for me until the GBs that interest me kick in next year.

 

So I have started, will post some pics. Any advice, direction, references, spare Canberra's etc welcome!

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by Tim Moff

[Hamden]

 

An interesting looking project, I'll follow along if you don't mind?

 

    Roger

[Tim Moff]

16 minutes ago, Hamden said:

 

An interesting looking project, I'll follow along if you don't mind?

 

    Roger

 

No probs, more the merrier!

[Tim Moff]

Some inital kits, decals etc:

 

Airfix early tool (8004):

 

 

Revell latest Tool:

 

 

 

Airfix new Tool (A09007)

 

 

A pic of a diorama available, detailing Gibson crew, different dress (Gibson flew in shirt sleeves and a German life Jacket).

Tamiya Mosquito VI

 

 

 

 

 

The Mossie comes with bombs and rockets, but I believe that 617s were equipped for target marking - any experts out there? 

 

Wiki says this - anyone have any ref pics? Where this ordanance was loaded, how etc?

 

For marking the Pathfinders used a number of special "Target Indicator" (TI) markers and bombs. These ejected coloured flares or illuminated the target.
Candle Aircraft, TI, Bomb, Type H
the candle was the basic indicator. About 2 feet long by about 2 inches in diameter, it ejected flare pellets (that burned for 15 seconds) sequentially. The type H was filled with alternately coloured pellets (red/yellow or red/green or yellow/green) and illuminated for about 5 1/2 minutes in total
Candles and other pyrotechnics were used as the fillings for the various Target Indicator bombs.
No. 1 Mk 1 TI Bomb
No. 7 Mk 1 Multi-flash Bomb
No. 8 Mk 1 Spotfire Bomb

 

 

The Vulacn and some Airdecals for the older White B2.

 

 

 

Some of the older decals looked ropey, colours different etc, so I invested in some Warbirds decals covering the whole Dams Raid

 

 

and some Xtradecals for the Mossie/Mustang:

 

 

 

[Tim Moff]

Some initial priming of Airfix old:

 

 

have primed the insides of the Revell too. Pics to follow.

[Christer A]

Now this looks like a very ambitious project!

I'll just pull up a chair and enjoy the show, ok?

[Leonl]

I'll follow you on this one as I have started this project myself, though I intend to build other stuff along the way. I have built the Tamiya Mossie, great kit a really enjoyable build. Like you I built mine as a 617 bird (here)... I also have the Mustang, Revell Lancaster, and two Tornados in the stash....

 

Great start..... 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Leonl
Link added

[Harley John]

4 hours ago, Tim Moff said:

4 hours ago, Tim Moff said:

Prior to our move to Coly, 3 PARA were based at Dover for 5 years, and I spent some time up on the North Kent coast carrying out various training activities. 

 

My brother Scott Stevens was in C Coy when 3 Para was at Dover.

Looks like an interesting build! I've got the same Warbirds decals for when I build a Lanc and a GR4. I'll go get a comfy seat.  

[CedB]

Looking forward to this one - I'll tag along if I may

[Fritag]

A double garage for a den Tim?  Lucky man.  Tagging along 

[TonyTiger66]

Hello Tim,

This is a wonderful project.

 

For some time I lived in Derbyshire, close to Derwent Dam. At that time I was a motoring enthusiast. The road alongside the west side of Derwent Dam made for superb late night free practice  .

 

I mention it because I believe 617 also used Derwent, to practice for something a little more important?

 

I am in Australia now, and as such, have a few kits I wouldn't have known about back in the UK.

 

One is the High Planes Canberra. I have it in Mk. 20 and B2 versions. 

I wonder if the B2 would be suitable for your project? I'm not sure how accurate the canopy is, but it's a very nice clear Falcon one:

 

http://www.hpmhobbies.com/products/High-Planes-EE-Canberra-B2-RAF-(Kit-1%3A72).html

 

For the Avro Lincoln, another one I have in the stash, but it's just a little scary  ; I have the Contrails Vac-form.

 

Here is a nice thread on a Russian forum, showing how it builds up (nicely I think   ), and with some good linked articles/pictures.

 

http://karopka.ru/forum/forum259/topic16201/

 

The white metal props aren't a high point of the kit, but overall it is very nicely made and engraved, and not too expensive if it can be found. Replacement resin props are available. The decals seem ok.

 

There are other vac-forms too.

 

Red-Roo make nice resin replacement engine cowls for them. I will be investing in this set on its final release too:

 

http://www.southernskymodels.com.au/AVRO-GAFLincolnMk-30-Mk-31EnhancementSet-4158.html

 

Not only useful for the resin conversion, but all kits. This link is useful in that it mentions all kits of the Lincoln in 1/72.

 

Ray at Southern Sky, is a great chap. 

 

I know these are obscure manufacturers and not mainstream injection, but just thought I'd mention them as a possibility  

 

Good luck with this fascinating build,

 

TonyT

[Tim Moff]

18 hours ago, Leonl said:

I'll follow you on this one as I have started this project myself, though I intend to build other stuff along the way. I have built the Tamiya Mossie, great kit a really enjoyable build. Like you I built mine as a 617 bird (here)... I also have the Mustang, Revell Lancaster, and two Tornados in the stash....

 

Great start..... 

Great stuff - nice Mossie - really want to arm mine - just need the right info!

[Tim Moff]

17 hours ago, Harley John said:

My brother Scott Stevens was in C Coy when 3 Para was at Dover.

Looks like an interesting build! I've got the same Warbirds decals for when I build a Lanc and a GR4. I'll go get a comfy seat.  

Small world - I can't remember him, he may well remember me. We also spent 4 winters in Norway.

[Tim Moff]

8 hours ago, Fritag said:

A double garage for a den Tim?  Lucky man.  Tagging along 

 

Lol not all for me,  I have a corner. We have a table tennis table in there , bikes, work locker for my kit etc . But nice to have a hidey hole.

[Tim Moff]

5 hours ago, TonyTiger66 said:

Hello Tim,

This is a wonderful project.

 

For some time I lived in Derbyshire, close to Derwent Dam. At that time I was a motoring enthusiast. The road alongside the west side of Derwent Dam made for superb late night free practice  .

 

I mention it because I believe 617 also used Derwent, to practice for something a little more important?

 

I am in Australia now, and as such, have a few kits I wouldn't have known about back in the UK.

 

One is the High Planes Canberra. I have it in Mk. 20 and B2 versions. 

I wonder if the B2 would be suitable for your project? I'm not sure how accurate the canopy is, but it's a very nice clear Falcon one:

 

http://www.hpmhobbies.com/products/High-Planes-EE-Canberra-B2-RAF-(Kit-1%3A72).html

 

For the Avro Lincoln, another one I have in the stash, but it's just a little scary  ; I have the Contrails Vac-form.

 

Here is a nice thread on a Russian forum, showing how it builds up (nicely I think   ), and with some good linked articles/pictures.

 

http://karopka.ru/forum/forum259/topic16201/

 

The white metal props aren't a high point of the kit, but overall it is very nicely made and engraved, and not too expensive if it can be found. Replacement resin props are available. The decals seem ok.

 

There are other vac-forms too.

 

Red-Roo make nice resin replacement engine cowls for them. I will be investing in this set on its final release too:

 

http://www.southernskymodels.com.au/AVRO-GAFLincolnMk-30-Mk-31EnhancementSet-4158.html

 

Not only useful for the resin conversion, but all kits. This link is useful in that it mentions all kits of the Lincoln in 1/72.

 

Ray at Southern Sky, is a great chap. 

 

I know these are obscure manufacturers and not mainstream injection, but just thought I'd mention them as a possibility  

 

Good luck with this fascinating build,

 

TonyT

Thanks Tony - yes Derwent was used for low level training as per Abberton,  including dummy bomb runs etc. 

 

Thanks for for the info on the kits - really appreciated, not done any vacform before!

 

 

[spitfire1677]

What a great project, such a great selection of aircraft 

[Harley John]

1 hour ago, Tim Moff said:

Small world - I can't remember him, he may well remember me. We also spent 4 winters in Norway.

Aye, Scott did a few of those as well. Canada and over the water I seem to remember. I'll ask him if he remembers you, I know he's still in touch with a few of his muckers from the Reg. 

[Tim Moff]

started on the various inards - chose to brush paint to add a bit of scruffyness and added a bit of drybrushing in black areas, chips etc. Not much will be seen when buttoned up, let alone when hanging in formation.

 

Will use the Airbrush on the New tool Lanc , Mossie and Mustang.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Added a bit of plasic for the missing Flight Engineers seat in the Revell. This kit has the Navigator and Radio Operators stations, again not much will be seen and the Nav will be on the flight deck, looking at the spotlight altitude aids through the starboard blister, giving the pilot altitude adjustments. The Flight Eng was controlling power and therefore airspeed, so the team could get the correct parameters for the textbook delivery of 60ft and 220 mph. I plan to depict 3 AC that attacked the Mohne Dam, probably G George (Gibson), P Popsie (Martin) and J Johnny (Maltby). The attack pattern on the Sorpe was different, the AC flew at a right angle to the dam, attempting to drop the weapon at the centre point (weapon was not rotating in the bomb bay).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by Tim Moff

[stever219]

IIRC the only aircraft to reach the Sorpe was Joe McCarthy's.

[Tim Moff]

5 hours ago, stever219 said:

IIRC the only aircraft to reach the Sorpe was Joe McCarthy's.

 

+Edit+...Thats correct from the second wave that is - others were either lost en-route, struggled to find the dam.

 

FSgt Brown in in F-Freddie, was part of the 3rd wave. He successfully attacked the Sorpe dam like McCarthy - however there was no breach, just a crumbling crest.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Tim Moff

[stever219]

Thanks Tim.. I must dig out my most recent attempt at an Operation Chastise Lancaster: my subject is S/L Henry Maudslay's ED937 using the new Airfix kit.

 

Have you checked your Vulcan?  The proprietor of our local model shop did one as a commission build recently: of four kits on the shelf two were so badly moulded that they will have to be returned as not fit for purpose/not merchantable quality ant two were "additional work required" (warped but probably buildable).  Two had outer wing panels so badly deformed that there were half-inch gaps along the leading edges on one and the other had had the sprue pushed 1/4" or more into it on withdrawal from the mould, and one had fin halves that only met at the base with the top edges being 5/8" apart.

Edited October 1, 2016 by stever219

[CedB]

Great progress Tim

I was lucky enough to attend a talk in April '15 by George 'Johnny' Johnson, the last living British Dambuster. I posted about the talk but it seems to have gone missing - I finished "T Tommy' in August last year. There's more on the story in the posts and, of course, a WiP.

[Tim Moff]

3 hours ago, stever219 said:

Thanks Tim.. I must dig out my most recent attempt at an Operation Chastise Lancaster: my subject is S/L Henry Maudslay's ED937 using the new Airfix kit.

 

Have you checked your Vulcan?  The proprietor of our local model shop did one as a commission build recently: of four kits on the shelf two were so badly moulded that they will have to be returned as not fit for purpose/not merchantable quality ant two were "additional work required" (warped but probably buildable).  Two had outer wing panels so badly deformed that there were half-inch gaps along the leading edges on one and the other had had the sprue pushed 1/4" or more into it on withdrawal from the mould, and one had fin halves that only met at the base with the top edges being 5/8" apart.

 

 

Thanks - I have taken a quick look, but will need to have a proper gander. Fins seem fine (I need to remove the RWR), but I have heard of warped parts - its second hand, but was sealed in the bag.

[stever219]

My pleasure.  These kits were direct from either Hornby or their wholesaler and the damage appeared to be due to the parts being removed from the moulds too soon and/or mis handled before they'd cooled properly.

[Dazzio]

 I'll be along for the ride, being an Essex Lad (I don't own an white xr3i... Wish I did tho! )  I find the bit about Colchester rather interesting.  Ive also build the Revell Lanc, watch out for the bomb bay, you'll get a nasty step in it. Need to finish the Lanc off tho.  Nice to see you supporting the local guys too Tim.  Warbird decals come from Leigh-on-Sea

 

  Kind Regards,

 

  Dazz