Your favourite paint for RAF interior green?

[Antti_K]

Hello guys,

 

I bought a couple of tins of Humbrol 78 (enamel) just last week. I then painted a chip to compare the colour against the colour chart published in "British Aviation Colours of World War Two". Here's the result; my chip on the right.

 

 

It is interesting to note that after a day or two the painted chip looked too grey and too dark. It is still too dark but now it looks more green. Anyway, I wanted as accurate colours for my Westland Whirlwind as possible and ended up mixing my own paint (on the left). I started by adding Humbrol 23 to Hu 78. Some bright green (Hu 3) was also required. To my eye the result is good and accurate enough. I've also noticed that when mixing Humbrol enamels the paint should be used pretty quickly as these mixed paints turn into sticky goo in weeks.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[janneman36]

@Antti_K noticed the same thing when mixing Humbrol, at first I thought it was about mixing an old formula Humbrol with a new one !

I use Humbrol 90 or 91 to lighten the interior green, works good enough for me ....

 

cheers, Jan

[Antti_K]

Jan, I thought it has something to do with different paint bases. That different pigment requires a different base and these react poorly when mixed with each other. Never thought of that old formula, new formula thing. I must hurry with my Whirlwind, Hurricane and Blenheim...

 

I also noticed that Hu 23 is a very good (if not excellent) match for Sky. Humbrol 90 is far too dark and too brownish.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[72modeler]

This might not be helpful to you or many others that use the 'new' paints, but for those fossils like myself and others who still use enamels or handmixed their colors back when the earth was still cooling, this will sound familiar. I have two  bottles I mixed years ago using Floquil RR paints for one and Pactra enamels for the other (Sure do miss their Military Flats!) that match the colors chips I have, including the Floquil chip charts. You could use the paint brand/s you have with the colors listed below, and adjust as necessary. Of course, you could always ask the  BM 'regulars' to see what the majority thinks is the best of the newer paints- I would think @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Colourcoats RAF grey-green would be  dead on, especially since you are on THAT side of the pond!

Mike

 

Mix is given in drops, but can be any measurement you choose in the same proportion:

70 white

64 dark green

  1 black

  8 yellow

  2 dark blue

 

FWIW, I do have an unopened tin of the original Humbrol RAF grey-green!

[wmcgill]

Two examples of quite different interior greens inside the same Avro Anson from Getty Images. 

 

Accepting the fact that there wasn't a single "one true" interior green is the first step to understanding the folly of searching for the perfectly matched paint/mix.

[Rolls-Royce]

Ah, one is not MAP interior gray green, but RLM 02....😜

Edited August 9, 2021 by Rolls-Royce

[Antti_K]

Thank you for an interesting photo. I think this is the first colour photo I ever see showing Anson interiors. There is clearly a colour that is very close to that sample in the "RAF Museum book". It also looks a close match (judging from a scanned photo) to that paint used in the Hurricane we have here in Finland in its original paint.

 

But the other colour is confusing. How do we know it is Grey Green in the first place?

 

Cheers,

Antti

 

 

[wmcgill]

29 minutes ago, Antti_K said:

Thank you for an interesting photo. I think this is the first colour photo I ever see showing Anson interiors. There is clearly a colour that is very close to that sample in the "RAF Museum book". It also looks a close match (judging from a scanned photo) to that paint used in the Hurricane we have here in Finland in its original paint.

 

But the other colour is confusing. How do we know it is Grey Green in the first place?

 

Cheers,

Antti

 

 

I don't think it would be accurate to call the 2nd interior green "grey green". It would appear that it is one of the (numerous?) interior greens that was not actually the single shade of "interior grey green" many appear to believe in. 

 

For example, how many interior greens (and blue!) are visible in these Lancaster power plant images?

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by wmcgill
add photo

[Graham Boak]

It would be clearer if a more consistent terminology was used, specifically capitals for the first letter of specific names of colour, as opposed to a more generic description.   British-built aircraft did not have a colour called Interior Green, although some American ones did.   British aircraft began the war with a range of interior colours, depending upon the manufacturer, but generally Aluminium or Black (based on a limited knowledge of the possibilities).  Supermarine however used a light colour referred to as an apple green, which to my knowledge has never been properly defined.  At some stage this was replaced throughout the industry by a colour called Grey Green.  I presume this would be around 1941, but if earlier it may be quoted in Paul Lucas's book on BoB camouflage.  What must be borne in mind is that aircraft were not painted with any old paint that was around, but with paints specifically matched to the materials and environment.  (Perhaps less true for interior paints.)  Further, this was wartime, and two pressures were in place.  Prewar stocks were diminishing (the RAF called for a 2 year shelf life of paints in stores) and non-standard colours were not available because they were not being produced.  British factories were under strict control of materials and workforce.  

 

The Anson in the picture is of interest - the inner structure clearly is not in Grey Green, or any other standardised colour.  This could mean that this is an early airframe using prewar stocks of paint suitable for aircraft interiors.  However this seems unlikely as to my knowledge this colour does not seem to have been reported in the UK (absence of evidence not being evidence of absence), and more significantly other parts do seem to be in Grey Green.  Alternatively, this is a Canadian-built example using locally-available paint not to AM/MAP specifications.  It might be best to search in US paint manufacturers' catalogues, assuming that Canadian production records are not available to this level of detail.  I suspect it is some form of tinted zinc chromate primer, which could come in a range of colours.

 

However, generalising from this to claims of wide variation is dangerous.  Early on, most likely.  Later on, most unlikely.

[Black Knight]

Here be a thought for youse.

The very first Land Rovers were painted in War-Surplus RAF interior (aka cockpit) green paint.

They called it Sage Green. 

It is still available

Land Rover also calls this shade of green 'Land Rover Light Green'

Beaulieu Motor Museum has an un-restored 1949 Land Rover in 'Sage Green'

[Jackson Duvalier]

Back on the farm we usedta' use Tamiya XF-71 Cockpit Green as a preshade and then lighten whatever was left in the cup with increasing amounts of XF-12 J.N. Grey, for colour coats and highlights.  It was what we had, and good enough for me, it was.  And frugal on the paint.

 

 

 

(Deep Thought: It seems that out of all my paints, the two Japanese-specific colours I have in stock are solely used to replicate a British colour.)

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

On 8/9/2021 at 9:07 PM, wmcgill said:

 

Accepting the fact that there wasn't a single "one true" interior green is the first step to understanding the folly of searching for the perfectly matched paint/mix.

 

I agree with Graham. The opening post specifically mentions the MAP standard colour named Grey-Green.

 

There was one single standard colour called Grey-Green. Understanding the difference between approved standards and unexplained photographed photographed anomalies is the second step in understanding what perfectly matched paint is perfectly matched to.

[Jochen Barett]

10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Here be a thought for youse.

The very first Land Rovers were painted in War-Surplus RAF interior (aka cockpit) green paint.

They called it Sage Green. 

It is still available

Land Rover also calls this shade of green 'Land Rover Light Green'

Beaulieu Motor Museum has an un-restored 1949 Land Rover in 'Sage Green'

1949 Land Rover Sage Green ... because car enthusiasts are unable to disagree on RLM paint, Maltese Spitfires, or battle ship gray/grey 😉

 

https://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php?topic=27561.0

[wmcgill]

5 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

I agree with Graham. The opening post specifically mentions the MAP standard colour named Grey-Green.

 

There was one single standard colour called Grey-Green. Understanding the difference between approved standards and unexplained photographed photographed anomalies is the second step in understanding what perfectly matched paint is perfectly matched to.

For the record, the OP mentions "RAF interior green". Subsequent posts introduced "Grey-Green".

Edited August 14, 2021 by wmcgill
grammar

[FinnAndersen]

Not meaning to de-rail the discussion completely, but by accident got a tin of Xtracolour Gray green X010, which is supposed to be matt, but wasn't.

 

Always ready to experiment, I used it for the cockpit of one of my recent Spitfires, specifically one with slid back canopy. I do believe that it looks better than the matt grey green. Looking at photos sort of confirm that the original was not matt.

 

Thoughts?

 

/Finn