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Mike

DDoS and Brute Force Attacks on Britmodeller

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Thank you John - please everyone take John's words on board and be assured of the fact that he is working for the benefit of all Britmodeller members :)

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What would be the effect of a few hundred people that kept hitting the submit reply ( I was) or any other buttons (I was) repeatedly because it was slow or we weren't sure (I wasn't sure) if it was working?

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Wasn't you matey.  We've got the logs that prove you're innocent :)

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<miss marple mode> I'd suggest that this is someone who's either had a recent spat on here or has been kicked off the site for whatever reason.  I'd also guess that they have bought a DDOS off the shelf (yes, its a thing, you just pay someone else to do the attack on your behalf), so theres unlikely to be a direct link between the person and the attack.  There may be a financial link between the culprit and the DDOS service which could be spotted, but that could be obscured to.

</Miss marple mode>

 

If this was a high profile site, then the effort would be put into finding the offender, but this site is not of high commercial importance, so once the attack stops the investigation will probably be dropped.

 

Of course, if the attacker has not obfuscated himself and is using his own machine to do the attack, then identifying him will be trivial and he'll get his collar felt pretty quickly.

Edited by tangerine_sedge
Typo!

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5 hours ago, malpaso said:

Good Lord, no.  Probably invite them round to Scotland Yard for a spot of tea and tell them "It's not quite the done thing, Old Boy, what-ho?"

 

Hope it gets sorted.

Cheers Will 

Actually, from what I know about NCA, that's not a bad guess!

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2 hours ago, JohnT said:

it is highly likely that it has been organised by someone within the world wide modelling community

 

Out of curiosity... why?  Why would you be assuming it's someone within the modelling community, rather than a random DDoS attack?  Given the fact that, per the OP, there really hasn't been any *actual* investigation completed, just speculation, why are you guys jumping to that conclusion?  I'm having a hard time believing that Britmodeller would have made someone so upset that they'd go through the time, trouble, expense and risk of such an attack.

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13 minutes ago, ICMF said:

 

Out of curiosity... why?  Why would you be assuming it's someone within the modelling community, rather than a random DDoS attack?  Given the fact that, per the OP, there really hasn't been any *actual* investigation completed, just speculation, why are you guys jumping to that conclusion?  I'm having a hard time believing that Britmodeller would have made someone so upset that they'd go through the time, trouble, expense and risk of such an attack.

 

There are some weird people out there.  Believe me. :mental:  BTW - I recognise your avatar, but not your display name.  pardon my ignorance, but who are you? :)

 

7 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

^ I don't think this is the time to ask those questions.

 

There's never a good time, so why not? :shrug:

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43 minutes ago, ICMF said:

 

Out of curiosity... why?  Why would you be assuming it's someone within the modelling community, rather than a random DDoS attack?  Given the fact that, per the OP, there really hasn't been any *actual* investigation completed, just speculation, why are you guys jumping to that conclusion?  I'm having a hard time believing that Britmodeller would have made someone so upset that they'd go through the time, trouble, expense and risk of such an attack.

 

 

That is a possibility based on information I already have as I suspect most people will have guessed reading my original post.  That information is not being shared in public as the matter may end in a prosecution and/or civil litigation so forgive me for not responding as candidly as your question deserves at this time.  And yes there are people who can get that upset in this world we live in.

 

I wonder what the probability of a random attack would be at any one time and what that probability becomes on the first day of the new site opening?  Of course there are co-incidences and one keeps an open mind and follows evidence where it leads.  The interesting thing to consider is that even if the available evidence does not come up to the standard of a criminal prosecution, a civil case can still be successful as the burden of proof is on the balance of probability.  In other words, is it more likely than not?  That threshold is much lower.  I have completed a great number of successful civil actions where the defendant would escape on the criminal charges due to "lack of evidence".

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4 hours ago, Mike said:

Wasn't you matey.  We've got the logs that prove you're innocent :)

 

Phew..I'm moving back home now from a tent in Thetford Forest where I was hiding from  John T's Lightning's  !

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:rofl: you're good. He's also got a Predator on QR, so behave yourself! ;)

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5 minutes ago, Mike said:

BTW - I recognise your avatar, but not your display name.  pardon my ignorance, but who are you?

 

Same person I am on several other modelling DG's.  And that I have been on here for a while.  Though I don't know from where else you'd recognize the avatar, since I'm the one who made it, and I'm only using it here.

 

13 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

^ I don't think this is the time to ask those questions.

 

Wait, what?  It's not the time to ask 'who did it?' when you're trying to figure out whodunit?

 

I just find it hard to believe someone would be *so* upset about a scale model discussion board that they'd risk going to prison.  If there's specific evidence that points somewhere, fair enough.  But if it's just 'we banned someone and they are mad', it seems like a pretty big jump from there to getting fingered for a felony.

 

Also, given the fact that the police haven't had time to come up with an actual culprit, it seems like pointing the finger at someone within the community is premature and potentially dangerous.  It could easily breed a sort of 'with us or against us' attitude that could prove divisive and cancerous to the modelling community as a whole.  "I saw someone Tweet a criticism of a build on Britmodeller... better call the cops!"  I'm just not a fan of 'if you see something, say something' as it invariably causes far more problems than it solves.

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1 minute ago, ICMF said:

Same person I am on several other modelling DG's.  And that I have been on here for a while.  Though I don't know from where else you'd recognize the avatar, since I'm the one who made it, and I'm only using it here.

 

That's what I meant - were you called something else before the upgrade?  I have a better visual memory than I do in all the other departments it seems :)

 

The rest I'll leave to John.  He's a lot more erudite than I am, and has been doing this for years.

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1 hour ago, Panzer Vor!!! said:

Ouch this sounds like its going to be expensive ,court ,cost , damages - what sort of figures john?

 

 

 

 

Sorry I missed this earlier as was busy - I am in court with a trial tomorrow and was doing final prep but the other side just surrendered tonight which now gives me an easy day.

 

I cant really say for English court costs as I am North of the Tweed but from my experience of cross border work people in England pay a lot more for court expenses than we do up here.  In fact from what I see I couldn't afford me in England.

 

Up here you are looking at around £15,000 for losing a damages claim and the same again for what you chaps call an Injunction - and thats at County Court level.  Step up to the High Court with our learned Counsel friends and their fees and say double that plus again.  More in England.  Then there can be the addition of the damages claim award.  

 

The person responsible for this nonsense had better think very long and hard about whether he wants to lose house, car and possibly job depending on what he/she does.  As I said - life changing.

 

The sensible thing if I was advising them is to come clean, apologise publicly and give a written undertaking not to do that again.  That removes much of the grounds of action and reduces any claim to an out of court figure of a couple of thousand and usually something is worked out.  I've just told clients in another action thats what I'd do if I was representing the defendants.  We have just taken three injunctions in three courts to stop bad mouthing in a commercial environment and once you have the evidence its as easy as falling off a log.  The defendants in that case are looking at around £7000 so far and all we have done is investigate, collect evidence, the service of a summons and first hearing before a judge.   Courts don't like people doing things that are unlawful.  Astonishing how many people dont get that until the summons arrives !

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If the people responsible are from the modelling community, I say name and shame them, when it's legally possible to do so!

 

No,that's not right, name and shame them, regardless of who they are....

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So sorry to see all this and I really hope you get it all sorted out. This is such a brilliant site!

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I have no idea about the legal side of things and even less about the technical computery side of things, but I can tell you now with complete confidence that if this has been the work of a disgruntled modeller then he needs to sit down and have a good word with himself for being a right sad b******.

Poisoning dogs at Crufts is worse but how much of a petty minded loser would you have to be to get so wound up over plastic models.

Edited by old thumper

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I'm not so active on the site, but I really enjoy it! It's a great opened window to many people common passion, because we're not talking about words and pictures, we are talking about passion, something which the actual world is missing a lot, in to many things.... 

 

A big hug to the staff for their fight!

Cheers

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11 hours ago, old thumper said:

how much of a petty minded loser would you have to be to get so wound up over plastic models.

 

Quoted for truth.  Britmodeller and I have only ever wanted to get on with our own lives without impediment from small-minded people with a grudge for some perceived slight many years ago. We're not interested in strife, we don't enjoy conflict, and we certainly don't like this pathetic point-scoring that some people seem to enjoy engaging in.  Leave us to do our thing.  That's all we ask :shrug:

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You can't name and shame anymore for fear of being sued yourself.

 

I can think of a couple of ex-members who are still upset enough to buy a DDoS attack on the site, they aren't that expensive and the PERCEIVED risk to oneself appears to be minimal. There are Russian botnets for hire for this type of thing, so (sadly) its not difficult to arrange, its making sure you are untraceable, thats the tricky bit.

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Hence my previous comment. Get the ducks in line first, plenty of time to name names when the net has closed.

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1 hour ago, Kallisti said:

You can't name and shame anymore for fear of being sued yourself.

 

I can think of a couple of ex-members who are still upset enough to buy a DDoS attack on the site

 

This is without doubt one of the friendliest social sites on the net. I  can't imagine (and don't particularly  want to know) what could have got anyone that upset here. If the above is true, the said ex-members must have serious problems dealing with people they meet in the real world (or maybe the problem is they never get out into the real world ).

 

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well, given that modellers can be a wee bit obsessive (wot me?)  ex-members can get a bit over the top, a couple of years ago someone did a Facebook spoof "Quitmodeller"  which had some funny moments, but on further reading revealed someone with an obsessive grudge,  they had spent a lot of time  and effort doing this, as it was insanely detailed and had page after page of vituperative snipes at the site, mods and members, with a mocked up version of the Britmodeller logo and dozens of quotes  that were  then pilloried.

 

I'm not saying this person has anything to do with the DDOS attack,  just mentioning that here was someone who felt so slighted that they actually bothered to spend time doing this.

 

'Nowt as strange as folk'  as they say.

 

PS - I was curious if any of "Quitmodeller" was still up,  and found "Brexitmodeller"

 

for anyone curious as to why someone would launch an attack here,  this is how slighted an ex-member still is

https://m.facebook.com/brexitmodeller/posts/1708595686072329

 

Again, no implication that this is connected to the current problems, though I note a mention of Invision V4 forum software...

 

this had made me feel so much better about myself.... imagine being this bitter

Edited by Troy Smith
to show how sad some people are...

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1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

for anyone curious as to why someone would launch an attack here,  this is how slighted an ex-member still is

https://m.facebook.com/brexitmodeller/posts/1708595686072329

 

 

 

'Stasi-esque megalomaniacs' ?

 

'Jack booted culture' ?

 

Blimey. What have I missed? Whenever I'm here it's just a lot of inconsequential banter about bits of plastic and paint colours.

 

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