mattWW21 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Hi folks, I'm a recent new member of to Bit Modeller and am still discovering all the 'bits and pieces' this wonderful web site (is that the correct name?) has to offer. I especially like the build review articles. Regarding vacformed kits: Some say it's the ultimate in modelling! And of course it's very time consuming compared to your standard styrene kit issue. I've never built one, but have bought one, Rare Planes 1/72 scale Ventura for US$8, with the intention of doing so in the near future. I searched the BM site hoping to find a SIG (Special Interest Group) who specialize in vac-formed kits but no luck. I would find it surprising if no such group exists as there seems to be a SIG for just about anything else these days! Perhaps it's there somewhere but my computer wiz search skills (what skills, you may ask!!?) have let me down. So please, could one of you kindhearted guys/gals advise me IF such a group exists, and info on how to access the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Bunker Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 As far as I'm aware there is no Vac-form SIG (though there appears to be a SIG for everything else you can think of) so why don't you start one? Perhaps if you asked Mike he might make room on his new improved forum for a section on vac-forms? I believe there was an article in Issue 1 Volume 1 of Scale Aircraft Modelling on building the Rareplanes Ventura. Also John Adams produced a great document on how to build vac-forms. I used to have a copy but it has been lost when I changed computers. Good luck with your build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Cornes Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 John Adams pops up on this forum from time to time . His non de geur is John Aero if you wanted to PM directly as I'm sure he would offer some advice. To be fair to John, he is a very busy chap so he might not reply straight away but be patient, it would be worth it. I think the thing about vacforms is to clearly mark the line between airframe and , cut away the majority of the waste then sand down with coarse wet and dry placed flat on a surface (next to the sink in my case, for clearing up and water access purposes). Be very aware that it is very ease to remove to much plastic because the vacforming process causes any vertical, or near vertical, bits to be pulled quite thin as the air is sucked out. The manufacturer should ensure that they use thick enough sheet to allow for this of course but take your time and check the part you are sanding so you can see where to focus your effort. Then you need to jin things like fuselage halves with tabs attached to each half to produce strong joins. I would also suggest cutting out cockpit and nose glazing first because you can use the finished components as a width guide when sanding down the fuselage halves - after all, you can't make a canopy narrower if you've made the fuselage to narrow! John Adams company, Aero club, was largely built on the need for after market items like guns, propellers, engines, etc - things that the vacform process does not do well. Hope this helps a bit Simon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Here's a link to John Adams 'how to' on vacforms note his method of cutting parts out, sticky pads and tee-al sanders makes it very easy. also worth getting is a gooseneck scraper see there was a vacform group build a few years ago http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/233-vacform-group-build/ which may provide some useful tips as well. HTH T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaggy Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 A good vac kit is strangely fun... Even more so these days with resin and etch to add detail far more easily. Dan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I love vacforms, and have a couple under my belt over the years (they must be getting squashed by now), and I just wish there were more new ones being released. Resin is a great medium for fine detail, but in large parts such as fuselages it gets heavy, and its susceptibility to heat over time makes wings a scary prospect, so vacform is my preferred method for short-run kits, at least for the large parts. What I wouldn't give for a company like Dynavector to pop up but using resin for the small parts, and bring all those weird & wonderful kits that stand little chance of being done in plastic to the market 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I've built a couple of vacforms. The first attempt is still sitting next to all current builds just to keep reminding myself to finish it. The other two turned out (in my opinion) reasonably good. What killed the first was a lack of understanding of the sanding process and plastic flexing. It will need some major P38 filler to get it back to a fuselage shape but I do intend to attempt this at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Ah, the old banana fuselage or flat wing profile problem! Fortunately for me, I read John Adams' guide before I started my Wyvern, but I still haven't finished it either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Bill Koster (of Koster Aero Enterprises fame) gave me a tip for dealing with vacuform kits. Spray the plastic sheet one overall color (I prefer primer Gray). When you separate the part from the backing sheet you'll see the part in primer and the extraneous plastic will show up as white. Sand the material back until all you've got is the primer showing and the part should be good. However you still need to test fit to make sure you don't sand away too much plastic. It's easier (much) to take away plastic than to add plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) On 18/09/2016 at 11:33 PM, Mike said: Ah, the old banana fuselage or flat wing profile problem! Fortunately for me, I read John Adams' guide before I started my Wyvern, but I still haven't finished it either! Yeah Mike, something like that. I read John Adam's guide too, just goes to show how I can seriously mess something up even with expert advice! Edited September 19, 2016 by Murdo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Seen that sort of thing before. I don't trust myself to flat-sand, so I get a big masculine sanding stick and attack it with that until I hit the line. Scrape the trailing edges with a knife blade til they're thin, and then add a few tabs to align things where you can. I get a real buzz out of the building stage of a vacform, although the scraping does get tedious after a while, and my stupid hands start to cramp up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 It was my first vacform and as you say, I flat sanded. I think most vacs need some kind of glued support along their length before sanding commences. I'll use the canopy as the measure to try and get the fuselage shape back but I think it's going to take a bit of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaggy Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 8 hours ago, Murdo said: Yeah Mike, something like that. I read John Adam's guide too, just goes to show how I can seriously mess something up even with expert advice! Ye gods man! How'd you manage to accomplish that? Kept on sanding WELL after the backing sheet was free? Wow.... Tongue in cheek here, you deserve some sort of reward for that effort! Now I want to see pics of the step by step rescue of that! SOOOOOOO Many Thin Wedges of white plastic - but at least the backing sheet will be able to provide most of that plastic - then some unabashed use of filler? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I used power tools instead of flat sanding as shown here: There is also a proposal for another non-injected GB that includes vacforms for the next year GB vote http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234988035-non-injection-moulded-ii-gb-“return-of-the-blob”/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 14 hours ago, Zaggy said: Ye gods man! How'd you manage to accomplish that? Kept on sanding WELL after the backing sheet was free? Wow.... Tongue in cheek here, you deserve some sort of reward for that effort! Now I want to see pics of the step by step rescue of that! SOOOOOOO Many Thin Wedges of white plastic - but at least the backing sheet will be able to provide most of that plastic - then some unabashed use of filler? Dan Well, to be honest, I didn't think I'd sanded it that much. I got a real shock when I put the fuselage halves together. The next two turned out a bit better: This: Produced this: And this: Produced this: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Alpha Yankee Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 We are also forgetting one of our other vacform masters here @tomprobert, he does some great work with vacs including his current 1/32 Shackleton based on a Lancaster Vac.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Yeah, Tom's builds are a whole new genre of art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 On 19/09/2016 at 0:25 AM, Troy Smith said: Here's a link to John Adams 'how to' on vacforms note his method of cutting parts out, sticky pads and tee-al sanders makes it very easy. also worth getting is a gooseneck scraper see there was a vacform group build a few years ago http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/233-vacform-group-build/ which may provide some useful tips as well. HTH T Hello! I've been trying to click on the link to the group build above, but it says the item can't be found Does anyone else get that? I would love to have a look. I'm fond of vac forms, the Broplan chap makes some nice ones All best regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Alpha Yankee Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Looks like that one may have been archived Tony. There was a Non-Injection GB last year with some nice vac builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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