RAF Recovery Set

[PlasticSoldier]

Hi,

Ok, so basically I have a load of questions to ask about RAF recovery in the Second World War, and other RAF vehicles, because I'm doing the RAF recovery set.

Am I right in thinking that in the 1940, RAF vehicles were a blueish grey, and it was changed to khaki and black pattern in 1943?

If so, was it the same for the recovery vehicles?

Was the khaki RAF combat dress issued in 1943 with the beret, and if it was, should I paint my recovery vehicle drivers like that because they have berets, or should I replace them with drivers with forage caps?

Can somebody please direct me to a website where I can buy plenty of RAF drivers with forage caps at a reasonable price

Are there any other WW2 RAF vehicle patterns that I haven't mentioned above?

If anyone can give me any useful sources as well as answers, that would be great.

Many thanks,

PlasticSoldier

[Graham Boak]

I've just lost a long reply: swear. Basically, go the the MAFVA site and look for Mike Starmer's work on British Army colours. http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/Starmer%20camo.htm From 1940 RAF vehicles followed the then-current Army rules and Army paints. Mike also has a series of booklets, the one for the UK 1939-45 will prove very helpful for the colours and the patterns.

For 1943 the likeliest will have been chocolate brown SCC2 with a dark grey Nobel's Tarmac on top. earlier colours may wll have still been in use. Recovery vehicles used the same schemes as the others. From the thread on this board, they would not have had berets. Try the RAF Ground Crew Set for alternatives - or look through sites such as Milicast, Matador Models, MMA Models, SHQ, and Plastic Model Soldier.

[dogsbody]

Would older vehicles have been re-painted or just left in the original colour?

Chris

[Teuchter]

I have a print of the ground crew at Ludford Magna c. winter 1943 and they are all wearing forage caps, apart from someone in the background, standing on the Coles crane, with a peaked cap and the WRAFs with their own headgear. It's interesting that they mostly seem to be in collar and ties as well, with various dustcoats, overalls, tunics, etc.

[Steve27752]

Army BD with KD trousers or shorts and side cap and not beret.

[Graham Boak]

Would older vehicles have been re-painted or just left in the original colour?

Chris

Under normal Army rules vehicles were not to be repainted until the normal process of wear and tear made it necessary. However, I don't think that this would apply to the RAF vehicles in the prewar bluegrey, for surely they would have been camouflaged PDQ when any real shooting started, if not before. Plus there is the "we're the smartest unit so want the latest paint" which probably wouldn't apply to RAF airfield vehicles, as opposed to the Guards Armoured Division, for one example.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Graham Boak

[DavidJ]

There is a DVD of a 1944 documentary "Night Bombers" featuring Lancasters of 150 Squadron at RAF Hemsley and it is apparently the only surviving colour footage of Lancasters in action. Lots of RAF vehicles are featured, including several Thorneycroft Amazons with Coles Cranes. All vehicles appear to be in the SCC15 Olive Drab with black Mickey Mouse disruptive camouflage. The Coles Cranes are painted yellow on the top of the jib and the David Brown tractors have yellow bonnet covers. As the order changing from SCC2 Brown to SCC15 was issued in April 1944, the Hemsley vehicles must have been re-painted very promptly.

However, you have plenty of camouflage schemes to choose from, as reference to Mike Starmer's work will show.

Dan Taylor has a set of replacement heads with forage caps that could be used to convert the kit figures to more RAF-looking fellows:

http://www.dantaylormodelworks.com/forage-caps-192-p.asp

You may be aware that the Bedford OX in the recovery set is undersized (approx 1/87 scale). If that's an issue for you, there are alternatives from MMS Models and Oxford diecast.

Cheers

David

[Mike Starmer]

Graham is correct with the colours, but to clarify. The earliest AMO I have regarding colours was in early 1940 that required a basic colour of Khaki Green 3 with Light Green 4 or Dark Tarmac as stripes. However disruptive painting had been ordered just before hostilities commenced so there is a evidently a missing AMO or this is a severe case of catch up. In 1942 the basic colour became SCC.2 brown with the familiar 'Mickey Mouse' type patterning in SCC1A or SCC.14 black. 'MM' was not a official pattern, but merely a simple method of applying a particular scheme set out in MTP.46/4A. In general this scheme was followed as may be seen in the mentioned film. It wasn't until late 1944 that yellow was allowed on any upper surfaces so be careful when planning a model for particular periods. Longevity of a particular colour or scheme depends greatly on usage. RAF vehicles were not subject to the rough treatment and active service that army vehicles were so the existing colours generally remained for far longer than army. There is a colour photograph of a David Brown tractor on an FAA base in 1943 still in Blue Grey. SCC.15 commenced early 1944, I think that the aforementioned film was late that year or 1945. One point, fire appliances were camouflaged like all vehicles, not red until after the war.

[Ripaman]

Hi Mike,

I have read your MAFVA on British Vehicle Camouflage and see that you wrote 1944-45 the final colour changed to S.C.C.15 but I am not sure this was for Matador with coles crane, I have attached a picture of one with 440 squadron RCAF at Air strip B9/ Lantheuil, Normandy on 1st Aug 1944.

 

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I painted my Coles Crane the Olive Drab colour because it was 1944, but since read that these Trucks with Coles Crane were still in there colour of S.C.C.2 and would not have been revised before going over, so I have change the colour using your Humbrol colour mix  98, 5 parts and 29, 4 parts, can you tell me if the colour I have painted is correct? I do not see from the picture that this Matador was camouflaged.

 

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Any help would really be appreciated.

 

Regards

Richard 

[Graham Boak]

Not Mike (I'd typed this before realising it was specifically addressed to him).  The official requirement was that vehicles should not be repainted unless such repainting was necessary because of normal servicing rotations or significant damage/wear.  So it would be entirely normal for such a vehicle to still be in SCC2.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Graham Boak

[bull-nut]

Also not Mike, but it looks like a good match for the Humber I painted with his Tamiya mix for SCC2. Pics in the RFI thread.

[Ripaman]

Thanks very much Graham and Bull-Nut for letting me know colour looks right, do have the Tamiya mixture but did not use it,

 

One last question what would the interior of the Matador be, I am thinking it might be a dark grey??

 

Thanks again

Richard

[bull-nut]

Usually the base body colour, so SCC2. Though you could go with the previous colour, khaki green no3, for some contrast.

[Mancunian airman]

Richard

Its the first time I have seen the SCC 2 mixed so If it is correct then it must be right.

I personally thought of it as being a little lighter in colour, probably due to exposure to sunlight and the vehicle 'living' outdoors in all weathers.

I have seen in the AEC tanker interior in what appears to be cream ?. 

I shall see if I can find the photo that was seen in a book so image may be a link.

 

Ian

[Ripaman]

Thanks Bull-Nut and Ian, I have not found any picture of inside yet, will wait to see what you come up with.

 

Regards

Richard