Spitfire Mk IXc JE-J question

[Bruce Archer]

On 9/19/2016 at 10:44 PM, Procopius said:

 

Forgive my boldness, but can you cite a source on the latter claim? I've never heard that to be the case, and in any event, the picture is of EN398 when Ian Keltie flew her.

According to Robert Bracken, who had several images of EN398 in his procession, said EN398 had the large bulges. And since Ian Keltie flew EN398 BEFORE JEJ it had the large bulges. Could they have been changed at some time in the life of EN398? Who knows. The only Imafges I know of show the large ones.

 

Bruce

[Procopius]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Archer said:

According to Robert Bracken, who had several images of EN398 in his procession, said EN398 had the large bulges. And since Ian Keltie flew EN398 BEFORE JEJ it had the large bulges. Could they have been changed at some time in the life of EN398? Who knows. The only Imafges I know of show the large ones.

 

Bruce

 

Oh, I wasn't questioning that part of it -- I was questioning the removal of two machineguns.

[Procopius]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Archer said:

According to Robert Bracken, who had several images of EN398 in his procession, said EN398 had the large bulges. And since Ian Keltie flew EN398 BEFORE JEJ it had the large bulges. Could they have been changed at some time in the life of EN398? Who knows. The only Imafges I know of show the large ones.

 

Bruce

 

Oh, I wasn't questioning that part of it -- I was questioning the removal of two machineguns.

[Navy Bird]

But was the maple leaf red or green?   

 

Sorry, I'll get me coat...    

 

Cheers,

Bill

[noelh]

59 minutes ago, Navy Bird said:

But was the maple leaf red or green?   

 

Sorry, I'll get me coat...    

 

Cheers,

Bill

Leave your coat Johnny said green, good enough for me. Anyway I'm making Keltie's version, broad bulges and red maple leaf|

 

[Navy Bird]

1 hour ago, noelh said:

Leave your coat Johnny said green, good enough for me. Anyway I'm making Keltie's version, broad bulges and red maple leaf|

 

 

I believe Johnny too. But did Keltie ever say it was red? We all tend to think of today's Canadian flag and see a red maple leaf, but that wasn't adopted until 1965. During the war, the Canadian flag was the Red Ensign, which actually incorporates green maple leaves in part of its design. So could it have been green for Keltie too? I'm planning on doing Tamiya's 1:32 Spit IX as Keltie's aircraft and I'm quite curious about this. I think there are already several threads about this - I probably shouldn't be bringing it up again! 

 

Cheers,

Bill

[gingerbob]

On 9/22/2016 at 3:20 PM, Scott Hemsley said:

To illustrate how the configuration of a Spit's wing was so easily changed, I quote from an email from Robert Bracken... And I quote "Bert said he liked his clipped wing Spitfire so much, that he had his Spits in 417 so modified - a brief job for the ground crew."

 

The only catch is that in the case of the F.VIII, "clipping" the wing could refer to replacing the extended tip with a standard "full span" tip.

 

bob

[Flyboy72nd]

10 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

I believe Johnny too. But did Keltie ever say it was red? We all tend to think of today's Canadian flag and see a red maple leaf, but that wasn't adopted until 1965. During the war, the Canadian flag was the Red Ensign, which actually incorporates green maple leaves in part of its design. So could it have been green for Keltie too? I'm planning on doing Tamiya's 1:32 Spit IX as Keltie's aircraft and I'm quite curious about this. I think there are already several threads about this - I probably shouldn't be bringing it up again! 

 

Cheers,

Bill

I would suggest you go to IPMS Canada's website, IIRC there is a discussion or article on the small maple leaf roundels.

Cheers

 

[Navy Bird]

16 minutes ago, Flyboy72nd said:

I would suggest you go to IPMS Canada's website, IIRC there is a discussion or article on the small maple leaf roundels.

Cheers

 

 

Thanks, I'll do that.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Scott Hemsley]

I would tend to agree with you Bob, but in Bert's case, Bracken implied that Bert meant 'clipped'.   From my emails with Bracken and from Bert's story in Bracken's book, it's my understanding that Bert's "other Spitfires" were all earlier marks.  It wasn't until the squadron was equipped with Mk.VIII's in 1943 that he even flew a Spitfire with the extended tips.

 

To quote (S/L) Bert Houle - via Robert Bracken's book: "MY favourite fighter was the Spitfire VIII with clipped wings.  It had power and good armament.  It could roll quickly and out-turn any enemy fighter we encountered."

 

 

Scott

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Scott Hemsley

[NellyV]

On 17/09/2016 at 14:25, Steve in Ottawa said:

Interesting that the 20 mm and inboard 0.303" MG have light-coloured seals (vice red) over the muzzle areas, while the outboard 0.303" seems to have ...nothing(?) to indicate either the red area or the light colour area of the inboard Browning.

I realise I'm jumping in here rather late in the day but I agree there doesn't appear to be any red tape where the outer 303 Browning should be. The inner 303 position is clearly taped over and the tape appears to have been fired through. However, the outer port appears to have been permanently faired over. I remember reading somewhere in the dim and distant past when researching my Tamiya 1/32 EN398 build that it wasn't unusual for the outer Brownings to be removed on C wing Spits. The wings flexed under G loading and this made it virtually impossible to harmonise the outer guns well. It was pointed out that any loss of firepower was more than compensated for by the explosive power of the Hispano Cannons.

So for what it is worth I built my JEJ EN398 a few years back with the outer gun ports faired over, R3002 Mk II IFF unit fitted (Cheesecutter wires), external generator electrical connector on the lower port chin cowl, gun camera port in starboard wing root (early Merlin 63 powered IXs ( had a fuel cooler in the port wing root. Form 78 clearly states a Merlin 63 was fitted), wide cannon blisters and a camouflage dark green Canadian Maple leaf. If anyone can definitively prove it was red, I'll repaint it 🙂

[ClaudioN]

From the recent 'Boston Intruder' thread, here is a note by Carl Vincent. I wonder whether this description applies to all 'maple leaf' emblems seen on RCAF aircraft, including JE-J.

 

 

The overseas roundel seen in Photo 3 is light blue with a dark blue outer ring and a red black-veined maple leaf in the centre. I am fortunate enough to have an actual example of one of these. They were supplied and applied in decal form.

 

Carl