CrazyCrank Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 19 minutes ago, Mpfiend said: Thierry, great detective work and very informative. Thanks for sharing. For straightening copper wire I roll it between two steel rulers, gradually working along the length of the wire until the desired length is achieved. Regards Keith. Exactly as I do, but between two pliers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 That is one heaven of a discovery Thierry, absolutely wonderful. Now it finally makes sense, and the Pocher turned out to not be as unreliable as we thought. To straighten copper wire I use a modeling hand roller. Difficult to explain, I just made this (clumsy) video. Is there a reason for me to visit the museum now? For example, reference stuff, photos, ? Or is it not necessary anymore, in which case I'll inform them. Just sent them a reminder... Keep up the good work in this amazing thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 33 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said: Is there a reason for me to visit the museum now? For example, reference stuff, photos, ? Or is it not necessary anymore, in which case I'll inform them. Just sent them a reminder... Really Roy, I think I've found answer to my questions, and there is fairly enough arguments now to build the fuel gauge system according with this schema. So, I think it is not necessary anymore to visit the museum... However, i would have appreciated to understand what is the system I showed you by PM above the tank, if it ever exist on this car....But this can wait now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 On 11/17/2016 at 2:08 AM, CrazyCrank said: However, i would have appreciated to understand what is the system I showed you by PM above the tank, if it ever exist on this car....But this can wait now Do you mean this? And are you also still interested in knowing more about that electronic device mounted on the firewall situated to the left of the pedals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said: Do you mean this? And are you also still interested in knowing more about that electronic device mounted on the firewall situated to the left of the pedals? No Roy, this: [ And yes for the electrical device of the firewal...however I've already an idea: it is possible it would be the car's horn "button".....crazy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Thierry, I have this update for you. - Louwman museum did actually remove the back seat of their priceless Bugatti (!) and inspect the top of the gas tank. They did not find any gauge there. They have made some photos of the car's inner structure that I will send to you per PM. Louwman kindly requests to not share these photos further, something I fully understand, agree with and respect. I am very glad they went into all of this trouble. They didn't do this themselves but asked their technician (located in another city) to do it. - I will send you the photos. - This Sunday I am invited to visit the museum, hoping that I can make some interesting photos for you and that I can find an answer to your question on the electonic device next to the pedals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said: Thierry, I have this update for you. - Louwman museum did actually remove the back seat of their priceless Bugatti (!) and inspect the top of the gas tank. They did not find any gauge there. They have made some photos of the car's inner structure that I will send to you per PM. Louwman kindly requests to not share these photos further, something I fully understand, agree with and respect. I am very glad they went into all of this trouble. They didn't do this themselves but asked their technician (located in another city) to do it. - I will send you the photos. - This Sunday I am invited to visit the museum, hoping that I can make some interesting photos for you and that I can find an answer to your question on the electonic device next to the pedals. Great news, and I thank you very much, Roy, you're a very nice and cool friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 Some progress today Braking system achieved and, I can say it now, this build was an appalling nightmare I'm waiting for some pictures of the T50 Bugatti of the Lowman Museum in La Haye, hope they will not force me to rebuild all this complex system As planed, the braking system isn't working, due to cable and drum lever/springs laxity (As said to me Codger, these Pocher parts are crap - to be polite, I mean "de la gnognotte" in french). But cable are very realistic, chains move slightly, gears turn, the handbrake lever work in its ratchet as well as the real one...illusion is quite perfect , and I'm quite happy with that. ! Some pictures: Stay tuned if you like and thanks for watching 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Utterly amazing. I have to admit than 'when' I get around to mine, it will be more 'OOB' than this although I will add a lot of extra's. Nothing like this though. A real joy to watch what you are doing. Roy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 1 hour ago, roymattblack said: Utterly amazing. I have to admit than 'when' I get around to mine, it will be more 'OOB' than this although I will add a lot of extra's. Nothing like this though. A real joy to watch what you are doing. Roy. Thank you for your kind comment, Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) Dry test with the carpetted floor, non-slip alu matt, and pedals (not coated yet), to have an idea of the finish... [/url Edited November 20, 2016 by CrazyCrank 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 2 hours ago, CrazyCrank said: I'm waiting for some pictures of the T50 Bugatti of the Lowman Museum in La Haye, hope they will not force me to rebuild all this complex system Can't say about the details, but overall your work so far has a striking resemblance of what I saw today. 1,2 gigabytes of photos and videos are currently being uploaded. I'll send you the link as soon as it is ready. One difference is that the 50T in the museum doesn't have the grille plating the Pocher has. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 Great new Roy, for the resemblance ......and thousand thanks for the photos and videos The grill plating is, in my opinion, a fake, a total fabrication of Pocher, for this model car "Coupé de Ville" Indeed, 65 Bugatti T50 were manufactured... I've reviewed the photos of 35 of them Only one has this grille plating and this is the chassis 50133, coachbuilt in Roadster by Van Vooren; it was later bought by Colonel Giles and imported into England. This colonel has renovated the car, and has it changed by the coachbuilder Corsica of London, in a sporty roadster, with chassis number 40144 You can see it on the picture below , that I found on the website Automobileweb.net Nothing in common with the Pocher T50 Bugatti "Coupé de Ville" And the only one of the 35 T50 we can see on this website, and that has been coachbuilt in "Coupé chauffeur", equally named "Coupé de Ville" , is this one: It was made by the coachbuilder Roland de Graffenried de Villars of Courbevoie,in France....Nothing in common too with Pocher model car... I've noticed that Pocher has picked some parts that interested and looked nice to its designers, coming from several T50 chassis, to invent a new car, that didn't ever exist, but looks however very realistic, and could have been manufactured, but was not ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I sent the link. I cannot show any of the photos in this thread as that was agreed upon between Louwman and myself. Thierry has agreed on not sharing the photos and videos further. If anyone else is building this kit and is interested in the photos, please contact me. Today I talked with enthusiastic and very knowledgable employees of the Louwman museum. Given the amount of info they had, and stories they had to tell, about this (seemingly random) one car only, I can only guess at the total level of knowledge and knowhow on all +-250 cars (plus many in storage). It is simply astounding. I was welcomed by the curator, Mr Kooijman, who led me to the car. The museum had opened 1 minute ago; I was keen on getting as much 'private time' as possible. As this Bugatti is at the end of the route, I was able to spend 1,5 hours alone with this car and a Bugatti Grand Prix car from 1929 (which I hadn't expected to be present here, but which helps in understanding the looks of the Fiat 806 we're doing extensive research about in another thread). Before the first visitors started entering the hall I had finished my work. Mr Kooijman asked me first if I liked to make some photos of the engine. Of course I humbly agreed and so he stood there holding up the right bonnet while I made photos and a video. Same with left view of the engine. Museum policy didn't allow for photography of the numbers of the car (chassis / engine etc.) which I respected naturally. After the engine came the interior. Yesterday I was in agreement with myself that I would not touch the car, but that was practically impossible. Mr Kooijman agreed to very carefully try pulling away the back seat and as that went very easily (Bugatti didn't fix it with fasteners; the back seat is gently but securely squeezed into position) we had a view to the rear compartment including gas tank. Holding my breath and being careful to not stress any of the precious materials I managed to take some photos of the (electric!) gauge. Next the interior. After the doors were closed I got to photograph and film the exterior including underside of the car. Two employees entered the hall and I asked them some remaining questions Thierry / I had about the car and they were happy to explain as far as they could. The device next to the pedals Like on Thierry's reference photos, Louwman's Bugatti also has this device. The employees' best guess was that this is the switch for dipped headlights, given the diameter and number of cables originating from it. Just now, reading back your e-mail, I noticed that you this was also your best guess. So that is most probably it. The fuel gauge On the fuel tank there is an electronic fuel gauge. The employees said that doesn't need to be original. In fact, many parts of many cars this old were improved as time went by. And IF it was original, that wouldn't mean that Bugatti couldn't have used another system on another car of the same type. So it's up to you to use the Pocher system or the system I photographed. I did not spot the T-piece (nivex) that you sent me a picture of. Logical, as it is either the electric part (gauge) of the mechanical part (nivex) on one individual car. Battery We have not been able to trace the battery. It's not under the bonnet and it is not in the back. It's not under the rear seat either, so most probably it rests under either front seat. We didn't dare pulling up the upholstery (there seems to be a possibility to take it off, see photo). But honestly this is the most logical place left. Pull lever near steering wheel The pull lever left to the steering wheel, as you showed me in your reference photo, doesn't exist on the Louwman car. I showed the employees and they estimate that it's 'aftermarket'. But they were not sure of it. I do hope I got all the photos you would have taken. Having made several walkarounds and being a modeler myself I tend to think I spotted and captured the most interesting details but I'm not building the car so I'm looking at it with more generally interested eyes than you would have. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) My dear Roy, I read your post and am unable to hold back my tears...tears of joy and emotion ... How gladly I would have gone with you to visit Lowman Museum, to admire "my precious" and get back "The Ring" Download has achieved, I've just taken a quick look at videos and photos, and seen details I didn't already knew, and many others that confirm my "interpretation" of this car... All that you provided to me is very informative and of an unimaginable richness ! I will remain indebted to you forever Edited November 20, 2016 by CrazyCrank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I am very glad to read that! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Well, as you were good boys today , a little improvement more on my Bug' Pedals have been coated with corrugated alu sheet to imitate a non-slip surface, as it is on the real car I wasn't perfectly happy with them, and I've given them a little weathering: Now, they are pretty good, and am thinking to do the same for the floor alu matt under the pedals With all the informations, photos and videos, brought from Lowman Museum by Roy vd M., I have now hundred time more work than I thought, only to achieve the chassis, modify engine housing and exhaust pipe etc... I must too scratch build the cables of rear shock absorbers, and for that, modify the damper plates.... And manufacture 2 batteries and their housing, what suppose to strongly modifiy the body floor....prospect of new challenges PS: I've forgotten the fuel gauge wiring Edited November 22, 2016 by CrazyCrank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) I asked the employees about both 'boxes' beneath the seats, visible from under the car. I wondered if there might be two batteries, but they thought it unlikely.... still, they were not sure of it. If you have somehow found out there are two batteries, then they are for sure below the seats and in the 'boxes'. I'm not sure what else there could be in there. But why the need for two batteries? One for cranking up the engine? (Edit: now that I'm taking a better look at the photos.... during photography of the underside I could barely see what I was photographing.... I see there is a VERY thick cable coming from under the left hand 'box' (IMG_1921)... ) Edited November 22, 2016 by Roy vd M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 11 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said: I asked the employees about both 'boxes' beneath the seats, visible from under the car. I wondered if there might be two batteries, but they thought it unlikely.... still, they were not sure of it. If you have somehow found out there are two batteries, then they are for sure below the seats and in the 'boxes'. I'm not sure what else there could be in there. But why the need for two batteries? One for cranking up the engine? (Edit: now that I'm taking a better look at the photos.... during photography of the underside I could barely see what I was photographing.... I see there is a VERY thick cable coming from under the left hand 'box' (IMG_1921)... ) Exactly, this is ONE battery, and on some other pictures, I believe there is a similar box, at the right hand, and I'm thinking it is a SECOND battery. I'm not sure, of course, but, on one reference photo of other T50 bugs, there is THIS on the right: it is clearly a battery housing, large enough to contain two batteries, as on the Royale Bugatti. So, I think possible that on the T50 Bugatti, there were two batteries, one for cranking up the engine, and other was a service battery, for all electrical devices. As on a livable sailing ship: one battery serves only for cranking up the engine, and the other is a service battery, that is used by electrical devices while sailing without the engine started. You must remind, that, on these cars, in 1932, there wasn't an alternator, but a dynamo, and this electrical apparatus wasn't very reliable nor powerful (132 W on a T57 Bugatti, that have only ONE battery) Furthermore, these batteries for old cars were most often 6V instead of 12V (generalized in cars since 1987) , so, not very powerful. So I wouldn't be surprised if there were 2 batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) I can't see it on the photos (of course I didn't capture everything.... ) but we were looking at it up close and I assure you there are two seemingly symmetrical boxes like the one you see on IMG_1921. They looked exactly alike. The one NOT on the photo is exactly like the one on your body-off reference photo. I even thought I had found 'the battery box' (right hand side) until I looked better and saw that it was on both sides. Eventually I only made a photo of the one on the left hand side. Let's say, also taking into account your reasoning, -and I am very careful in my estimates-, that there is a 95% chance there are two batteries and that they are situated below the seats. Edited November 22, 2016 by Roy vd M. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 So we agree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdesaxe Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 On the topic of two batteries, a situation from the 1950s might be the basis for an explanation. Austin Healey 3000 two-seater roadsters (Model BN7) used a 12-volt electrical system but were fitted with two 6-volt batteries in series behind the seats to provide the necessary 12 volts. Did these Bugattis use 12 volt or 6 volt systems? If the former, perhaps that's why they seem to have needed two batteries. Maurice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) On 22/11/2016 at 3:01 AM, mdesaxe said: On the topic of two batteries, a situation from the 1950s might be the basis for an explanation. Austin Healey 3000 two-seater roadsters (Model BN7) used a 12-volt electrical system but were fitted with two 6-volt batteries in series behind the seats to provide the necessary 12 volts. Did these Bugattis use 12 volt or 6 volt systems? If the former, perhaps that's why they seem to have needed two batteries. Maurice Thanks Maurice for your contribution. I don't know for the T50: despite af oll my extensive research, I've not be able to find any document as for now. However, I know for the T57, that was produced since 1934, so only two years after the T50: this car had a 12 V battery (6 elements) of 75 Amp. So It used a 12V system We can suppose, but not actually proof that it was the same for the T50, and keep on making pure speculations about the number of batteries and their voltage. About the number of batteries, these photos could inspire : Chassis 50112 And I've found in this book Bugatti Type 46 & 50 by Barrie Price, this picture with a mention: this is believed to be the first T50 chassis, where you can see two boxes on the right side This boxes are probably battery housings This picture match exactly with the advertising brochures of the Bugatti dealer of London for the Type 50 Chassis "Sports" (and Short: 3.10 meters) We know too that the Pocher T50 is in reality a T50T (T for Tourism) that was built on a long chassis (wheelbase 3.50 meters instead of 3.10 m on the standard T50), that was a true T46 chassis, with exactly the same dimensions (wheelbase, track, overall, ,body space and weight) And Bugatti type 46, also often named "Petite Royale" (Little Royale), had, as the T41 Royale, two batteries. Speculations, speculations.....WE DON'T KNOW...unfortunately Edited November 23, 2016 by CrazyCrank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 I've weathered a bit the alu floor matt under the pedals, and placed all parts for a dry fit: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) you should put some champagne stains on the carpet, why should Codger only have starlets as passengers !!! beautiful work by the way ... splendid !! Edited November 23, 2016 by sharknose156 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now