HMS Norfolk & Klipfontein

[ShipbuilderMN]

Which model do you like best, HMS Norfolk or passenger liner Klipfontein? What do you like most about your chosen model, and what don't you like about the other?

I prefer the Klipfontein, because she is a handsome looking passenger liner with a well-balanced accommodation, and attractive colour scheme, reminding me of many (generally) happy years at sea in similar ships. I was very pleased with HMS Norfolk, when I completed her, but I dislike the drab overall grey colour (however practical it might be), and although my experiences of naval service is very limited (a few months when my ship was requisitioned in 1982), it just seemed to be a constant round of drills and exercises for something that we all hoped would not happen. Interesting, of course, but hardly enjoyable!

My wife painted the seas in both models.

Bob

[Richard E]

Personally I think Klipfontein simply because it has more "character"

[Darby]

Both excellent builds but I'm biased towards top coat grey.

[keefr22]

Klipfontein, because it's far less common than warship models, as Richard says has more character and is far more colourful! I don't actually dislike Norfolk, she's another cracking build, but there's nothing really to distinquish it from many other similar models, usually built from kits - including those I can build! Klipfontein therefore also showcases your scratchbuilding abilities to a much greater degree.

Both fine models though Bob!

Keith

[Murdo]

Both are crackers but I especially like the Klipfontein.

Once again...

[philtn]

klipfontein is great, but I like the norfolk either! very nice builds

[Murdo]

Bob, is the Norfolk scratchbuilt too?

[ShipbuilderMN]

Thanks for replies. I really thought Norfolk would win hands down, but not a single vote so far! Yes, Norfolk is scratchbuilt. It was my first warship. I quite liked the result. I then built the battleship Dreadnought (1906). Then I returned to merchant ships.

Bob

[cngaero]

Sorry Bob, I can't choose between the two, as they're both stunning models in their own rite.

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Both are excellent but for me Norfolk wins. The merchant ships looks like...... any other merchant ship. HMS Norfolk is very rarely modelled, which is a shame because it's one of the most famous Royal Navy Cruisers. Warships will always be more interesting to me no matter what the subject is.

thanks

Mike

[whitestar12chris]

I prefer the Klipfontein, as its something different, to me more interesting. Both are great builds Bob.

All the best Chris

[12jaguar]

Both for me, both cracking models!, No-one has yet mentioned the fantasic seascape that your wife has painted. Well done her

John

[Air Hockey Propellers]

The Klipfontain is beautiful. However... the calm sea would have gone better with it, while the rough sea with the HMS Norfolk. It would make more sense to me. And since you did the sea too, you had the choice. The sea is also very, very well done.

Congratulations!

[ShipbuilderMN]

Thanks,

Neither seas are considered rough though. The Norfolk is kicking it up a bit by the high speed, whilst the Klipfontein is shown in a long swell that was often encountered off the Cape of Good Hope.

Bob

[Francis Macnaughton]

As for me it always has to have at least one gun onboard, Norfolk is my preference and I would love to be able to do the rigging and sea effect as well as you Bob!

Perhaps I would have chosen to have a Walrus on the catapult and done it in one of the camouflage schemes Norfolk carried in WW2 for added interest.

Is it the angle of the shot or should there have been a White Ensign somewhere?

[Seahawk]

Ships? What ships? It's those seascapes that I find amazing. Not that I am an expert on the varying types of swell.

[ShipbuilderMN]

Thanks,

There is no White Ensign. Flags don't last very long at sea, and in the MN they were only put up in port, or maybe when another company ship was approaching so they could dip as they passed. Even in my brief RN days, we didn't fly any flags at sea, but only when entering, leaving or in port.

As far as guns are concerned, I find them a pain in the neck when model building, and most of my models don't have any at all.

Here is Invincible on her way "south" in 1982 - Look - No Ensign!

Also HMS Ledbury, on her way "South" No ensign either!

Bob

Edited August 21, 2016 by ShipbuilderMN

[Francis Macnaughton]

Hi Bob

I only mentioned the ensign as it would have offered an additional bit of colour and therefore interest - a few months before those 1982 photos were taken I was the OOW of a Type 21 that entered Portland harbour with Not Under Command shapes still up from a machinery breakdown exercise and was reminded about it for a long time afterwards!! So I am the last to tell anyone what should be visible but I seem to remember the routine was warships at sea have an ensign of some sort up while there is daylight for it to be seen and someone else to see it and to avoid being caught out most ships would just leave one up all the time.

I think you'll find that if a high res version of those pictures was available you would find a small sea ensign flying from a foremast halyard - small, grubby and tattered perhaps but still there.

That said, finding something that provides a convincing representation at small scale can be tricky so leaving it out for a single ship is a useful option I hadn't thought of before.

Which ship was that you were in during 1982?

Francis

[ShipbuilderMN]

Francis,

I was in the small passenger liner RMS St. Helena, the centre ship of image below. The other two are HMS Ledbury and HMS Brecon. I took the picture from the helicopter. I do have high resolution images, but can't see any flags! Whilst we were in the Falklands, I was roped in as one of the OOW's, we had our three mates, myself (radio officer) and a Fleet Chief taking the anchor watches. I don't recollect ever telling anyone to hoist or lower flags at sunset or sunrise, but they (RN) may well have been doing it of their own accord, although that may be doubtful as everything had to come from the bridge and nowehere else! We carried our full set of MN officers and part crew, and our passenger cabins were filled with RN officers, POs and ratings. Most of the RN crowd loved it because they had good accommodation, 2, 3 or 4 per cabin, each with its own bathroom and a couple of stewardesses to look at. We escorted the two MCMVs down, RAS every three days, and after all the mine, bomb disposal and wreck location had been dealt with, we delivered them both safely back to Rosyth. We then went "South! again, running between Ascension, Stanley and South Georgia as a mini troopship, storeship. They finally released us after 13 months when we returned to Falmouth for a three-month refit, as we had had a terrible battering down there (From the weather, not the enemy!). We operated for a further 8 years on the UK - St. Helena - Cape Town passenger/carge mail service, before moving over to a new ship of the same name that is still in service today.

Bob

[ShipbuilderMN]

"Battered, but undefeated," RMS St. Helena, Falmouth, 1983.

Bob

[SUB-SAM]

I have to be honest and say it's impossible to vote which model I prefer because I cannot see enough detail in those photos, no offence to your photography skills there just isn't enough resolution to make an honest comparison.

For me what makes of breaks a model is when your eye / camera is right up close to the detail (an amazing model and a not so good model can look pretty much the same from a distance)

[ShipbuilderMN]

What you say is quite correct, but in my opinion, you are not supposed to look too closely at miniatures but view them as a whole. If you look too closely at real ships, (or anything else for that matter), they will look pretty imperfect close-up - (Like film stars and personalities without make-up ). The Norfolk sold for £600, whilst the Klipfontein only managed £345 (Auction). But the Norfolk was purhased by the son of someone who sailed in her during WWII, and that makes a difference! Close-ups of kits are generally far superior in appearance to scratchbuilt models because they are mainly produced by machines, and if assembled with care, often appear flawless. At auction, a number of my models that I have not thought amounted to very much have attracted astounding sums, whilst my better ones have often gone for next to nothing, on one occasion rendering me half a pence per hour profit for building time! Mostly, the general public cannot really distinguish between good, bad, or indifferent when it comes to ship models (or "boats" as they generally like to call them ). I have noticed that if I sell a model of a ship to someone who has sailed in it, they usually come out with such comments as "perfect in every detail," which, as you say, is seldom the case,

These are two of my favourites, one now owned by someone who sailed in her, the other by the grandson of the ship's bosun. When I took them to the local ship model club shortly after completion, neither of them raised so much as a casual glance, but their new owners looked like they had received a million pound premium bond win when they were handed over!

Bob

Edited August 22, 2016 by ShipbuilderMN

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I had a hard time chosing, but in the end Norfolk won it for me. The rigging on Norfolk is especially good.

[ShipbuilderMN]

Thanks,

The rigging is really the simplest part of a model for me. As I use fine wire, there are no knots to mess about with, it is all glued on in short lengths. Powered ships are the simplest to rig. A big sailings ship such as Donna Francisca (above) is also easy enough, but can become repetitive and tedious. Even so, I can rig a four-masted barque in a week.

Bob

[clipper]

Klipfontein, because it's far less common than warship models, as Richard says has more character and is far more colourful! I don't actually dislike Norfolk, she's another cracking build, but there's nothing really to distinquish it from many other similar models, usually built from kits - including those I can build! Klipfontein therefore also showcases your scratchbuilding abilities to a much greater degree.

Both fine models though Bob!

Keith

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