How many of you have Wingnut Wings kits in your stash? and Why if not

[lasermonkey]

No.

Price.

[Welkin]

If they scaled them down to 1:48 I would indulge - particularly if they started with a Felixstowe or a Ninak!

[jrlx]

On 21/09/2016 at 00:57, Beardie said:

Ah but the beauty of the Wingnut kit is the finished example of a WWI aircraft with minimal fuss plus the learning experience provided by the booklet which details not only where the bits should go but also what they are, giving you an insight into what instruments went where on a given aircraft, what different pieces of equipment are, rigging locations and what particular rigging lines did and it also contains plenty of pictures of the real aircraft including current replicas and surviving aircraft.

 

Therefore a relatively straightforward and beautiful build without needing to be a master modeller plus picking up information on just what all those interesting little bits did. I know that information is available and in much more detail in special publications on different aircraft but, if time is limited and you want to cover many different aircraft without spending a lifetime learning the ins and outs of each particular aircraft they are a 'total package'.

 

I have to say though that I don't kid myself that they will be all that easy. Just getting some of those delicate components off the sprue intact will be a challenge and painting them without ruining the detail will also be no mean feat. They really are quite incredible compared to any other kit I have ever handled.

 

I originally thought of them as being too big but, I realised that, if I stick to only WWI subjects in 1/32 scale then my existing display cabinets will hold at least several years worth of builds.

 

What I believe will be a real challenge is achieving a proper look for the wooden parts. I still have to try and paint a few 1/72 biplanes in order to achieve a realistic looking wood finish.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

[TonyTiger66]

It really would be wonderful if they would branch out into other scales.

 

Now all these posts have made me think;

 

"yep, I can sell some stuff I will never build, albeit for a pittance, on Evilbay, then buy a WnW treat"

 

I don't know how many other people this would apply to, but I could probably only do that twice, due to space restrictions.

 

I have far more room here in Oz (I'm British) than in the UK, but with kids etc, 1/32 demands some real thought space wise.

 

I have a 1/32 Corsair in the stash, that I really want to build into a RNZAF aircraft.

 

That will take a lot of room. 

 

So I'm limited to 1 to 2 WnW *after* selling unwanted gibber,  to afford them.

 

There is another solution.

 

Release them in 1/48, 72 and 144.

 

Really.

 

Look at Valom. He's not crazy; he's siezing 1/144 WWI right now.

 

I'd personally go for 1/72, maybe 1/48 at an (unpleasant) push.

 

For me as an old flatulent 1/72 gentleman scale modeller; 1/48 look to me, often, like bulky toys. 1/32 somehow belong in self made jewellers houses in the USA and 1/24 are the one off, pride of place 'Breguet watches' of the modelling world. 

 

I'm not taking myself seriously here. I'm willing to be surprised that I'm utterly on my own  

 

1/72?  

 

All the best

TonyT 

 

 

[jrlx]

Tony,

 

For 1/72 WWI stuff you could try the few examples issued by Eduard. I have a small selection and they look really good in the box. I still have to build them, though.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

 

[Bigglesof266]

I understand the love.

 

For me, zero. Four reasons.

 

1. Price. I was going to press the buy button on #1 when WNW decided to put their prices up 15% (in USD) coincident with our dollar having plummeted to rotten low relative to the USD. Double whammy. Great for Americans postage across the Pacific included, 'orrible for us in Australia given that we're only a hop over the duckpond. Whilst I was vacillating;

 

2. Desire, lack of. The models I fancied were either out of stock, or save one, the Pfalz D.IIIa, had just listed out of stock (then).

 

3. Need. I have a stash, humble by reckoning of some, but which I probably won't complete before my bucket list deadline as it is.

 

4. Scale and detail. WNW are indisputably gorgeous, best in the marketplace. But, 1/48 is my preferred single engine scale even for smaller WW I types, and Eduard's fidelity and Profikit or Special Edition detail in that scale at lower pricing satisfies me generally. e.g. Fokker D.VII (O.A.W.) "Sieben Schwaben" although now discontinued, probably being one of Eduards most expensive WW I subject Special Editions. Their regular Albatros D.II Profikit can be had for about AUD$27 inc buying as I do, so the price of one WNW buys a lot of Eduard, or Dragon as I'm interested in 1/35 armour as well. 

 

 

[Duncan B]

1/48 for WW1 subjects isn't too bad size wise. I've never seen an unbuilt WNW Kit, only the odd glimpse of a built up one at a show.

 

Duncan B

[Séan Pádraig]

None... unless they plan to make a D.H. Vampire T.11 in the near future I cannot see me getting any either

[andym]

Simply too expensive and not subjects that interest me. The only one I might consider is the late version Sopwith Snipe for a between the wars aircraft but by the time all the import duty, vat etc is added it's just too expensive to justify.

 

Andy

[Beardie]

Duncan you really need to have a look at an unbuilt kit. You can spend ages perusing all those lovely delicate little bits and the booklets can occupy quite a bit of study time also.

 

I don't know if 'expensive' is quite the word as, for what you get in the box, I would say the price is actually pretty reasonable. They may cost two or more times the RRP of an Eduard limited edition kit but they have more detail, more information and are quite a bit bigger, seems a pretty good deal to me, After making enquiries with Wingnut Wings and weighing up the probable costs of design, development and production I think they are actually bargain priced.

You can't really compare them at all to a standard Airfix, Roden or even Eduard kit for detail, research or quality. They are a triumph of design and molding precision. I have spent quite a bit of time studying the sprues in my 20 kits so far and there is absolutely zero flash and the moldings are clean and precise which, I have to say is something I have never seen in any other kits.

I think we are used to pretty low prices for our kits but you gets what you pays for.

As many reviewers have stated, for detail, ease of construction and visual effect of the finished model 1/32 is a great scale. Not too big as to overwhelm and not so small that you can't make out all that gorgeous detail.

[Brandy]

10 hours ago, jrlx said:

Tony,

 

For 1/72 WWI stuff you could try the few examples issued by Eduard. I have a small selection and they look really good in the box. I still have to build them, though.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime

 

 

Jaime , the Eduard, and Roden, kits are very good indeed in my opinion, but again, they leave little scope for actual modelling - everything is there!

 There is a huge amount of scope in 1:72 - I have over 140 different WWI types in my stash, counting vacform, injection, and resin. I hate to think how much space they could take up if I build them all...no chance of 1:32 here! I'll leave the big stuff to others.

 

Ian

[Beardie]

I must confess that only part of the reason behind my choosing to convert to the Church of Wingnuts is about the joy of modelmaking. My prime goal is to build a personal miniature museum of all the major World War One aircraft as quickly as possible and without spending a year plus on researching, refining, modifying, scratch building each model in order to achieve this and all in the same scale to make their relative dimensions easily visible while learning the basic control, instrument, weapon and rigging layout of the different machines.

 

Lifespans are finite and I don't have a long enough one ahead of me (even assuming that my eyesight won't decline beyond serviceable limits) to build everything I want to build to a standard I want unless someone helps me out (like Wingnut Wings have) by taking care of the research for me and making the kit as simple as possible to assemble while still being superbly detailed.

 

In the past couple of years I thought I could achieve this goal via Eduard and Roden 1/48 scale kits but I realised late last/.early this, year that that isn't going to happen. Eduard as much as told me themselves via email that their WWI kits are now a very small percentage of their business and I am guessing that that is only likely to decline even more in future so I doubt if we will even see the SE5a appear let alone any other new kits. As for Roden I never got on with a single kit I ever attempted from them with their soft soapy plastic and diabolical decals.

[Bigglesof266]

I get where you're coming from Beardie, and applaud it. It's only money after all if one has it to spare, and one can't take that with. I know that I've already discussed the aspect of a probable proportion of 'the stash' I'll leave behind with my wife, and she recognises that I derive joy from pawing over boxes and contents of my unbuilt stash with my imagination too. Given the comparative cost of alternative hobbies, plastics modelling really is still a cheap pursuit even if one was to buy the entire WNW aircraft catalogue over two or three years. So with a clear objective as you have, seems a pleasurable and smart means to achieve your goal to me. Eyesight and fingers is a dominant reason why I chose 1/48 upping from childhood's 1/72 for my WW II Bf 109s, Bf 110s and He 219 etc, so in a dedicated Great War collection of which WNW's is thorough, 1/32 makes even more sense. And their kits are drop dead gorgeous.

 

In the meanwhile, I've avoided temptation to stop buying plastic regardless in order to focus upon playing with and enjoying what I have, as I also do Railway Modelling and in both cases, already have in excess of what I need, and most of what I desire which interests me. I am surprised at my self-discipline so far since arriving at that policy, although gluttony has never appealed, so when I perceive I'm buying on "desire" rather than "a use for" as a trigger button it's pretty easy to say no. I'm pretty sure that seasonal Dragon armour bargains will tempt me from that hiatus if there's anything I've been lusting after, as the competitive pricing for the Christmas present spend catchment is as exceptional as most of their kits. If Dragon's 1036 Smart Kit '41 variant of "Scharnhorst" promos though, it's going to be difficult to deny my purse a little additional licence.

[Shane]

On 15/08/2016 at 11:10 PM, Beardie said:

Hi all just thought I would post a little poll in regard of Wingnut Wings kits to try and get a handle on just how many Britmodellers are interested in and collect the Wingnuts kits and the reasons if you haven't got any.

 

WW1 aircraft are by far my favourite subject and I've built hundreds over the last 40 years and still have a hundred or more kits.

 

I have NO Wingnut Wings kits, and although I can see how they might be interesting to others I'd not buy any of them regardless of subject even if I won the lottery. BIG models simply don't appeal to me at all, or rather large SCALE models don't. Purely for *me* modelling is about miniaturisation, and 1:32 just isn't.

 

Shane

[Antoine]

I have about nine of them.

Enough for the moment, I'll see when they'll decide to produce a French aircraft.

[Stashaholic Steve]

I currently have 21 (including 7 that are now OOP) but have not bought any more in over a year, and probably won't be buying many more now in view of how expensive they've become within a relatively short space of time. I wouldn't mind an LVG and/or a W.29 (two that I missed out on), but not badly enough to pay "collector" prices on eBay.

[Beardie]

Surprisingly, when they do show up on fleabay (in auction format) they don't tend to reach prices much in excess of the prices that the 'equivalent' kits are selling for on the Weta website. In reality I think there isn't enough demand for WWI kits to actually command top dollar unless you get a couple of people fighting to win a particular sought after kit.

As I said before, based on what I got from Wingnut Wings via email, the cold hard fact is that the prices they were selling them for in the past, with free postage, pretty much meant they were making a loss by selling them and the prices they are now is something probably not far in excess of a 'Break even' price.

I worked as a graphic designer in the print industry and I have to say that, in my estimation, just designing and producing the printed boxes, full colour booklets and decals the cost to the company is probably in the region of £20+ per kit assuming a production run of probably five thousand or less. That doesn't sound like many kits but is probably a realistic figure for how many of each kit they will actually sell. Add on cost of research and design, mold creation, production, quality control, and packing then I would be surprised if they even make a few dollars per kit sold or even break even. Without the price hike I reckon Wingnut Wings would have had there plug pulled as unsustainable and, if the support isn't there to keep the kits moving off the shelves at the higher prices I am guessing it won't be long before the plug is pulled or at the very least we won't see anything new in the future.

[Stashaholic Steve]

2 hours ago, Beardie said:

Without the price hike I reckon Wingnut Wings would have had there plug pulled as unsustainable and, if the support isn't there to keep the kits moving off the shelves at the higher prices I am guessing it won't be long before the plug is pulled or at the very least we won't see anything new in the future.

 

Given that WNW is basically just a rich man's indulgence, it probably doesn't need to do much more than cover costs and break even.

 

However, I actually suspect that the writing might already be on the wall. Not a single new kit release this year so far, not even anything new announced as being "in development". I wouldn't be surprised if at some point next year we get an announcement that WNW is being wound up. Sad yes (it's never nice to see a model company stop trading). But not surprised. Anecdotal and unscientific I know, but I've heard a number of guys say that they'll no longer be buying WNW kits due to the recent steep price rises, or will be buying far fewer than before.

[Beardie]

I agree that it doesn't look good. Unfortunately it also sends a message out to other companies that it ain't worth trying to make expensive high quality kits, particularly of World War One subjects and, when it does cease then we will be unlikely ever to see anything else of a similar standard as people are just not willing to pay what it costs to produce them. I for one am planning to dig deep in the hopes that it keeps the project going and results in more previously unseen models of WWI aircraft.

[Paul Thompson]

11 minutes ago, Stashaholic Steve said:

 

Not a single new kit release this year so far, not even anything new announced as being "in development". I wouldn't be surprised if at some point next year we get an announcement that WNW is being wound up. Sad yes (it's never nice to see a model company stop trading).

'Sopwith Camel' not ring a bell, then?

 

Paul.

[Stashaholic Steve]

Just now, Paul Thompson said:

'Sopwith Camel' not ring a bell, then?

 

Paul.

 

The Camel is not out yet Paul, and it's been in development since Adam was in short trousers. Okay perhaps not quite that long, but certainly 12 months plus. Like I said, nothing new this year so far - and we're only a week or so away from October.

[Stashaholic Steve]

12 minutes ago, Beardie said:

I agree that it doesn't look good. Unfortunately it also sends a message out to other companies that it ain't worth trying to make expensive high quality kits, particularly of World War One subjects and, when it does cease then we will be unlikely ever to see anything else of a similar standard as people are just not willing to pay what it costs to produce them.

 

I think there'll always be a demand for high-quality kits (WWI or otherwise), and "expensive" is a relative and subjective term.

 

I take the point about them possibly having been under-priced before. But psychology comes into it as well: If all of a sudden something seems like it's no longer such great value for money - particularly on the back of a steep price hike - a lot of guys are going to be more circumspect when it comes to parting with the folding. The more so if they're on limited modelling budgets.

[Paul Thompson]

13 minutes ago, Stashaholic Steve said:

 

The Camel is not out yet Paul, and it's been in development since Adam was in short trousers. Okay perhaps not quite that long, but certainly 12 months plus. Like I said, nothing new this year so far - and we're only a week or so away from October.

 

I know it isn't out, I just thought you weren't counting it as being touted in developement. They've talked about it at various shows in their neck of the woods this year. As a bit of context, the Camel development is as nothing compared to the Camel announcement from Eduard, or the same for their original SE5a  back before the Flood.

Paul.

[Beardie]

In my last email to the company they did assure me that the Camel is still scheduled for release, hopefully by the end of the year, and that they were working on other projects.

 

I think there is a gulf between the business side of things and the love for creating superb model kits. When the prices were low they possibly hoped that the product would take off bigger than it has and therefore justify making more of each kit and this has not come to pass. I recall, some years ago, reading that it was estimated that there were less than 2000 builders of WWI kits globally and I think this might well be not far off the mark making it a difficult market to make much of a profit in. I think that Wingnut Wings were hoping that, with a focus on ease of build and top class detail they might entice more people into the WWI fold and it does seem that they have to a certain extent but not enough to justify going all out with production and that is even considering that there are quite a few people out there with multiples of some of the most sought after Wingnut Kits.

 

If you look on the Wingnut Wings website you will see that it took much more time for each Wingnut Wings kit to sell out than it did for Airfix to run out of their first production run 1/48 Defiant or Meteor, those were months where the Wingnuts took years. WWI modellers are a minority methinks and we can't afford to look a gift horse in the mouth. How many millionaire WWI aviation enthusiasts are liable to turn up in the future to provide us with kits?

[Bigglesof266]

Beardie I think there was one option missing from your poll. Other than price now, elaborated upon below, the one I would have chosen before the price hike would be "Too limited a selection available for a prolonged period now. Subjects inciting interest to buy status are all currently annotated sold out".

 

Lamentably, having watched this status with WNW remain unchanged other than to worsen for about twelve months now, I think all indications are that your assessment of production being discontinued and virtual doors possibly closed once available stocks are near exhausted may prove correct.

 

On scale. Whilst personally too large for a WWII subject collection even of single engine fighters to suit my storage and display requirements, I think WNW choice of 1/32 is a perfect scale for WWI single seat scouts and two seaters given their generally diminuative relative size. e.g. Nieuport 17, Pfalz IIIa, and level of detail deliberately pursued. Bombers like the big Gotha might present a storage and display challenge, but methinks that other than for a very few, given their pricing they'd be a one off project for most tempted to go there.

 

I don't think altering scale would lift sales. Eduard already have that covered in 1/48 albeit not as comprehensively, and most interested in WWI subject folk don't have kids eyes or fingers any more for 1/72. Which leads me to the conclusion of the primary reasons such an excellent product was so slow moving.

 

Limited interest exacerbated by the price asked.

 

PRICE. As an online buyer of many years, I know online buyers hate paying postage, especially paying disproportionate or ridiculous shipping charges. But there's one thing they hate even more. Subsidising someone elses. Hattons (UK) have that formula right. Clearly WNW product is targeted at the US market in USD with shipping included. Thats just great for US buyers, but I freely admit it p1sses me off mightily for reasons expressed in a previous post. I sure wish I could get such cheap inclusive shipping from the US, who arguably have the most expensive shipping in the world IME whether through USPS, UPS Fedex or DHL. I'd have to say that that factor of a single price inc shipping all in USD with the 15% price increase was THE factor causing me to hit the no sale resentment button on trying out two or three WNW kits instead of the "they are pricey but" grudge buy button.

 

So instead, albeit limited to fewer and more popular WWI subjects, I stick with Eduard in 1/48 instead which please in every respect. And I can buy a Camel and Nieuport 17 now in Eduard, as I have. For the price of the WNW Pfalz IIIa or Albatros D.Va (O.A.W.) alone, the only D.V or D.Va choice still available, (sigh) I can buy four Eduard WWI scouts in Profipack with their similar number of decal choices and etch inclusion. The savings accomodate aftermarket resin replacement wheels and U/C struts for the Albatros too. OK we're aware the business is a hobby to PJ, but the sale currency loaded with worldwide postage in that currency can take a hike AFAIC. And for I buy from everwhere including Korea, Hong Kong, Russia, Lithuania, the USA and bucketloads out of the UK, although AU gets a very good look in for my plastic kit modelling purchases in recent years thanks to a superb source here.

 

LIMITED INTEREST AUDIENCE. Modellers are an ever thinning on the ground niche today, and boys no longer grow up inspired by tales of aerial battles between Camel and Pfalz in Biggles books. With The Great War for me as a boy just 45 years distant whose elderly and frequently visually apparent maimed veterans numbered among my living mustard gassed great uncle, recovered from wounds maternal grandfather, prosthetic limbed teachers and (deceased, died of wounds 1929) paternal grandfather during the formative impressionable years of my own childhood, that war held a relevance of imaginable reality now long disappeared along with those of whom I spoke for most adults and youth today. IME few adults under 40 today actually know or care anything of The Great War or would even recognise it by that name other than for five minutes of poppy wearing when a clamor is made to promote support of the recent ones. I suppose it's natural enough of the human condition. That war must seem as distant to them in 2016 as the U.S. Civil war or Franco-Prussian war did to me in the early 1960s. So I suppose what I'm saying is that WWI and its subjects are not omniprescient in the consciouness or of interest to other than a niche few as you accurately pointed out earlier.

 

Apols for the verbosity of my ramble. Too much spare time on my hands. 😅