71chally Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Superb results there, looks almost like one of those pre-release CAD shots! Titanine produced a lot of the paint used on British aircraft, flick through old 'Flights' and you can't escape from the name! Nice to see the intake shots from Crisp, looks like oxidised and worn natural metal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Great news on the medical front Bill, a good round thrashing never hurt anyone ! Sorry to be absent without a letter from matron but I've been away sampling the Scandanavian hospitality and fondling erotic/exotic Swedish heavy metal. I think a lot of naval types would attest to the low flying attributes of the old Bucc. I've chatted to several ex RN types who told me that they were looking down onto the upper wings from the deck as they hurtled by and according to my pal Teddy the cushion of air created at low level almost made crashing it a deliberate act, such was the buoyancy and stability of the thing at low level/high speed over the briny. Most importantly though you reached for the single malt instead of accidentally imbibing in that blended stuff, well caught sir, could have caused one hell of a kerfuffle ! The old thing certainly looks better with under cloths on, (the model not you !). As for the anti-flash white well yes the early Victors were coated in Titanine white and the Vulcans in Cellon white both just described as 'brilliant white'. Apparently Buccs and TSR 2 were painted in the Titanine product too. Difficult to say which hue would be correct, if you look at the TSR 2 at Cosford, (which I believe still carries the original paint) it has a warmer tone to it but that could well be down to the effects of aging and degradation over time...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 20 hours ago, Navy Bird said: May I ask where the hex values of f2f3f4 came from? In other words, is there a source that says the hex equivalent of Anti-Flash White is f2f3f4? That equates to R242 G243 B244 which is a very light grey, with just a touch of blue but probably not enough to be noticeable. Alternately, is there a BS number for Anti-Flash White? Hiya Bill. Apologies for the delayed reaction to this, it's been a mad couple of days at work.... As to the source of those hex values: I chased around many of those sites last night to find an exasperating circular logic in play. They all repeat variations on the same formulae, which may -or may not- be useful, however this no provenance as to the primary derivation of those numbers themselves - particularly a BS reference. There's been some discussion on this forum in the past I see, which reach general conclusions and note that the paint itself was apparently subject to colour changes in a short space of time due to weathering, eg, marty hopkirk's posting here: Perhaps this susceptibility to exposure to the elements gives you carte blanche >no pun intended!< to interpret the exact shade & tint of white to something you find personally satisfying? I notice though that this shot appears to show considerable staining on the undersides of the intakes: Image credit: Mark W http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?103717-The-Beautiful-Buccaneer Sorry not to be more helpful on the matter Bill, as its something that intrigues me and I'll continue to dig into. I'll leave you with this, the most beautiful photo of a Bucc I've seen, in that gorgeous low lighting angle Image credit: Rowland White https://mobile.twitter.com/RowlandWhite/status/580116554219700224 Tony 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 On 9/23/2016 at 07:00, Fritag said: I've no doubt at all that Bill's offering will be a masterpiece. I also think he should build the definitive 1/72 scale jaguar....... Thanks for the encouragement! The Jaguar is probably a good idea, especially since my brother, with a small amount of help from me, has finished the Aston Martin DB.6 restoration and now has a beautiful XKE convertible in the garage for his next project. I have the Revell/Italeri Jaguar kit - any good? On 9/23/2016 at 07:20, Ascoteer said: Holding at Binbrook there was a TACEVAL with an airfield attack by the Buccs. One of them came between the hangars below the height of the hangar roof. Ah, to have seen that! Wow! On 9/23/2016 at 11:50, general melchett said: Great news on the medical front Bill, a good round thrashing never hurt anyone ! Sorry to be absent without a letter from matron but I've been away sampling the Scandanavian hospitality and fondling erotic/exotic Swedish heavy metal. I think a lot of naval types would attest to the low flying attributes of the old Bucc. I've chatted to several ex RN types who told me that they were looking down onto the upper wings from the deck as they hurtled by and according to my pal Teddy the cushion of air created at low level almost made crashing it a deliberate act, such was the buoyancy and stability of the thing at low level/high speed over the briny. Most importantly though you reached for the single malt instead of accidentally imbibing in that blended stuff, well caught sir, could have caused one hell of a kerfuffle ! The old thing certainly looks better with under cloths on, (the model not you !). As for the anti-flash white well yes the early Victors were coated in Titanine white and the Vulcans in Cellon white both just described as 'brilliant white'. Apparently Buccs and TSR 2 were painted in the Titanine product too. Difficult to say which hue would be correct, if you look at the TSR 2 at Cosford, (which I believe still carries the original paint) it has a warmer tone to it but that could well be down to the effects of aging and degradation over time...... I don't know so much about Swedish heavy metal - I like some of the Scandinavian garage bands, though, like The Raveonettes, The Launderettes, etc. I've started looking around at photos of beasties painted in Anti-Flash White, and it is indeed true that there is a lot of latitude in painting this colour. The specific ship I'm modelling participated in the deck trials, and hence would have been fairly new I think. However, the photos do show some fluid leaks and weathering to the upper surfaces. I think I can reproduce that. Funny you should mention the TSR.2 as my plan calls for that to be my next project (unless Fritag's Jaguar suggestion sneaks in). I think I have just about every bit of aftermarket ever made for the Airfix 1:72 TSR.2, and I figured what the heck - use it all! So there will be a lot of innards showing. There are some outstanding TSR.2 builds on here, including the 1:48 gem made by our favourite Martian, and I'll steal all sorts of ideas pay homage to them with my build. Quote I'll leave you with this, the most beautiful photo of a Bucc I've seen, in that gorgeous low lighting angle Image credit: Rowland White https://mobile.twitter.com/RowlandWhite/status/580116554219700224 Tony Now that is a cool photo! It really does a great job of showing what Anti-Flash White was all about - reflecting energy away from the aircraft. And thanks for the link to the prior thread about the paint - very helpful. Off to Mouseland tomorrow, and I hear that something exciting is planned by the younger generation of my family. No one will tell me what, so I'll just have to wait in anticipation. I hope they're not giving me some kind of old geezer party with meet-and-greet characters. Although I do have fond memories of Minnie sitting on my lap... Cheers, Bill 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Brilliant work as always Bill, and you show utmost coolness in your knowledge of the Raveonettes. Also, welcome back NED! Brilliant work as always Bill, and you show utmost coolness in your knowledge of the Raveonettes. Also, welcome back NED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 (edited) Quote I don't know so much about Swedish heavy metal - I like some of the Scandinavian garage bands, though, like The Raveonettes, The Launderettes, etc. Actually Bill it was this kind of metal, 'Jakt and the Viggenettes' Produced by that great garage outfit SAAB, (actually just spent a fortnight touring with their whole back catalogue, all across southern Sweden......this was at the Malmen airshow. Lots of museums ending up with a visit to the Historic Flight at Satenas). Hey, a TSR 2 eh, well best of luck with it, not one of Airfix's finest but I'm sure you'll wrestle it into favour. I still have the 1/72nd one half built lanquishing in it's box surrounded by everything the after market types could throw at it...but I did manage to finish the big 1/48th fella. Enjoy your time in purgatory....not sure if I like surprises at theme parks, I remember having one set up for my daughter Melchetter in Florida...it involved a seven foot Bigfoot from 'BF and the Hendersons'. Took one look at him and ran off screaming hysterically, had half the park looking for her !, (wouldn't have minded but she was 22 at the time !). Edited September 23, 2016 by general melchett 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 On 9/23/2016 at 18:04, Cookenbacher said: Brilliant work as always Bill, and you show utmost coolness in your knowledge of the Raveonettes. Also, welcome back NED! Yup, ol' Navy Bird just oozes coolness. Just ask my daughter...no, wait, maybe she's not the best person to discuss my coolness with. I'll get back to you. And as far as that Ned fellow goes, he best be sticking around a bit longer this time!! On 9/23/2016 at 18:11, general melchett said: Actually Bill it was this kind of metal, 'Jakt and the Viggenettes' <snip> Produced by that great garage outfit SAAB, (actually just spent a fortnight touring with their whole back catalogue, all across southern Sweden......this was at the Malmen airshow. Lots of museums ending up with a visit to the Historic Flight at Satenas). Hey, a TSR 2 eh, well best of luck with it, not one of Airfix's finest but I'm sure you'll wrestle it into favour. I still have the 1/72nd one half built lanquishing in it's box surrounded by everything the after market types could throw at it...but I did manage to finish the big 1/48th fella. Enjoy your time in purgatory....not sure if I like surprises at theme parks, I remember having one set up for my daughter Melchetter in Florida...it involved a seven foot Bigfoot from 'BF and the Hendersons'. Took one look at him and ran off screaming hysterically, had half the park looking for her !, (wouldn't have minded but she was 22 at the time !). Of course it was the Viggenettes. How silly of me. They had that Number 1 toe-tapper "You Splintered My Camo, So I Busted Your Canard!" (Apologies to Spooky Tooth). Your theme park adventure sounds hilarious. I hope you shot some viddys. Cheers, Bill 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Bill, I recalled that Chris Sandham Bailey's recent Cold War Jets: Royal Air Force Fighters and Bombers has a colour chart at the back for this period, complete with BS numbers. Sorry to report that none of the whites for V-bombers etc. have any BS references. Is it likely that as specialist paints these anti-flash compounds would have perhaps have an Air Ministry designation, but not a general BS one? Hope you return safe from the House of the Mouse.... PS. I'm conscious in typing the above that BS has quite a specific connotation in your neck of the woods, so I'll stop with all the BS for now... Tony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Quote They had that Number 1 toe-tapper "You Splintered My Camo, So I Busted Your Canard!" (Apologies to Spooky Tooth). They certainly did...along with ''Spliff The Magic Draken'', ''Lansen's Song'', (apols to Zac Brown), the heavy metal take on Major Lansen's wonderful ''Hey Little Gripen'' (R&B singer, No4 in Jet Magazine from the SAAB Brothers) and of course who can forget ''16 Tunnans'' and their cover of Stevie Nicks ''Bombay Safir''... 'Hilarious' wasn't exactly how I thought of it at the time but of course time is the great healer...I won't even tell you about the time she met the Wicked Witch Of The West, the dog's still traumatised !...sadly video hadn't been invented at that time, (to be fair the Mammoth had only just gone out of fashion)..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hi mates, I survived the week with Mickey (actually I spent more time with Goofy as his intellect is more like mine) and, more importantly, I managed to prevent Wifey and Daughter #2 from using my money to buy a Disney timeshare. With the money saved, I can continue in this hobby... More importantly, my daughter's boyfriend proposed to her in front of Cinderella Castle. Knowing her love of all things Halloween (we went to Mickey's Halloween Party one night) he had a nice bouquet of flowers delivered to their dinner table that night - blood red roses with black feathers covered in spiderwebs and several big black spiders. Disney can do pretty much anything you ask them to (and pay for of course). At the Halloween party, she was the Queen of Hearts and her boyfriend was the Hatter. See? Even my kid think she's British. (Procopius - no hedgehogs were harmed during croquet, but the flamingos looked a bit worse for wear.) OK, OK, back to work. Right, where was I? Oh yeah, Anti-Flash White. I used Testors Model Master RLM21 on the underside of my Scimitar, and I think I'll use the same colour here. It's a semi-gloss white, which I think is appropriate since these early Buccs were glossy white when new. I'm one of those who believe in "scale gloss effect" and don't like anything super-shiny in 1:72 scale. Semi-gloss always looks better to me, but that could just be an early sign of dementia. Cheers, Bill 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) We hope this means Norman service is being resumed Well I don't mean normal do I? Not round here in BM. Sounds as if I'd enjoy Mouse land too, maybe once For half an hour... Glad you survived with your hobby-ability intact Edited October 3, 2016 by perdu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 5 hours ago, perdu said: We hope this means Norman service is being resumed Well I don't mean normal do I? Not round here in BM. There is not nor has there ever been anything normal on BM. I actually think normal is banned here. Martian 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 And, uh, here come some normals... They look like normal... Hawaiians. ... Well, it is unusual. Well, it's like a rabbit! He's got a head on him like a rabbit! I don't know, it's just not like normal people do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaddad Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 15 minutes ago, Ascoteer said: And, uh, here come some normals... They look like normal... Hawaiians. ... Well, it is unusual. Well, it's like a rabbit! He's got a head on him like a rabbit! I don't know, it's just not like normal people do.... Got a light Mac? No but I've got a dark brown overcoat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastvader Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 On 9/22/2016 at 5:33 PM, TheBaron said: Lovely work as ever Bill. I'm no expert in the Nick M. class when it comes to paint but I know the white paint on the undersides of the Sea Vixen were manufactured by a British company called Titanine, who I understand were also manufacturers of anti-flash white paint. I believe that Titanite (based just down the road from me in Jarrow, and now defunct) purportedly manufactured the AFW used more specifically on the Victor. I believe the finish on the Vulcan was manufactured by Cellon. EDIT: Should have finished reading the thread before trying to be clever as Melchie has already covered this. Ho-hum Great work on the Bucc Bill (though nothing less was to be expected ) and brilliant news on the medical front. I had been dipping in an out of this thread since it's inception, but as I am currently re-reading Pheonix Squadron my interest in the Bucc (which came out of service the day after my 7th birthday and which I only saw fly once or twice) has been rekindled and as such I shall be following much more closely. Toodles, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Well, I'm struggling with the vacuform windscreen and getting it faired (is that a word?) into the fuselage and let me tell you, I'm not having any fun. The windscreen is actually a bit wider than the fuselage, so I'm attempting to squeeze it to the correct width while the superglue dries. That's the easy part, but once I start blending (that's the word I was looking for!) with the fuselage the bond keeps breaking. I guess the pressure I'm putting on it is combining with its natural desire to return to its wider state and then "boing!" Oh well, I'll think of something. (Sorry, no photos of me screwing things up - that's my mantra.) In the meantime, I'll be off to chemo tomorrow. The return of Ned means that my cocktail changes from one derived from the same ingredients found in mustard gas (Bendamustine) to one derived from mouse antibodies (Rituxan). I guess we're switching from chemical warfare to biological warfare! This is good, since Ned only sees things on a cellular level, and there could still be something going on beneath that. Bring it all on, the cancer doesn't stand a chance! I hope my next post will have some nice photos of good progress! Cheers, Bill 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Good luck with the chemo Bill... For the canopy have you considered a WWND* with 5 minute epoxy (sticky but strong) OR my new favourite toy tool some BlueFixx u/v glue? The latter is a gel that lets you do some blending / filling and sets within seconds, but only when you shine the light on it. * What Would Nigel (Heath) Do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 The BS number for Anti-flash White was BS4800/5252/00E55 Colourcoats ACLE01 is matched to this standard 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 Thanks mates - I've managed to get through yet another round of chemo. Not so bad this time due to it being Rituxan instead of Bendamustine. Of course, when I finally was up and about, Memsahib decided that instead of modelling, it would be much better if we went shopping for new furniture, and that I should paint the bedroom, and while we're at it we should get some new carpet, which of course means moving and/or cleaning 41 years' worth of who knows what, but that presupposes making room in the fruit cellar for additional storage, made possible only by moving and/or cleaning another 41 years' worth of who knows what. Oh, and you're on for babysitting the grandkids tomorrow...no one told me that this was what retirement was like. I'd like to go back to work now. However, I think I finally found a picture (in colour!) that shows the anti-corrosion gunk applied to the inside surfaces of the air brakes. What do you think? Is that what I'm seeing, or are these Bricks and Vix just rusting in the sun? Notice how red the surfaces are on the farthest Brick on the right. Also, the white numbers on the air brakes have been applied after (or masked before) the application of the anti-corrosion gunk. All told, this may be a difficult effect to duplicate methinks. Cheers, Bill 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Welcome back Bill and I'm glad you're up and about again, even if it does involve tidying up for Memsahib! 1 hour ago, Navy Bird said: ..no one told me that this was what retirement was like. I'd like to go back to work now. I know nothing of these 1960s sitcoms aircraft of which you speak, Bird Navy Bird, but that reference shot looks pretty conclusive? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Glad the chemo is going OK. Can you not convince Mrs Bill that your doctors have prescribed so many hours modelling a day as part of your treatment programme? You might also suggest that heavy stuff such as decorating and furniture shopping has been barred to you by those same medics. Martian PS: Best not to let Mrs Bill see this post! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Add my gladness to the chemo-response Bill I had the same 'fairing-in' issues on the Falcon canopy I used on my Sea Venom, which had the same dimensional issues as your Bucc. In the end I just had to run plenty of Tamiya extra thin along the crack and hope. Martin's cunning plan seems your only salvation from a domestic dystopia. You could supplement this with a rider about husbanding energy levels for your daughter's wedding perhaps? I wasn't aware of anti-corrosion materials on the air brakes - great observation -though coincidentally last night I was reading about a blue anti-rust paint used on biplane rigging by the interwar RAF. Optically those tails look like some shellac and a tiny make-up sponge might be your friend in that region. Tony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Navy Bird said: All told, this may be a difficult effect to duplicate methinks. I've thought of two possible ways for that: chipping (to wit, paint a base coat, apply a chipping fluid, spray a rusty coat and chip away, or maybe swap the order of the colors), or dry-brushing with a soft flat brush - sort of creating a texture, if you know what I mean. Tony's idea sounds great too: 25 minutes ago, TheBaron said: a tiny make-up sponge might be your friend in that region. PS: glad the chemo went OK, and I feel your pain about domestic life ... Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Navy Bird said: However, I think I finally found a picture (in colour!) that shows the anti-corrosion gunk applied to the inside surfaces of the air brakes. Cheers, Bill Finally, I hope not, On 18/08/2016 at 9:44 AM, 71chally said: Hope these help, also from the excellent 'Wooley Family' site, note the air brake colour and the one furthest from the camera. http://www.woolleyfamily.co.uk/Aircraft_parked_upfront2.jpg http://www.woolleyfamily.co.uk/Wessex_Buccaneer.jpg Tongue frimly in cheek! I think the following few posts after that one on the 18 Aug discuss the airbrake & gunk. Seriously, I hope your treatment is going well and helps with your recovery. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 50 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Martin's cunning plan seems your only salvation from a domestic dystopia. You could supplement this with a rider about husbanding energy levels for your daughter's wedding perhaps? Good point Tony! You definitely wouldn't want to screw that one up Bill. Best relax with some serious modelling. I am sure their must be a tame doctor here on BM who would bck up our advice to Mrs Bill if needs be. Martian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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