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Navy Bird

1:72 Scale Resin Blackburn Buccaneer S.Mk.1

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On 8/15/2016 at 15:18, Miggers said:

And to my trained paint sprayery eye,those S.1 'pits look 'orribly like BS381C shade 632 Billy.

Judging by the small amount of fade and wear,they ain't bin repainted either,just as Blackburn's

painted 'em all those years ago.

 

Which would be Dark Admiralty Grey - that is my plan. But those photos are of an S.2 ...

 

I don't know if this means anything, but when you display 632 at e-paint.co.uk, its RGB values are 104, 110, 113 - which means that it has just the tiniest bit of blueness in it. I know that the RGB values are simply an on-screen simulation of the colour, and that some colours can't really be converted to RGB accurately at all. But it's an interesting place to start. I usually spray Gunze, so I'm looking for something around 50-60% black (based on CMYK conversion of RGB values - now we're really off in la-la-land) and a tiny smidgen of purple-blue. Sleuth cap on, but it doesn't fit well...

 

Could buy some Humbrol I suppose...

 

On 8/15/2016 at 15:20, Col. said:

Here you go Bill :)

20150607_144045.jpg

20150607_144103.jpg

I've a few more of the fuselage and wing fold from this machine that I'll get organised for you shortly.

 

Thanks! I guess no vents up front then. The larger ones back farther are already present on the kit.

 

This brings up another question, seeing as we're looking at the intakes. What colour are they painted inside? The instruction booklet, if I'm reading it correctly, says Dark Brown with an FS equivalent of 10070. Can that be right? I was thinking white.

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Dark brown!?! Seems strange. I'll have a look through some reference books and see if there's anything about it.

In the meantime here's some more from around the intake area;

20150607_144137.jpg

20150607_144154.jpg

20150607_144214.jpg

20150607_144227.jpg

20150607_144611.jpg

20150607_144621.jpg

20150607_144635.jpg

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Thanks, mates, any photos of S.1 cockpits would be appreciated. Thanks!

Cheers,

Bill

Hi Bill,

I've just loaded several walk around photos onto my Flickr account.

28904690632_2457a4eeb6_b.jpg

Blackburn Buccaneer S1 by Mark Maclean, on Flickr

28389924164_31dfa672d0_b.jpg

Blackburn Buccaneer S1 by Mark Maclean, on Flickr

29009664935_5273ec4d46_b.jpg

Blackburn Buccaneer S1 by Mark Maclean, on Flickr

I hope the pics are of use to you. There are more in the album here.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskGoC7ZC

Feel free to link to any pics that are of use to you.

Regards,

Mark

P.S. When I asked my dad to take a pic of me in the cockpit I couldn't turn down the opportunity to dress up when the guy went and got the helmet and survival vest for me to try on. I'm a bit high up in the seat on account of the booster seat fitted for when kids get their photos taken. It was great fun!

4030493526_4cdff05bfa_z.jpg?zz=1

Mark in Buccaneer by Mark Maclean, on Flickr

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Thanks, Mark, the album is great. Lots of good detail photos. The white interior to the intake is more what I expected, but I have a feeling that this is a repainted museum piece. Although the cockpit looks like it may be the original paint...thanks again! :)

 

I'm still struggling about the recommendation from CMR to paint the inside of the intakes brown. I can't find a single photo that shows that, or any reference that mentions it. However, since Andy White served as the technical consultant for this kit, I am sure that it has some basis in fact.

 

The most common reference I've found on the net is that they were "camouflage colours" which would match the photo that Col. posted. Another popular choice is Light Admiralty Grey, which is also a common reference for the landing gear struts and wheel bays. CMR notes for two of the schemes that the interior aircraft surfaces were Mustard Yellow. Primer maybe? I am also quite sure that Andy has access to far more records and documents than I can find on-line!

 

Anyway, about the cockpit colour - the swatch displayed on Humbrol's web site for Dark Admiralty Grey has virtually the same RGB values as the one from e-paint.co.uk. Just a couple ticks different in the blue value. Interesting, but probably useless information. Unless e-paint re-bottles Humbrol and sells it by the litre...

 

Back to work...

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Bill, I forgot you're a color* wizard. I can see the diminutive jet inlets now that we have some great photo compare. Seems the S.2 is my preferred of the two, must be the intakes.

Do you ever find that after your meticulous color research is all lined up and the model is painted that it still just doesn't seem right? I wonder that sometimes when fiddling with most esoteric schemes. Perhaps scale effect and fidelity loss due to print/web issues are what stymie my attempts.

Anyways, I am looking forward to more progress as you present it.

* Most of you spell colour the same way I do, but I feel that when you can adapt your conversation around the recipient then you should do so... For harmony and stuff.

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On 8/15/2016 at 20:04, modelglue said:

Bill, I forgot you're a color* wizard. I can see the diminutive jet inlets now that we have some great photo compare. Seems the S.2 is my preferred of the two, must be the intakes.

Do you ever find that after your meticulous color research is all lined up and the model is painted that it still just doesn't seem right? I wonder that sometimes when fiddling with most esoteric schemes. Perhaps scale effect and fidelity loss due to print/web issues are what stymie my attempts.

Anyways, I am looking forward to more progress as you present it.

* Most of you spell colour the same way I do, but I feel that when you can adapt your conversation around the recipient then you should do so... For harmony and stuff.

 

Alas, I'm not a wizard, not even a court jester. I do have an advanced degree in optical design and engineering, and I ran a defence optics firm for a decade or so, specialising in night vision optics, but the science of colour definition and measurement was not our gig. And I spell colour this way because Procopius told me to. :)

 

I enjoy the colour research, but it's really just one of the topics I like to dig into. And when I say research I mean of the "arm chair" variety, I would never put myself in the same class as guys like Nick, Troy, or Graham, etc. And Edgar of course. Those guys rock - I'm just a modeller.

 

Did I ever find that a chosen colour looks wrong? Sure. That's usually due to something I cocked up - just try to do better the next time. And speaking of cock-ups, how about some modelling?

 

Test fitting the fuselage halves with the cockpit pointed out a couple of things. First, the width of the front fuselage is smaller on the bottom half than the top, something that is not uncommon with resin kits. Also, the floor of the cockpit is designed to contact the top of the nose gear well - and they do, leaving a gap on both sides where the forward fuselage halves meet. I used sanding sticks to sand down both the floor of the cockpit and the roof of the nose gear well until the gap was gone (test fitting like crazy). Luckily I didn't sand all the way through the roof of the nose gear well - it has a round depression where the nose wheel goes when retracted and it survived.

 

One thing that I forgot to mention during all this talk about cleaning up the edges and sanding resin away, etc. It's incredibly important to do some dimensional checking while you're sanding, so that you don't go too far and that mating parts align well. I chose the radome and the intakes as my dimensional checks. The height and width of the radome (it has an elliptical cross-section) must match the height and width of the fuselage - I sanded until this condition was met. The same was true for the separate intake pieces, they must match the height of the fuselage where they attach, otherwise there will be a step. Again, test fitting helps you sand just enough. (The intake on the starboard side matches without any sanding of the fuselage halves - all the cleanup is on the port side.)

 

I also found that it helped if I sanded down the width of the two cockpit bulkheads. To help spread the lower front fuselage, so that it matches the top, I glued some tabs onto the top, as you can see here:

 

IMG_0598

 

After I did all this stuff, I decided to take another look at the instruction booklet. Believe it or not, CMR suggests sanding in all of the areas that I sanded, and they suggest adding the tabs. Plus, there are a few more tips that I haven't encountered yet, but will very soon. Sweet.

 

CMR suggest 27 grams of ballast just aft of the nose gear well. Seems like a lot, but since the landing gear struts are made out of that high-strength black Unobtainium resin it should be OK.

 

I added this star-shaped photoetch piece to the cockpit side console:

 

IMG_0601

 

I thought "How Cool!" - Blackburn have provided our pilot with a five-pointed Ninja Frisbee of Death! If he runs out of missiles and ammo, he can just roll down the window and fling the Frisbee at his nefarious opponent. Special top-secret alloys ensure armour plate penetration and bad guy impalement every time.

 

Oh, wait. Maybe it's just the "throttle friction control." Never mind.

 

EDIT: I forgot to post some photos of the photoetch cockpit pieces. First, here is the fret as it came with my kit - you should be able to see those portions of the pre-painted pieces that look like Interior Grey-Green:

 

IMG_0589

 

I decided to paint over the Grey-Green with the proper dark grey interior colour. Yikes! I got out my 20/0 brush and a magnifying glass, and did the best I could. Luckily the stuff is so small that I don't expect anyone to notice!

 

IMG_0590

 

I'll probably do some touch up with black in a couple of places. I wonder why it was Interior Grey-Green to begin with? The instructions don't have you use that colour at any time during the build.

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Taking notes on the use of resin Bill. Never used the stuff but have a Bucc nose looming in the future. That etch looks a purposeful contrast to some of the Airwaves stuff I'm battling.

I have a question provoked by your background in defence optics; did you ever meet the late James G.Baker? (not to be confused with the politician, James A..). Ive always been fascinated by the research he did on reconaissance optics for aircraft and orbital platforms. Some extraordinary stuff.

Also meant to say that I enjoy the pace and depth of your build commentaries no end, always a pleaure to read.

Tony

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Nice start there Bill. On the subject of intake colours; have a second look at the intake blanks in the photos I posted - does that look like a dark brown rim between them and where the camouflage colours stop?

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Nice start there Bill. On the subject of intake colours; have a second look at the intake blanks in the photos I posted - does that look like a dark brown rim between them and where the camouflage colours stop?

Could that be some kind of rubber sealant on the blanks?

Edit:

No it isn't

the contrast/brightness on my phone was set to low to see it clear

Edited by Levin

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Great start Bill, the S.1 is often overlooked in favour of the later mark. As an aside a friend of mine in the village who's help with my 1/24th S.2 has been invaluable flew the S.1 on a couple of occasions whilst carrying out pre delivery testing at Holme-on-Spalding Moor and said he actually preferred the handling of the earlier mark at the time as the single spool Gyrons reacted faster than the twin spooled Speys due to the LP compressor lag. This was something that the FAA chaps had to get used to pretty quickly particularly on final approach, on the other hand the Spey's extra power meant you didn't have to worry about landing back aboard if one of the engines decided to pack up.

Funnily enough I was looking over the S.1 at Newark the other day with a mind to get one of these. I've heard good things about the kit so look forward to seeing what you do with it...

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I don't have any supporting pictures of the intakes but one reason they may be called out as brown could be the make up. I think portions of the intake are an early fiberglass construction and the natural colour of the dried resin would be a brown colour. If the fiberglass portion was left unpainted (not beyond the realms of possibility) then that could explain the brown. But like I said I have no evidence of it actually not being painted.........yet!

Bob

Did find a picture of the first flight which suggests a dark intake colour?

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-chief-test-pilot-derek-whitehead-and-head-of-flight-test-bernard-watson-55295955.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=04F43EEA-0A34-48B4-8526-EFF49110E1F7&p=184110&n=58&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26sortby%3d2%26qt%3dblackburn%2520buccaneer%26qt_raw%3dblackburn%2520buccaneer%26qn%3d%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26aoa%3d1%26creative%3d%26videos%3d%26nu%3d%26ccc%3d%26bespoke%3d%26apalib%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26ot%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26archive%3d1%26name%3d%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26userid%3d%26id%3d%26a%3d%26xstx%3d0%26cbstore%3d1%26lightbox%3d%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26apalic%3d%26tbar%3d1%26pc%3d%26simid%3d%26cap%3d1%26customgeoip%3d%26vd%3d0%26cid%3d%26pe%3d%26so%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26t%3d0%26edoptin%3d

Or this on at the FAA museum

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdurston2009/23515806533/

Edited by moaning dolphin

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Interesting about the inside of the intakes colour, I've always had it down as a very flat/dull natural metal, similar to the Vixen.

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Regarding the intake colours they seem to differ slightly, quite hard to come by definite answers

NA.39's had the dark area further back into the intake

http://www.aviationphotocompany.com/p783529736/h4B356FBD#h4ef4ce3

Most operational white S.1's seemed to have dark intakes right up to the outer lip

http://www.aviationphotocompany.com/p783529736/h4B356FBD#h23a81320

http://combatace.com/gallery/image/6912-royal-navy-s2a-buccaneers-in-anti-flash-white/

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e9/bd/bb/e9bdbb11bffc27966de510ced44ab360.jpg

Some low viz and EDSG/white S.1's had the brown ring around the intake cone which may well have continued inside,

http://www.woolleyfamily.co.uk/Bucc.jpg

Same seemed to go for EDSG/white aircraft...

http://www.aviationphotocompany.com/p783529736/h4B356FBD#h4b35646a

As for the colour, not sure but a dirty brown/steel mix seems to ring a distant bell...

Cheers

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On 8/16/2016 at 02:47, TheBaron said:

I have a question provoked by your background in defence optics; did you ever meet the late James G.Baker? (not to be confused with the politician, James A..). Ive always been fascinated by the research he did on reconaissance optics for aircraft and orbital platforms. Some extraordinary stuff.

Also meant to say that I enjoy the pace and depth of your build commentaries no end, always a pleaure to read.

 

Thanks, Tony. I never met Baker but I was a friend of the late Chuck Spoelhof, who designed the optics for the reconnaissance satellites built by Eastman Kodak. Chuck and I were members of the Rochester Academy of Science, specifically the Astronomy Section. That's my other hobby. I've read that Baker got his interest in optics from grinding his own telescope mirrors - that is exactly how my interest started! Talk about a nerdy kid. Off topic, but here is the latest telescope that I built - a 30 cm Dobsonian reflector back in 2004.

 

s100_3894

 

First thing I ever made out of wood. Here's the mirror:

 

s100_3918

 

Rather more expensive hobby than scale modelling. :)

 

One thing about those 1960s spy satellites - the photos were exposed onto film, which was then automatically processed and the picture scanned for transmission back to earth. After it was declassified, Chuck gave our group a presentation detailing the system for doing this. Fascinating stuff.

 

On 8/16/2016 at 03:53, Col. said:

Nice start there Bill. On the subject of intake colours; have a second look at the intake blanks in the photos I posted - does that look like a dark brown rim between them and where the camouflage colours stop?

 

I see that now that you point it out. Thanks.

 

On 8/16/2016 at 05:17, general melchett said:

Great start Bill, the S.1 is often overlooked in favour of the later mark. As an aside a friend of mine in the village who's help with my 1/24th S.2 has been invaluable flew the S.1 on a couple of occasions whilst carrying out pre delivery testing at Holme-on-Spalding Moor and said he actually preferred the handling of the earlier mark at the time as the single spool Gyrons reacted faster than the twin spooled Speys due to the LP compressor lag. This was something that the FAA chaps had to get used to pretty quickly particularly on final approach, on the other hand the Spey's extra power meant you didn't have to worry about landing back aboard if one of the engines decided to pack up.

Funnily enough I was looking over the S.1 at Newark the other day with a mind to get one of these. I've heard good things about the kit so look forward to seeing what you do with it...

 

I'll do my best. I would really like to see you get that 1:24 scale build going again. Man, that must be a monster. Come on, you know you want to do it! :)

 

On 8/16/2016 at 06:59, moaning dolphin said:

I don't have any supporting pictures of the intakes but one reason they may be called out as brown could be the make up. I think portions of the intake are an early fiberglass construction and the natural colour of the dried resin would be a brown colour. If the fiberglass portion was left unpainted (not beyond the realms of possibility) then that could explain the brown. But like I said I have no evidence of it actually not being painted.........yet!

Bob

Did find a picture of the first flight which suggests a dark intake colour?

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-chief-test-pilot-derek-whitehead-and-head-of-flight-test-bernard-watson-55295955.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=04F43EEA-0A34-48B4-8526-EFF49110E1F7&p=184110&n=58&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26sortby%3d2%26qt%3dblackburn%2520buccaneer%26qt_raw%3dblackburn%2520buccaneer%26qn%3d%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26aoa%3d1%26creative%3d%26videos%3d%26nu%3d%26ccc%3d%26bespoke%3d%26apalib%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26ot%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26archive%3d1%26name%3d%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26userid%3d%26id%3d%26a%3d%26xstx%3d0%26cbstore%3d1%26lightbox%3d%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26apalic%3d%26tbar%3d1%26pc%3d%26simid%3d%26cap%3d1%26customgeoip%3d%26vd%3d0%26cid%3d%26pe%3d%26so%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26t%3d0%26edoptin%3d

Or this on at the FAA museum

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jdurston2009/23515806533/

 

Thanks for those photos - they certainly seem to support what CMR have put in the instruction booklet. And you may be right about the Fiberglas, but I might have thought maybe a "radome tan" colour in such a case. CMR cites FS10070 as the brown colour, and that is pretty dark with maybe a touch of red. Maybe. Not like a Spitfire seat, that's for sure.

 

On 8/16/2016 at 08:13, 71chally said:

Interesting about the inside of the intakes colour, I've always had it down as a very flat/dull natural metal, similar to the Vixen.

 

Do you think the dull natural metal might look brown? I think that's possible, and some of the photos show what looks like metal construction.

 

The General's last post came in while I was typing this, and the photos he's linked all support the dark brown citation. Thanks! Plus, as I said earlier I don't think that Andy White would get something like this wrong. Since he was the technical consultant for the kit, I'm inclined to believe it.

 

So Dark Brown it is! And that will make an interesting contrast if I decide to do the all-white scheme.

 

Back to painting tiny switches and knobs...

 

Cheers,

Bill

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as the single spool Gyrons reacted faster than the twin spooled Speys due to the LP compressor lag.

The Spey also had a bleed valve that closed at around 85% RPM - so around that point a very small throttle movement could result in a huge change in power (ask me how I know this!). Couple in the BLC and it could all go horribly wrong very quickly!

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Cheers Bill, I'm being mobbed from all quarters to get the biggun' done so I'd better pull my finger out I guess.

I seem to remember my friend Ted mentioning the brownish interior of the S.1's intakes some time ago, I'm sure he likened them to dirty drains !

Debs, the sensitivity you mentioned must have resulted in a few anxious moments for especially coupled to the BLC and sensitive pitch of the beast, then chuck in a rolling and pitching deck, poor vis and driving rain for fun.

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See, that, right there, that is why I don't land on boats!

Personally I like my airfield to:

a. Stay where I left it.

b. Not move.

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Beautiful Dob Bill. What craftsmanship you US astronomers have! I've an old Dynascope RV6 I inherited from my father-in-law that used to be part of the Armagh observatory. It's very decrepit, the mirror needs re-silverig and the cork gearing's all shot. One day...

Those Corona birds were fascinating, especially that risky mid-air process for collecting the film buckets. Baker did some fascinating stuff on folded optics on aircraft as well that I guess is a natural segue with astroronomical technology.

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See, that, right there, that is why I don't land on boats!

Personally I like my airfield to:

a. Stay where I left it.

b. Not move.

c. Be a sitting duck.

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Of course a boat is not exactly a target ...

**cough**

Exocet

Harpoon

Sea Eagle

SS-N-19 Shipwreck

Crisp, I'd suggest it's a lot easier to kill a boat than it is to destroy an airfield - don't forget I used to do SURPIC/VASTAC. :P

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Do you think the dull natural metal might look brown? I think that's possible, and some of the photos show what looks like metal construction.

Possibly, maybe natural tarnishing of the metal finish. There is a period 'Flight' photo which shows the intake, although it's B& W it shows the dull metallic finish well, just need to locate said picture again.

When I first noticed the metal finish on Navy jet intakes I was surprised as I would have thought a good gloss white finish through to the turbine would have been better for erosion and cleaning reasons.

I think the one S.1 I would trust as reference is XN957 at FAAM as apparently it has been little messed with since service retirement.

That looks a great kit by the way, resin fills me with dread!

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Of course a boat is not exactly a target ...

**cough**

Exocet

Harpoon

Sea Eagle

SS-N-19 Shipwreck

Crisp, I'd suggest it's a lot easier to kill a boat than it is to destroy an airfield - don't forget I used to do SURPIC/VASTAC. :P

Of course, but you bit like a good 'un. But, some-seriously, don't be under any illusions that every single military airfield in the UK is firmly programmed into the target co-ordinates of that nice Mr Putin.

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I started off as a Fighter Controller.

A WRAF.

A non-combatant (apparently).

Guess where the first AS4 was going to land?

Having said that, I rather like the idea that the bar (Wardroom) could be next to my bedroom (cabin) on the same floor (deck) and that I can get good food (scran) in the Dinning Room (Galley).

I do, however, take issue with a hairy matelot banging on my door (bulkhead) and asking me what time I would like him to give me a 'shake' in the morning!

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Quick question: Did the S.1 have the same lateral offsets (albeit in different directions) of the ejection seats as was seen in the S.2? Thanks - you can resume your RAF vs. FAA discussion now. I should re-post Steve Long's note from God, I have it around here somewhere... :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Apparently they were Bill, according to the 700Z Flight S1 evaluation section of March 1961 in the Modern Combat Aircraft 7 'Buccaneer' book by Maurice Allward.

Also hunting through old reference magazines I found this photo of an S1 with the brown intake cones, clearly shows what appears to be the same colour extending back inside the intake,

Here's a scan,

img125_zpsmgswmgko.jpg

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