Cheshiretaurus Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Yet another ebay impulse buy occurred last Saturday following a few pints and it arrived today. The new tool Revell Hawk. This rather neat little kit comes trying to be a modern hawk with 2015 Reds decals however it has the old style curved rear upper fuselage. Now this gave me an idea, make it into a very early hawk. As early as it comes, the prototype XX154 as it was when it first flew in 1974, looking something like this:- http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/001133060L.html The Revell offering will need a bit of modification, but not a lot. So things I know I need to change are as follows Wing fences moved inboard and reshaped, - Plasticard Absence of vortex generators. - wet & dry Wide ejection seat head boxes - Scratch built or modified old matchbox seat Fritag style So far I cant see any other changes needed. This sounds far to simple to be true so.... Anyone know what else is needed?? Thanks for looking CT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Omit the ventral fins. The mainwheel doors have two horizontal strakes across the circular centre section. The instrument panels and consoles likely would be a bit different, though that's only my guess. Not sure where to look for info, but contemporary Air Int'l may be an idea, and the Roy Braybrook book may have more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Sorry for the double post - unsmart Smartphone. An area that also may have been subtly altered is the region just above the jetpipe/rudder to tailcone fillet. Edited August 12, 2016 by tempestfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambuster Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 I wasn't aware that the rear upper fuselage changed. Can you show the difference between the two? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britman Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 This aircraft was the first pre production aircraft. For some reason, and I guess it may have been made in "production " jigs there was no prototype as such. That was my first and to memory my best Farnborough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 Omit the ventral fins. The mainwheel doors have two horizontal strakes across the circular centre section. The instrument panels and consoles likely would be a bit different Looking for pics of those areas - thanks Air Int'l may be an idea, and the Roy Braybrook book may have more info. Been looking at the Flight Global archives, just found that book on amazon second hand for the price of 1 penny, ordered! An area that also may have been subtly altered is the region just above the jetpipe/rudder to tailcone fillet. Think this has been conveniently covered in error by the Revell kit (see below) I wasn't aware that the rear upper fuselage changed. Can you show the difference between the two? Its shown here in the excellent IPMS Red Arrows special And here's the Airfix (A2005A) & new tool Revell for comparison, The Revell kit has the fillet as a separate part. This aircraft was the first pre production aircraft. For some reason, and I guess it may have been made in "production " jigs there was no prototype as such. That was my first and to memory my best Farnborough. Absolutely correct the prototype was also the first production aircraft built on the production jigs. I was 3 in 1974. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Great idea CT. I have the Braybrook book (do you?) and can have a look through later and see if it mentions anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Been looking at the Flight Global archives, just found that book on amazon second hand for the price of 1 penny, ordered! I think you have been robbed with that one...It may be an idea to swap the mainwheel doors between the Airfix and Revell, unless Airfix finally got around to redoing it for their 2.5th attempt at the Hawk. The 48th kit replicated what came in their original XX154/6 kit, and at least the first issue of the 2nd 72nd kit was largely based on the 48th version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 I have the Braybrook book (do you?) Not yet but its on its way only ordered it about an hour ago .It may be an idea to swap the mainwheel doors between the Airfix and Revell,I shall look into that, have some spare doors around somewhere from when I made a wheels up version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 I had a quick peek in the book - and it looks like for the first flight at least there were no wing fences fitted at all. That might be an attractive option? Also it looks like the forward flap elements were full width fro begin with - so if you're planning on having the flaps down that would be another visible difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) I wasn't aware that the rear upper fuselage changed. Can you show the difference between the two? Peter See also post 11 in this thread: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234994795-bae-hawk-t1-red-arrows-172-revell/?hl=%2Brevell+%2Bhawk Edited August 12, 2016 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 I had a quick peek in the book - and it looks like for the first flight at least there were no wing fences fitted at all. That might be an attractive option? That would make it nice and simples I think I'll go with that The pic in post 1 was just 18 days after the first flight with the fences to iron out leading edge flow break up in the stall. Also it looks like the forward flap elements were full width fro begin with - so if you're planning on having the flaps down that would be another visible difference. More stall handling issues the shorter strips actually raised the stall speed by 5 knots, think I'll do it flaps up, keeps things simple. I havent seen an earlydays pic with flaps down while parked. CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Hi CT Here are some photos that may help? I have some cockpit shots too but I'm not sure if they are from 154 or a production aircraft. John Edited August 12, 2016 by canberra kid 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambuster Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Thanks for the clarifications. I did know about the fin fillet and brake-chute variations, I mis-interpreted the original post to mean something more significant with the main fuselage. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted August 12, 2016 Author Share Posted August 12, 2016 The mainwheel doors have two horizontal strakes across the circular centre section.Is this what you were referring to? Hi CT Here are some photos that may help? Absolutely brilliant John, many thanks for that. Most certainly will help Thanks for the clarifications. Your very welcome Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaCee26 Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Is this what you were referring to? Hello CT, Those are available from the old Airfix Hawk. Although they have lower end of the covers in an angle to the ground and not horizontal... It has also the early type ejection seat head rests. Cheers, AaCee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 Those are available from the old Airfix Hawk. Although they have lower end of the covers in an angle to the ground and not horizontal... It has also the early type ejection seat head rests. Dont think I'd be able to get hold of that kit cheaply enough, Think the Revell offerings should suffice with some plastic strip or rod, As for the head boxes, I have a Matchbox Hawk 200 in the stash I intend to clone the headbox from in resin, I also need these head boxes for another early 80s Raspberry ripple hawk I'm also doing from the modern Airfix kit. On another note the Revell Instructions dont seem to mention anything about nose weights, Can I ask amyone whos built this kit, Is it going to need it and if so how much? Many thanks CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Excellent choice of subject CT and one I know your skills and talent will do justice to. Between you and Fritag there will be plenty top quality Hawk modelling to watch around here Here are some photos that may help? I have some cockpit shots too but I'm not sure if they are from 154 or a production aircraft. Those photos served as a great reminder to just how lovely the lines of the Hawk are. Cracking images John. As for the cockpit; sure I've seen photos of the early pre-production instrument panels somewhere, perhaps on here or in the Aeroguide booklet, will have a look in the latter once I can remember where I put it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Is this what you were referring to? Yep - I can't quite make out if the lower edge is horizontal or angled, but it looks like it's angled upwards at the front, very slightly so. Looking at the pic, I'm not that sure if the Airfix doors will help you much, I have a feeling they may be slightly undersized - at least they're rather fat...and the recess may be too small. The original tool Airfix Hawk could be bought for pennies on ebay.de in the past few years, usually; maybe more got built in the UK than over here ? The only one which is a bit scarce is the 1980 Red Arrows boxing (plus its1981 box version). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 It's a shame you aren't building G-Hawk CT, I have more photos of her than you can shake a stick at! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 That would be nice, G-HAWK / ZA101 could be a whole project on its own its worn many colours and many shapes in T1 & T2 format and as export versions. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=g-hawk+za101 From http://www.ukserials.com/ CT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twobad Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 That would be nice, G-HAWK / ZA101 could be a whole project on its own its worn many colours and many shapes in T1 & T2 format and as export versions. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=g-hawk+za101 From http://www.ukserials.com/ CT That's interesting. I never knew ZA101 carried a centreline drop tank ever. I don't recall it being plumbed for one. A modified Aden gunpod was usually served duty as a baggage pod too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 That would be nice, G-HAWK / ZA101 could be a whole project on its own its worn many colours and many shapes in T1 & T2 format and as export versions. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=g-hawk+za101 From http://www.ukserials.com/ CT You're right CT she would make a subject all of her own, if I didn't have a like of Canberra building ahead of me she would be high on my list. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 That one should be straight forward 3 extra fences on each wing and some careful masking. at least the registration looks like it was done with the standard RAF post war lettering. That tank is a bit big init. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twobad Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) That one should be straight forward 3 extra fences on each wing and some careful masking. at least the registration looks like it was done with the standard RAF post war lettering. That tank is a bit big init. That will be a 190 gallon drop tank. The usual ones carried were 130s or 190s (if memory serves). The 190s were only really for ferry flights and weren't jettisonable. Chris Roberts, one of the test pilots, flew the aircraft on part of the US T45 sales tour. The drop tanks are pressurised by engine bleed air and feed into the main collector tank in the wing centre section, there is no transfer pump. The pilot has no control over this, he can only monitor the transfer. On one flight during the tour one of the drop tanks failed to transfer so the more Chris flew, the more out of trim the aircraft got. He was faced with a diversion to Pensacola as the nearest airbase, but decided to stretch it to Miami. I remember him telling me that he landed with almost full aileron applied, but there was no way he was staying at Pensacola if Miami was an option! Edited August 18, 2016 by Twobad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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