US interwar colours of insides

[JWM]

Hi,

Can anybody help me - what was the right colur for insided of fabric covered US interwar machines like Curtiss F11/BF2C, Douglas O-38 etc... I think (or rather I guess) that metal tubing was in zinc chromate but waht was a colour of fabric? In UK was red due to impregnation, similar red can be seen on Me 323 colour photos - the repaired places are red. So perhaps also red?

Cheers

J-W

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

In Britain, the red was dope for protection against sunlight.

[Graham Boak]

I suspect that the internal metal tubing/skin was Aluminium, rather than ZC. This is what is seen on early US aircraft sold to the UK and France in the late 30s. But I don't know for sure.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Graham Boak

[MilneBay]

In a couple of books on between the wars US aircraft I have, where manufacturers' pics of the internals are shown these appear to be in painted aluminium colour. Aluminium based dopes were also used as a a protection against UV damage on fabric services. The use of zinc chromate (yellow or green tinted) appears in the very late 30s. There is a well known pic of a Douglas TBD in prewar yellow wings markings which shows the cockpit interior to be some type of ZC green finish. Others have aluminium coloured interiors.

[JWM]

Thank you Gents! I am starting work on Douglas O 38 - so I am doing aluminium in inside

Regards

J-W

[Dana Bell]

Hi,

Can anybody help me - what was the right colur for insided of fabric covered US interwar machines like Curtiss F11/BF2C, Douglas O-38 etc... I think (or rather I guess) that metal tubing was in zinc chromate but waht was a colour of fabric? In UK was red due to impregnation, similar red can be seen on Me 323 colour photos - the repaired places are red. So perhaps also red?

Cheers

J-W

Hi J-W,

The fabric itself was slightly darkened fabric color on the inside. Once the fabric was stretched in place, it was given at least one coat of clear dope, and often a few coats of semi-pigmented dope (depending on date applied and service/manufacturer). Since the all coats were applied from the exterior, and since the first coat soaked completely through the fabric, subsequent finish coats very rarely could be seen on the interior.

During the 1930s, metal structures were protected by primer coats, then usually finished with aluminum lacquer. There were a great number of exceptions, the greatest being on Navy aircraft with mixed aluminum and Aircraft Gray exteriors; the Aircraft Gray was applied because the Navy's aluminum enamel wouldn't stick to most metal primers, including interior primed metal surfaces. So, if your early Navy Curtiss biplane has Aircraft Gray on the exterior metal surfaces, the same color will be on interior metal structures.

Once cockpit colors were designed to reduce reflection on night flights, all the rules changed in the cockpits, and often throughout the interior.

Cheers,

Dana

[JWM]

Dana. many thanks indeed

Cheers

J-W

[VH-USB]

Hi J-W,

I'll concur with Dana about the inside of the fabric being, simply, it's natural light color.

I had in my small collection two pieces of old aircraft fabric which nicely illustrate this.

One piece of fabric was the full starboard rudder fabric off a 1927 Ryan B-1 Brougham and the other old piece a section of the upper starboard wing fabric off a 1931 Boeing Model 95 mailplane.

The Ryan fabric was painted silver dope on it's outside and the Boeing 95 was International Orange with part of the black registration number.

The inside of both these old pieces of fabric were the natural light color of the fabric with no hint of the exterior paint at all.

Cheers,

Tim

Edited August 12, 2016 by VH-USB

[JWM]

Tim - many thanks! Now I made a full circle - to the begining ... Although - not exactly. Now, whatever I will do, I can give a reference to it ! :)

Cheers

Jerzy-Wojtek

[Blimpyboy]

On 8/13/2016 at 5:37 AM, VH-USB said:

I'll concur with Dana about the inside of the fabric being, simply, it's natural light color.

 

Sure, it's a Canadian aircraft, but I presume it's treated with a clear dope:

 

 

 

[derekS]

 According to "The Official Monogram U.S. Army Air Service Color Guide",page 42,from March 1930

the first coat applied to fabric covered fuselages was to be "Cream No1" to keep theinside surfaces

free from discoloration.HTH 

 

  Derek S

[Dana Bell]

I hadn't realized this thread went back so far!  I found some new information at the Archives just before the Covid shutdown a couple of years back -- an Army unit requested permission to paint the interior of fabric surfaces with aluminized dope or enamel.  The request noted that several Navy squadrons had been doing this to prevent oil and dirt from discoloring the cockpit interiors and make things look more professional.  Wright Field granted permission.

 

This couldn't have been a widespread practice -- at least I've never found any photo of an Army or Navy aircraft with the fabric painted aluminum inside.  Still, it makes for an interesting possibility, and after my "definitive" note of six years ago I thought the revised infromatino needed sharing...

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana