ALE-40 questions (On C-130)

[ReccePhreak]

I am working on a 1/72 C-130, and want to add the ALE-40 dispensers on the fuel tank pylons, as well as the dispensers on either side of the nose wheel well. I am not going to show the dispensers loaded, so I was looking for the dimension of the blanking plates. With those dimensions, I can "guesstimate" the dimensions of the rest of the assemblies. An online search didn't turn up anything helpful. Can anyone help?

Larry
lengesath(AT)cox(DOT)net

[TimB]

Try https://designer.home.xs4all.nl/models/nf-5/nf5a-dispenser.htm

Regards

Tim

[ReccePhreak]

Try https://designer.home.xs4all.nl/models/nf-5/nf5a-dispenser.htm

Regards

Tim

Thanks, I had seen that site in my Google search. It's different than the one on the C-130s (their dispenser is bigger, with more carts), but if I can figure out how many carts the C-130 dispensers carry, then I can get close to the dimensions.

Regards,

Larry

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

Larry, some pictures would help???

Are the nose dispensers on the picture below the ones you are after?

Because if they are I have a locally produced EWSP update set for RAAF C-130s that has them included. I could take some pictures and measurements if you would like.

[ReccePhreak]

Larry, some pictures would help???

Are the nose dispensers on the picture below the ones you are after?

Because if they are I have a locally produced EWSP update set for RAAF C-130s that has them included. I could take some pictures and measurements if you would like.

Nice shot, but the dispensers are like the ones in the following pic, on either side of the nose wheel well.

Larry

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

Ok,

I have a J model update set from the same local manufacturer that has those dispensers. They are to replace the Italeri ones which have the wrong shape. Again I can take pictures and measurements if you want.

[ReccePhreak]

Ok,

I have a J model update set from the same local manufacturer that has those dispensers. They are to replace the Italeri ones which have the wrong shape. Again I can take pictures and measurements if you want.

That would be fantastic! Measurements would be great. Also, if I had a clear pic of your parts, next to a ruler, then I could figure out how to make my parts. As much as I'd like to get the Wolfpack detail/upgrade set, i just can't afford it.

Larry

lengesath(AT)cox(DOT)net

[Jay Barfoot]

Hi Larry,

Depending upon the model and country of C-130 you’re modeling, the C-130 defensive systems layout can be quite different. If you’re looking at a “vanilla” (non-special purpose) C-130H3 USAF trash hauler that your Cheyenne Guard Herc pic depicts, there are actually 22 countermeasure dispensers located in 7 areas around the aircraft. I’ve marked your Cheyenne Herc pic with them.

The AN/ALE-40 is the entire dispensing system consisting not only of the dispensers (the buckets into which the flare/chaff canisters are placed), but the wiring and switches/boxes on the flight deck as well. In the mid to late ‘90s, the AN/ALE-40 began being replaced by the newer AN/ALE-47. Fortunately for the modeler, there are no external differences between the AN/ALE 40 and AN/ALE 47 systems as they used the same size buckets and locations.

Dispenser

Standard procedure is if there are no countermeasures being carried, the buckets are covered with a blanking plates. One plate covers two buckets. If modeling them plated over, a simple line scribing would be sufficient. All you would have to be concerned about is the two fairings in the forward locations and the shape of the pylon sites. Here is a pic of one type canister that the Herc uses. All of the types used by the Herc have the same external dimensions: how it is segmented internally depends upon what kind of countermeasure is being used. This particular one is designed for 1” by 1” expendables.

Here is a pic of canisters loaded in the buckets at the C-130 armpit location.

Armpits with the plates on

Beaver tail w plates on

Pylon w plates on (actually rectangular, camera distorts it to trapezoid shape)

Forward location (plated over)

Forward location (Fairing damaged in air to air collision w/C-27J)

Hope this helps,

Jay

Edited July 31, 2016 by Jay Barfoot

[Paolo6691]

Forward location (Fairing damaged in air to air collision w/C-27J)

Hope this helps,

Jay

Air to Air Collision with C-27J!!!

That is quite scary

[Paolo6691]

Try https://designer.home.xs4all.nl/models/nf-5/nf5a-dispenser.htm

Regards

Tim

Hello Tim

Thank you very much for the link, I was looking for something like that for a long time, I need to check but I am quite sure it is the exact same system scabbed on the back of Italian F-104S

Thanks a lot

Paolo

[Jay Barfoot]

Air to Air Collision with C-27J!!!

That is quite scary

Yeah, you could say that. More pics here: http://photo.fayobserver.com/?ssid=3663&sid=1

[ReccePhreak]

Hi Larry,

Depending upon the model and country of C-130 you’re modeling, the C-130 defensive systems layout can be quite different. If you’re looking at a “vanilla” (non-special purpose) C-130H3 USAF trash hauler that your Cheyenne Guard Herc pic depicts, there are actually 22 countermeasure dispensers located in 7 areas around the aircraft. I’ve marked your Cheyenne Herc pic with them.

The AN/ALE-40 is the entire dispensing system consisting not only of the dispensers (the buckets into which the flare/chaff canisters are placed), but the wiring and switches/boxes on the flight deck as well. In the mid to late ‘90s, the AN/ALE-40 began being replaced by the newer AN/ALE-47. Fortunately for the modeler, there are no external differences between the AN/ALE 40 and AN/ALE 47 systems as they used the same size buckets and locations.

Dispenser

Standard procedure is if there are no countermeasures being carried, the buckets are covered with a blanking plates. One plate covers two buckets. If modeling them plated over, a simple line scribing would be sufficient. All you would have to be concerned about is the two fairings in the forward locations and the shape of the pylon sites. Here is a pic of one type canister that the Herc uses. All of the types used by the Herc have the same external dimensions: how it is segmented internally depends upon what kind of countermeasure is being used. This particular one is designed for 1” by 1” expendables.

Here is a pic of canisters loaded in the buckets at the C-130 armpit location.

Armpits with the plates on

Beaver tail w plates on

Pylon w plates on (actually rectangular, camera distorts it to trapezoid shape)

Forward location (plated over)

Forward location (Fairing damaged in air to air collision w/C-27J)

Hope this helps,

Jay

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the VERY informative reply!!

I am modelling a "vanilla" C-130H from Maxwell ARB, basing it on pictures that the person's wife loaned us. He is a Flight Engineer on the plane, and doesn't know about the model I am building. I do know that his aircraft has the fuel tank pylon dispensers and the ones by the nose wheel wells. The supplied pics weren't detailed enough for me to notice the armpit dispensers or the beavertail dispensers. I was able to see added warning antenna bumps on the nose & tail. I didn't plan on adding loaded dispensers, as that would add to the cost of the model (unless I can find some cheap "bucket" decals). Plus, it would be a WAG on my part as to how each bucket was loaded. Do you know if anybody does 1/72 ALE-40/47 bucket decals? The only option I can find is this PE set, which doesn't have pre-painted "buckets".

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BRL72079

I am basing a lot of my updating/detailing info on the various C-130 types on display at the Special Operations Air Park at Hurlburt Field. I did notice that their pylon dispenser fairings don't look long enough to hold the buckets. They fair straight back into the pylon at a sharp angle.

Thanks again for your enlightened reply.

Larry

Edited July 31, 2016 by ReccePhreak

[Jay Barfoot]

Hi Larry,

Yeah, the Spec Ops birds almost always had different equipment and configurations. i wouldn't rely on them for modeling a "vanilla" trash hauler. I'm here at Warner Robins, GA so I'll see if I can get by the Museum tomorrow and take some pics of the pylon dispensers on the one they have displayed. It's an E model but should be configured the same as Maxwell's H2s,

The only other aftermarket dispenser set I know of is Tecnik 7201. It's also photo etch and is long out of production. My recommendation would be to model them with the cover plates installed. Beavertail and armpits would only require simple line scribing. That would leave only the pylon dispenser assembly and the fairing for the forward dispensers to scratch if they aren't supplied by the kit. I was attached for flying to the Maxwell unit for 7 years (02 thru 09) so I can assure you they have all the dispensing locations.

The receiver antenna for the AAR-47, ALR-69 and LAIRCM are the assorted bumps/lumps around the front, on the beaver tail, and underneath the fuselage. The large bulges on the side of the fuselage aft of the troop doors are for the LAIRCM transmitters. Again, I don't know what the kit contains.

A good site for C-130 pics is here: http://www.c-130hercules.net, It has pics of just about every tail# built.

Jay

[ReccePhreak]

Hi Larry,

Yeah, the Spec Ops birds almost always had different equipment and configurations. i wouldn't rely on them for modeling a "vanilla" trash hauler. I'm here at Warner Robins, GA so I'll see if I can get by the Museum tomorrow and take some pics of the pylon dispensers on the one they have displayed. It's an E model but should be configured the same as Maxwell's H2s,

The only other aftermarket dispenser set I know of is Tecnik 7201. It's also photo etch and is long out of production. My recommendation would be to model them with the cover plates installed. Beavertail and armpits would only require simple line scribing. That would leave only the pylon dispenser assembly and the fairing for the forward dispensers to scratch if they aren't supplied by the kit. I was attached for flying to the Maxwell unit for 7 years (02 thru 09) so I can assure you they have all the dispensing locations.

The receiver antenna for the AAR-47, ALR-69 and LAIRCM are the assorted bumps/lumps around the front, on the beaver tail, and underneath the fuselage. The large bulges on the side of the fuselage aft of the troop doors are for the LAIRCM transmitters. Again, I don't know what the kit contains.

A good site for C-130 pics is here: http://www.c-130hercules.net, It has pics of just about every tail# built.

Jay

Hi Jay,

I got the LAIRCM transmitters from Spectre Resin, they look really nice. For the other antenna, I will just have to scratch build them, based on the photos I have. The fuel tank pylon fairings don't look too hard to build, much easier that the ones by the nose wheel well.

I went on Airliners.net, to see if I could find high quaity photos of the underside of a vanilla C-130H, in order to figure out all the underside antennas, but all the pics I found were of C-130J models. Their under fuselage antenna arrangement is quite different than the bird I am working on. I will check out the site you mentioned. I have been there before, but it was awhile back.

Larry

[Hook]

I need to check but I am quite sure it is the exact same system scabbed on the back of Italian F-104S

Yes,it's the same dispenser. Some Marineflieger F/RF-104G's were fitted with them as well, some pics about halfway down:

http://www.rolfferch.de/F104G/html/sondereinbauten.html

Cheers,

Andre

[Jay Barfoot]

Hi Larry,

Here are some pics I took of the pylon dispenser today. Hopefully they're sufficient as I was racing to get them after work before a TStorm rolled in.

[ReccePhreak]

Hi Larry,

Here are some pics I took of the pylon dispenser today. Hopefully they're sufficient as I was racing to get them after work before a TStorm rolled in.

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the great shots. The triangular shape of the fairing confuses me though. I don't see how the rectangular ALE-40/47 canisters will fit into them.

Larry

[Finn]

Larry here is another view of the pylon dispenser, unfortunately it's only a front view, there is no rear vew but it looks different than the one above:

edit here is one from the rear, a bit dark but details can be seen:

Jari

Edited August 2, 2016 by Finn

[ReccePhreak]

Larry here is another view of the pylon dispenser, unfortunately it's only a front view, there is no rear vew but it looks different than the one above:

edit here is one from the rear, a bit dark but details can be seen:

Jari

Jari,

Thanks for the pics. Now if I could only find some pics with the pylon dispensers loaded.

Larry

[Finn]

This one looks like it has a couple of blanking panels on:

Jari

[Jay Barfoot]

Hi Larry,

Have you seen these at Hannant's https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ASQ72090?

Also, the dispensers at the rear of the external tank pylons face aft: not left or right. They are arranged side-by-side but with each dispenser oriented vertically (unlike the horizontal orientation of the armpits). I hope the drawing below help clears it up. I don't have the exact measurements, but I'd estimate the dimensions of the blanking plate to be 14-15" wide and 9" tall. Remember to take into the account the width of the pylon that the triangle fairing blends into. If you don't, it can create a visual illusion of the fairing being shorter and more highly angled than it actually is. Also, don't forget the canisters are only 9" deep so there's ample room for them to fit.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Jay Barfoot

[ReccePhreak]

Hi Larry,

Have you seen these at Hannant's https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ASQ72090?

Also, the dispensers at the rear of the external tank pylons face aft: not left or right. They are arranged side-by-side but with each dispenser oriented vertically (unlike the horizontal orientation of the armpits). I hope the drawing below help clears it up. I don't have the exact measurements, but I'd estimate the dimensions of the blanking plate to be 14-15" wide and 9" tall. Remember to take into the account the width of the pylon that the triangle fairing blends into. If you don't, it can create a visual illusion of the fairing being shorter and more highly angled than it actually is. Also, don't forget the canisters are only 9" deep so there's ample room for them to fit.

Hi Jay,

Thanks for that info. Those must be new items, because I didn't see them at Hannants when my friend ordered the other Attack Squadron C-130 items. Of course, Hannants is out of stock, so I may have my friend order them from Arma Hobby.

I know the chaff buckets on the pylons are vertical, as the planes at Hurlburt Field's airpark show the blanking plates. Speaking of blanking plates, the planes at Hurlburt that have the dispensers in the U-shaped fairings only show 2 plates on each side, not the 4 you mentioned in your post # 8.

So now I am confused as to the number of buckets.

The only detailed info I am still looking for is some good, clear photos of the various antennas & "bumps" on the underside and top of the plane, so I can scratch build them.

Best Regards,

Larry

Edited August 14, 2016 by ReccePhreak

[Jay Barfoot]

You may be correct about the forward dispensers. When I retired in '09, there were only two inside the "U" shaped fairing but there were discussions about expanding them to four. In the pic of the damaged fairing I posted, it looked like it had been expanded, so I'd assumed it had been. I can't verify that it has been, though.

Some of the antenna underneath belong to the ALR-69A(V) radar warning receiver (RWR). Unfortunately, I don't have any good pics of it available and my Dash-1 is packed up and in storage.

The items are new from Hannant's newletter this morning. There were 2 on hand when I notified you. They must've sold out in a hurry.

[ReccePhreak]

You may be correct about the forward dispensers. When I retired in '09, there were only two inside the "U" shaped fairing but there were discussions about expanding them to four. In the pic of the damaged fairing I posted, it looked like it had been expanded, so I'd assumed it had been. I can't verify that it has been, though.

Some of the antenna underneath belong to the ALR-69A(V) radar warning receiver (RWR). Unfortunately, I don't have any good pics of it available and my Dash-1 is packed up and in storage.

The items are new from Hannant's newletter this morning. There were 2 on hand when I notified you. They must've sold out in a hurry.

I have 2 sets of the following Brengun PE sets on order from Hannants:

They were the last 2 sets they had. If they work out for me, then I can hold off ordering the Attack Squadron sets.

I sure do wish that Eduard had released their color chaff PE sets in 1/72. They would be perfect for my use. They only do it in 1/48 & 1/32. I will probable get a few 1/48 sets, for when I start on one of my 1/48 C-130 kits.

I think the main antenna assembly I need info on might be the ALR-69A(V) radar warning receiver (RWR). Is that the one that looks like a weird shaped flat box, with 4 black spherical antennas on it?

Larry

Edited August 14, 2016 by ReccePhreak

[Jay Barfoot]

I have 2 sets of the following Brengun PE sets on order from Hannants:

They were the last 2 sets they had. If they work out for me, then I can hold off ordering the Attack Squadron sets.

I sure do wish that Eduard had released their color chaff PE sets in 1/72. They would be perfect for my use. They only do it in 1/48 & 1/32. I will probable get a few 1/48 sets, for when I start on one of my 1/48 C-130 kits.

I think the main antenna assembly I need info on might be the ALR-69A(V) radar warning receiver (RWR). Is that the one that looks like a weird shaped flat box, with 4 black spherical antennas on it?

Larry

That would be the one.