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Is a 1/16 Panzer II Luchs conversion to Ausf C possible ?


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Hi,

weird question, I need to explain.

Basically I am an aircraft modeller of rc scale sailplanes and the occasional boat, so I am way outside of my comfort / knowledge zone.

For a specific project I need a Panzer IIc for radio control, preferably with working suspension (not essential) - it won't be driven much.

It needs to be 1/16 scale or larger.

Are there any rumours of a IIc in the pipeline ?

I'm aware of the 1/6 Dragon model but didn't really want to go that large or expensive (I have other toys !)

I'm told Verlinden did a 1/15 resin but that its very hard to find, not a great kit and not ideal to motorise.

The only game in town seems to be the recent 1/16 Luchs but this has the later roadwheels - however they could be hidden by side armour I suppose, as the model will generally be seen from above, even on the move.

My detailed tank knowledge is poor - are there any other kits that could provide the earlier road wheels and would the L tracks work with them ?

Is the turret on the C and L basically the same ?

Is the hull basically the same ? (I have the impression the rear end is different.

I am an average modeller but prepared to tackle anything but as mentioned I have no research experience with tanks for this one -off project.

Any and all advice greatfully received - even if its to say bite the bullet and go 1/6 ! in fact does anyone produce a gearbox/motor pack for the Dragon model ?

Thanks

Paul

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In my understanding the luchs has overlapping road wheels like a Tiger or Panther while the normal one had different, normal wheels (pics follow)

but i could still be completly wrong

http://ww2photo.se/tanks/d/pz2/luchs/02162.jpg

Luchs

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/pz2c.jpg

Normal panzer 2

Also are dimensions different as The Lucy's is shorter but higher as the ausf c

So it's your decision how much you want change

Greetings Levin

Edited by Levin
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Long story,

in the 1980's I restored a two seat DFS Kranich glider. It is not very well known in the military world that 80 of these were converted to carry infantry ammunition in the rear seat. the purpose was to make spot landings alongside troops landed by parachute or DFS.230 troop glider (as at Eban Emael) to resupply them, as part of Operation Seelowe, the proposed invasion of Britain.

Since then I have had an interest in Seelowe/Sealion and in the amphibious Scwimmpanzer. So I would like to make a radio controlled Panzer IIC Schwimmpanzer with driven tracks and water propulsion - an ideal first tank project !!!!!

Incidentally - anyone have the side sponsons (Schwimmkorper) in 1/35 which I am told were issued by Azimut or Ironside many moons ago, although these don't appear in the lists of what they produced.

Paul.

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The Ausf L has (IIRC) almost nothing in common with the Ausf C:

Pz.II Ausf L:

sd_kfz_123_pz_kpfw_ii_ausf_l_luchs_ii-35

Pz.II Ausf C (Early):

sd_kfz_121_pz_kpfw_ii_ausf_c-45030.jpg

AFAIK the only parts they have in common would be the jack & other stowed tools. :nerd:

Operation Sealion was utterly implausible, Germany was simply incapable of launching a cross channel invasion, any attempt to do so would have ended in disaster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)

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Thanks for the comparative drawings - I had the impression that the turret and basic hull were the same............. obviously utterly wrong !

Looks like I have two options - the Dragon 1/6 or wait and see if a 1/16 Panzer IIc materialises - any rumours. ?

I have already sourced a 1/16 Panda Hobby PzKpfw.38(t) to build the experimental schwimmpanzer based on that tank.

Although a full motorisation and digital sound aftermarket kit is available for the Panda model, I'm taking the view that the long overhanging bow provides the model with such minimal ground clearance on anything but a dead flat surface that it isn't a very practical proposition as a driver.

The model sits so low in the water that it will be very difficult to seal it effectively and an internal tube will need to be added to the hull, extending vertically as far up inside the turret as possible. The radio will need to be in this area, so turret traverse and gun elevation are not possible.

Consequently it will be built as a pure sailing model - which should turn a few heads at scale boat steering competitions !

I have a wide ranging interest in WW2 and Operation Sealion is an enigma. It is often forgotten that Hitler did not originally plan to invade all of France and that the revised plan led to the Germans arriving at Dunkirk with no prior plan for what to do next. It was obvious that any invasion had to be mounted quickly before the British had the opportunity to recover.

It remains unclear whether Sealion was serious or a spectacular bluff - only Hitler knew the truth. What can be said with certainty, is that enormous resources were being poured into preparation at the same time the initial planning was being carried out for Barbarossa. Clearly the cobbled together landing craft - converted river barges - were not up to the job.

I am aware of the Sandhurst war game that showed Sealion would have failed. It has been argued that not all options were explored but what ifs are difficult to argue.

It can be said that if Hitler had decided to go for it, then Sealion would have been launched despite the general staffs concerns. The ability to deliver a second wave of troops (after dragging unpowered barges off the beach at the next tide) is very doubtful, as is the ability to resupply ammunition.

War is unpredictable and with a significant element of luck. If the (then) best and most experienced army in the world was landed on the beaches of England, with no prospect of retreat, then there might well have been some prospect of success - but at the cost of a phyric victory.

Of course we will never know and I quite agree that the odds were strongly against success.

However, the speed at which the Schwimmpanzer were developed is quite impressive and despite that they seemed to be more seaworthy than the swimmi9ng Shermans.

Paul

Regardless of if it could have succeeded or not, there is still considerable doubt whether it was serious or one of the greatest bluffs of all time. It can be said that to the highest levels of the General staff, every effort was made to prepare and make it work.

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The war would have ended a lot sooner if they'd tried! :winkgrin:

The advantage of the Sherman DD is its low profile, from the shore it can be mistaken for a raft.....By the time it drops the screens it's already too late, it's ashore & shooting. :fight:

The German swimming tanks by contrast look like a couple of barges tied together with a tank in the middle.....A very tempting target for a shore based battery. :shutup:

I may have some references that could be of use.....I'll check and get back to you by PM. :coolio:

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Thanks Sgt,

references are few and far between. Oddly the Panzer IIc variant of which 52 were built, seems to have had only the prototype photographed - no photos of them en-masse during training. The tanks were certainly converted as there are numerous photos of them with the sponson connecting brackets on the hull.

Any new infor would be most welcome.

Paul

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