French Jags that hit Libya radar

[RMP2]

I guess it was during the cold war era, so I popped this question in here:

Does anyone know, or even better - have photos - of what the full load out was of the Jaguars that were sent in to hit Libyan radars with Martel missiles?

Im guessing its a AR Martel on the centreline, a pair of fuel tanks inboard and the French Jag ECM pod on one side and/or Phimat/Magic outboard on the wings?

Google isnt helping me much at all with details, could be my search methods though.

Any help, as always, is much appreciated.

Forgot - were the Jags involved in desert camo too? If so, which of the schemes was it? The KH instructions arent giving much away....

Edited July 22, 2016 by RMP2

[Antoine]

Martel on the centreline, two tanks inboard, and the usual pair Barracuda/Phimat outboard.

No Magic needed, as the Jags had an escort of Mirage F.1.

Camo was the usual two tone sand/brown, the three tone coming a bit latter.

The launcher was Jaguar A100.

You'll get plenty of informations from Google typing this:

Jaguar martel ouadi doum

[Hook]

When were the conformal wing / fuselage "armpit" chaff / flare packs introduced on French Jags?

Cheers,

Andre

[RMP2]

When were the conformal wing / fuselage "armpit" chaff / flare packs introduced on French Jags?

Cheers,

Andre

I was just looking for that info myself.

The dispenser is called Alkan 5020, originally designed to drop grenades apparently and I can find photos of it fitted to Desert Storm Jag A's, but no Chad aircraft so Im assuming its a late 80s or Desert Storm fitment...?

Martel on the centreline, two tanks inboard, and the usual pair Barracuda/Phimat outboard.

No Magic needed, as the Jags had an escort of Mirage F.1.

Camo was the usual two tone sand/brown, the three tone coming a bit latter.

The launcher was Jaguar A100.

You'll get plenty of informations from Google typing this:

Jaguar martel ouadi doum

Cheers Antoine, thats set me right.

The only thing I can add to that is the aircraft (A100) was marked 3-XO I think and the pilot was Lt Wurtz.

And here is is - (without Alkan under the starboard wing at least).

[RMP2]

When were the conformal wing / fuselage "armpit" chaff / flare packs introduced on French Jags?

Cheers,

Andre

From 1990 according to this

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234929706-jaguar-a-kitty-hawk-148-out-of-the-box-build-review/page-15

[Antoine]

Phimat starboard, Barracuda port.

There was also a tailcone chaff launcher.

The jaguar fleet saw the addition of Alkan 5020 from the middle of the eighties. In my opinion, it was due to the loss of Cne CROCI, shot down during a recce, while overflying a lybian armored column, by a combination of MANPADS and AAA. It was in 1984 IIRC.

With Alkan chaff launcher in place, Jags could get rid of the phimat and gain a Magic in its place.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Antoine

[RMP2]

The Alkan dispensers are not included in the Kitty Hawk Jaguar A kit, just for the record. Neither are correct decals - hogs head tail markings are in the wrong colours and the roundels shouldnt have a yellow circle around the edge - that was phased out in the late 70s I think.

Berna Decals 48096 looks like a good start - https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BER48096

Just need to print some codes out for A100/3-XO.

[exdraken]

maybe these decals from FFSMC are also of help to you:

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/FFSMC-Productions-Decals-1-48-SEPECAT-Jaguar-A-set-n-1-/291314511242?hash=item43d3b2ad8a:g:W20AAMXQgb1RNLu4

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/FFSMC-Productions-Decals-1-48-SEPECAT-Jaguar-A-set-n-2-/291314512504?hash=item43d3b2b278:g:PJ8AAOxy14VRNMKo

[RMP2]

maybe these decals from FFSMC are also of help to you:

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/FFSMC-Productions-Decals-1-48-SEPECAT-Jaguar-A-set-n-1-/291314511242?hash=item43d3b2ad8a:g:W20AAMXQgb1RNLu4

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/FFSMC-Productions-Decals-1-48-SEPECAT-Jaguar-A-set-n-2-/291314512504?hash=item43d3b2b278:g:PJ8AAOxy14VRNMKo

Thank you.

Yep, spotted those last night - they are looking good, bit pricey, but might have to bite the bullet. Theyve got stores decals too which is always nice.

I cant find any more images of the sheet though to check if the roundels have an outer yellow ring or not, I cant quite tell and can only see them at all on Set 1 and its Set 2 that I would be wanting.

The Berna Decals set doesnt have yellow rings on the roundels from what I see, are cheaper, but less comprehensive.... Tricky!

[exdraken]

found those:

https://www.facebook.com/FFSMC.Productions/photos/a.418274971586952.101518.174617482619370/418275041586945/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/FFSMC.Productions/photos/a.418712571543192.101598.174617482619370/418713081543141/?type=3&theater

just contact Chris from FFSMC productions directly , I once bought their also excellent Etendard sheet, he was very helpful!

http://ffsmc-productions.com/en/

good luck!

[RMP2]

found those:

https://www.facebook.com/FFSMC.Productions/photos/a.418274971586952.101518.174617482619370/418275041586945/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/FFSMC.Productions/photos/a.418712571543192.101598.174617482619370/418713081543141/?type=3&theater

just contact Chris from FFSMC productions directly , I once bought their also excellent Etendard sheet, he was very helpful!

http://ffsmc-productions.com/en/

good luck!

Oh man, thanks for that, Ive been searching for quite a while to try to find out exactly whats what on the sheet. Very much appreciated, thank you.

[RMP2]

Ive sent Chris a message on BookFace asking about stock and buying directly (maybe save a few quid that way). Thanks again.

[RMP2]

Ive sent Chris a message on BookFace asking about stock and buying directly (maybe save a few quid that way). Thanks again.

Ordered.

[Antoine]

A100 was maybe 3-XO at the end of its service life, but are you sure it was in 1986/1987???

[RMP2]

A100 was maybe 3-XO at the end of its service life, but are you sure it was in 1986/1987???

No, I am most definitely not! I am not at all familiar with French Air Force stuff and had made a great big assumption that A100 had always been 3-XO.

If anyone can help with that I would be most grateful as Im working to sort all the decals for it now, some bought, some drawn and printed at home which is a bit scary!

Seems I am good at opening cans of worms....

[RMP2]

Well, here is A100 allegedly during DS, but thats Chad camo isnt it...?

And I thought EC 3/3 were the Martel Specialists? I clearly need some help I reckon!

[squezzer]

Ltt Wutz is the only french pilot to fire an AS-37 in a real operation. It seems that his bird was The A23 over Ouadi Doum. It is a pity my books are packed (I m move to a new location by the end of the week) because I m pretty sure that I have the answer in the wonderful "Jaguar, le felin franco-britannique en action" by Alain Vezin, a former jag jockey.

By the way, it is not the real A100 portrayed upper in this post. The nose is lacking the TAV 38 laser range finder that equipped the french single seater from the A85 to the A160.

Edited July 25, 2016 by squezzer

[RMP2]

Ltt Wutz is the only french pilot to fire an AS-37 in a real operation. It seems that his bird was The A23 over Ouadi Doum. It is a pity my books are packed (I m move to a new location by the end of the week) because I m pretty sure that I have the answer in the wonderful "Jaguar, le felin franco-britannique en action" by Alain Vezin, a former jag jockey.

By the way, it is not the real A100 portrayed upper in this post. The nose is lacking the TAV 38 laser range finder that equipped the french single seater from the A85 to the A160.

Very good point regards the nose laser.

A23? Thats interesting as I have found a few references to A100, but maybe they all got their info from the same source...?

Could anyone at least confirm the squadron/EC as I have just ordered decals for this but could change my order if I am quick enough.

[squezzer]

For sure, it was EC 3/3 "Ardennes". The squadron primary missionwas to shoot radars. It was the only squadron of the 3eme Escadre (n°3 wing) to fly the Jaguar in that mission. It was assigned at Nancy-Ochey air base alongside 1/3 Navarre and 2/3 Champagne squadrons operating Mirages IIIE (and AS-37 as well). It was back in the 80's. I saw them buzzing aroud my home when I was a child.

There is A16 on the sheet from Berna decal. According to then squadron leader Antoine, it was the bird he flew when he led the mission to Ouadi Doum. A16 and A23 were the 2 birds from EC 3/3 deployed in Africa at the time. The only thing you have to check is the color of the band under the hog's head. It varied according to the flight and could be different from one side of the fin to the other (at the time French Air Force had 2 flights and 15 aircraft per fighter squadron, 3 flights and 20 aircraft per squadron since the mid 90's).

Edited July 25, 2016 by squezzer

[RMP2]

Thanks. So the Boar on the tail fin would be correct, thats right?

Im sorry, I am not at all good with French aircraft or their squadrons/wings and markings.

[RMP2]

I have found an account of the first, unsuccessful anti radar attempt:

French - http://www.vieillestiges.com/HistoireRecits/html/Ouadi-Doum.html

English translation - https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vieillestiges.com%2FHistoireRecits%2Fhtml%2FOuadi-Doum.html&edit-text=

[Antoine]

Aircraft were not replaced on detachment at the same time as the pilots, so you can have a 3e EC pilot flying an 11e EC aircraft.

11e EC was responsible for providing the aircraft before 1987, and the first time 3e EC was asked to participate with their Jaguars was just some time before the raid. They send two aircraft, A16 and A23.

A16 was the one that dropped the AN52 on Mururoa, and the detachment commander wanted to fly it for the mission, planned for the end of december. But this was not to be, mission canceled, and a new team flew the historic one on january 1987.

Most of the sources agree about A100 being the shooter.

[RMP2]

So A100 was flying with EC 3/3 when it took the shot? Or....

I am quite confused at the moment! And have EUR25 riding on the correct decals....

Edited July 25, 2016 by RMP2

[squezzer]

Thanks. So the Boar on the tail fin would be correct, thats right?

Im sorry, I am not at all good with French aircraft or their squadrons/wings and markings.

Easy: the number is the wing (you need a 3), the first letter is for the squadron (3/3 is the 3rd squadron of th 3rd wing), the second letter is given to the aircraft when assigned to the squadron. All of them can change if the aircraft is assigned to another unit. A23 is the serial number given to the aircraft at the factory. It never changes. Serial numbers are not really under military regulation and depends on the manufacturer.

On each side of the fin, there is usually a flight insigna. An aircraft can bear the insigna of A fligh on one side and and the insigna of B flight on the other. Sometime, there is no flight insigna but the squadron insigna. For 3/3, you 'll have a boar head on each side but i can't remember if the band was a different color for each flight as it is today (thee are red, blue and green bands or the 3 at the same time on Mirages 2000D).

[squezzer]

In another pilot account, the AS-37 shooter was A23 but I can discriminate from A100 in the other pilot account. I can't access to my books at the moment.

what is sure, is that the pilot was LTT Wurtz from the EC 3/3. The aircraft could have been from the 11th Wing as all the Jaguar As were AS -37 capable but I ve always heard it was a bird from the 3/3.