What are the external differences between a Strikemaster and a Jet Provost?

[Max Headroom]

Another nice one.

John

Is that Sudanese?

Trevor

[71chally]

124 was a Jet Provost Mk.51 of the Sudanese Air force.

There are some great overseas schemes for Jet Provost T.3/4s, sold as Mk.51/52, including Iraq, Yemen, Ceylon, Kuwait & Venezuela.

The Sudanese also had T.5s as the T.55.

[Wez]

124 was a Jet Provost Mk.51 of the Sudanese Air force.

There are some great overseas schemes for Jet Provost T.3/4s, sold as Mk.51/52, including Iraq, Yemen, Ceylon, Kuwait & Venezuela.

The Sudanese also had T.5s as the T.55.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[canberra kid]

124 was a Jet Provost Mk.51 of the Sudanese Air force.

There are some great overseas schemes for Jet Provost T.3/4s, sold as Mk.51/52, including Iraq, Yemen, Ceylon, Kuwait & Venezuela.

The Sudanese also had T.5s as the T.55.

To that end James here are some more

First up I'm not sure where this one is from, but I suspect that when it got there snow would not have been an issue ever again

This South Yemon you can see the extra armour plate on the cockpit side

If I've got any wrong let me know and I'll correct the file, I'm only going my what it says on the photo.

John

Edited July 20, 2016 by canberra kid

[Greg in OK]

Wow! Those are some GREAT photos!

Thank you.

Greg in OK

[tempestfan]

What a smashing selection, thanks for sharing, John ! Now I know what to do with the dozen or so Airfix JP5 kits...

Should it read "YemEn" instead of YemAn or YemOn, perhaps ?

The gun pods on the Botswanan bird look interesting, the barrels sticking out look a bit like good old fashioned Hispanos as on the Hurri IIc. What's inside ?

[Hook]

The gun pods on the Botswanan bird look interesting, the barrels sticking out look a bit like good old fashioned Hispanos as on the Hurri IIc. What's inside ?

The front look rather similar to the GIAT / DEFA conformal 30 mm cannon pods as used on the Macchi MB.339. Italeri's recent repop of the Supermodell kit with Argentinian decals have them included.

HTH,

Andre

[Don McIntyre]

A 1/48th Strikemaster with all those foreign marks would be great! Another natural for Airfix, IMHO...

[modelling minion]

Excellent pictures John, thanks for sharing them.

The top one from the last batch you posted is another Sudanese aircraft, this time a Jet Provost T.55 which I believe is pretty much identical to an RAF T.5. It's a nice scheme and I wouldn't mind having a crack at one myself in the future, it's also on the Xtradecal Strikemaster sheet where it is refered to as a Strikemaster Mk.90 which I think is incorrect as I think the Sudanese order for Strikemasters never materialised and the aircraft were later sold to Ecuador. I know the aircraft in the picture has shell discharge chutes and some other Strkey attributes but the aircraft is a T.55 as they came with these fitments as an option.

Craig.

[71chally]

That Ecuador JP pic is the first official reference I've seen to the T.53, filled a gap!

The photos show just what a pretty and varied collection the JP & Strikey made in foreign operators hands.

Edited July 21, 2016 by 71chally

[stever219]

Fritag, thanks for the explanation of the 5/5A/5B differences.

Am I right in thinking that the elevators differ between the 3 and 4, with the latter having similar units to the 5 and the former similar to the 1 and earlier Piston Provost?

[Wez]

Fritag, thanks for the explanation of the 5/5A/5B differences.

Am I right in thinking that the elevators differ between the 3 and 4, with the latter having similar units to the 5 and the former similar to the 1 and earlier Piston Provost?

Not heard that before, I was always led to believe the Mk4 was simply a Mk3/3A with a more powerful Viper so I'm interested if this was the case, I suspect I can find some old Airfix JP5 elevators if needed.

[canberra kid]

What a smashing selection, thanks for sharing, John ! Now I know what to do with the dozen or so Airfix JP5 kits...

Should it read "YemEn" instead of YemAn or YemOn, perhaps ?

The gun pods on the Botswanan bird look interesting, the barrels sticking out look a bit like good old fashioned Hispanos as on the Hurri IIc. What's inside ?

Thanks for picking up my mistake, spelling never was my thing The gun pod is very interesting, I've had a good look through the info I have, but there is no indication as to what they are. I found this not too clear photo from a test firing and another nice air to air.

John

[canberra kid]

A 1/48th Strikemaster with all those foreign marks would be great! Another natural for Airfix, IMHO...

Very true Don, with the Sword(?) one coming out Airfix may not be so keen, but you never know!

John

Excellent pictures John, thanks for sharing them.

The top one from the last batch you posted is another Sudanese aircraft, this time a Jet Provost T.55 which I believe is pretty much identical to an RAF T.5. It's a nice scheme and I wouldn't mind having a crack at one myself in the future, it's also on the Xtradecal Strikemaster sheet where it is refered to as a Strikemaster Mk.90 which I think is incorrect as I think the Sudanese order for Strikemasters never materialised and the aircraft were later sold to Ecuador. I know the aircraft in the picture has shell discharge chutes and some other Strkey attributes but the aircraft is a T.55 as they came with these fitments as an option.

Craig.

Thanks for the info Craig!

John

[canberra kid]

That Ecuador JP pic is the first official reference I've seen to the T.53, filled a gap!

The photos show just what a pretty and varied collection the JP & Strikey made in foreign operators hands.

Unfortunately James this is the only photo session in the collection, it has some nice colour and black and white shots air to air and on the ground.

John

[Fritag]

Fritag, thanks for the explanation of the 5/5A/5B differences.

Am I right in thinking that the elevators differ between the 3 and 4, with the latter having similar units to the 5 and the former similar to the 1 and earlier Piston Provost?

Good question. Don't know

Dredging old memories from flying training I wasn't aware of there being any differences between elevators on the Mk3A and the Mk5A - I don't have any personal experience of there Mk4.

However when I built 1/72 Mk3A and a Mk5A recently I looked at lots of photographs and there was a difference in the shape of the elevator horn balances between the 3s and the 5s.

I'm afraid I don't know when this mod was introduced or if it was unique to the Mk5 series or even if the horizontal talilplanes were interchangeable.

Maybe someone out there knows?

[Ascoteer]

Fritag is correct in that the 'A' in JP 5A meant an avionics upgrade. Specifically this was VOR, DME and ILS, the JP5 originally having Rebecca.

WRT the nose strakes, these were fitted to prevent spins becoming oscillatory when the tip tanks were removed. Generally speaking the update to 5A coincided with tip tank removal (since the tanks were not required for the standard 1hr sortie lengths of BFTS).

Strangely enough the JP5A retained the fuel tank contents selector switches of the JP5 - a major pitfall for students was inadvertently knocking the WING/MAIN switch to the wing position then getting a real shock when doing a FOEEL check and seeing the contents guage reading zero (ask me how I know this)!

Thus an aircraft with tanks but without strakes is a JP5.

Turning to those aircraft used by 6FTS RAF Finningley in the Navigator training role, these were operated by LLADTS (Low Level and Air Defence Training Sqn) and were unofficially referred to as JP5Bs. If fact they were a mixture of 5s and 5As, so some had no strakes (the 5s) and some had the strakes (the 5As) but all were fitted with the tip tanks so as to cater for the longer sortie lengths involved.

The reason they were all refered to as 5Bs was due to the fact that they had a completely different avionics fit from either the 5 or the 5A. Specifically they all had twin DME. Some had ILS, some did not (as evidenced by the duck's bill glideslope aerial on the nose).

WRT Strikemaster, IIRC it had taller oleos than did the JP5.

[Wez]

WRT Strikemaster, IIRC it had taller oleos than did the JP5.

Which would of course make sense to cater for the heavier weapons loads, I just wonder how much that would be obvious in 1/72nd?

[71chally]

According to most sources the Strikemaster had a shorter undercarriage than the JP, which doesn't seem to make sense.

Personally I can't spot the difference.

[canberra kid]

It's hard to tell, but there doesn't appear to be much if any difference in stroke between the JP and Strikmaster. It may have been beefed up though?

John

[Meatbox8]

I've quickly skim--read the thread and as far as I can see no one has mentioned that Sword Models do a JP5 and a Strikemaster. They both look really nice but I don't know their availability Stateside. Apologies if they have already been mentioned.

[tempestfan]

But a taller u/c and a longer stroke are not the same and do not necessarily correlate, or do they ? A taller u/c would give more vertical room for the stores, but a longer stroke would serve to better cater for higher weights on landing (probably). In this case, possibly both together would make (have made) sense. A shorter u/c may be better suited to semi-prepared strips being used, but OTOH would bring the undersides closer to the gravel or whatever.

[Graham Boak]

Taller main undercarriage legs would mean that the Strikemaster sat nose down compared to the JP, unless coupled to a longer nose leg too. I don't think that either was true, but am open to correction Longer stroke oleos may bring in train ground clearance problems. A stiffer undercarriage would cater for heavier weights, but need not differ in length or stroke. There's no benefit I can see from a shorter undercarriage on unprepared strips - I agree with tempestfan there - but changes to the tyre pressure and size would be beneficial.

[Dave Fleming]

The Airfix kit has about 3 times the parts count of the MB, and while admittedly much of this is down on the JP5 and Strikemaster alternatives (with some 30 parts alone accounted for by the latter's underwing stores), the fact remains the Airfix kit is infinitely better detailed and much more refined. The MB IMHO is not one of their better kits - this even extends to the box art which show Matra-SNEB pods which are not provided, instead you get two feeble vertically-stacked rocket arrays. In addition, I have seen the MB go on ebay for quite ridiculous prices, so if a JP5 is wanted, the Airfix would seem the better proposition all round (as it has just about everything needed).

I built the MB kit as a JP5B back in the 80s when the Airfix kits were as rare as hen's teeth and even more expensive! IMO it's biggest problem (as either a Strikemaster or JP) is the solid nose, without the clear landing/navigation light cover.

Regarding the JP3/4 it would be interesting to confirm the visual differences - the elevators is one to look at, and I beleive there were differences in some of the minor vents/exhausts on the fuselage?

[tempestfan]

I built the MB kit as a JP5B back in the 80s when the Airfix kits were as rare as hen's teeth and even more expensive!

They must have hidden, then. I bought a load (around a dozen) of the 1973 and 75 boxings at two or three stores around Hamburg in the early 90s, and I left some, actually.

I did an A to M comparison way back when, and IIRC the Airfix fuselage is much more subtle (for lack of a better) especially with regards to the intake shapes. No idea if it is better actually, but IF that is indeed the case, I guess the A designers will not have plucked this from mid-air - but it would probably be only noticeable when both stand directly beside each other.