Spanish Civil War GB II 33 and STILL growing!

[jrlx]

Hi Tony,

Great to hear you'll be well soon!

Thanks for adding me to the list. no apologies needed

Now that is a great challenge you have thrown my way I really like the aircraft! Challenge accepted! That'll be my entry to the GB, if I can wait that long

Cheers

Jaime

[TonyTiger66]

Hi Tony,

I think its a translation of this one:

Thank you Antoine I think it is. I haven't seen the French edition; it has a superb cover.

'Owl Decals' have released a number of different resin and decal sets to create the Legion Condor Ju 52 Befehlsbomber and transport configurations appropriate to the SCW. Also a seized Republican Ju 52.

Some of the sets include the very characterful 'dustbin' ventral machine gun post. I think they're designed for the Revell/Italeri kits but I bet a Heller kit would be fine too. I rather like the Heller Ju 52; extremely nicely done corrugated surface.

The cover of the French book reminded me of these 'Tante Ju'

Thanks for all of your help and support in posting great resources of kits and books Antoine. My mothers father (my maternal Grandfather) was French, although he ended up serving in the British Navy in WWII (these things happen). He used to call me 'Antoine'. He also taught me how to write and I learned French language right from the start as I spent a lot of time with him.

Nice that there are at least two 'Antoines' here

Best regards

Tony

[max39]

Well done all.Im very impressed at the bizarre collection of aircraft and vechiles.Ive learnt a lot looking at all the kits on show.

Richard

[TonyTiger66]

Something a little different. The Italian 'Hymn for the Submariners'. This dates in reality from the end of the SCW and although originally a Fascist song, is now a standard part of Italian military repertoire:

https://youtu.be/Mvu4XnHilXI

A large Italian naval force was involved in the SCW, including submarines. Here is a picture of one of the submarines sent, the Galileo:

This and another of the same class became a part of the Spanish Nationalist naval force.

The Republican Navy of course possessed its own submarine force, of which elements of the 'C Class' were mobilised as soon as Franco started to transport Moorish forces out of North Aftica and into Southern Spain.

Here is the C4:

I will discuss U boats, Spanish Marines, The Republican Naval Air Wing and more in due course, but if anyone would like to contribute please do. I'm sincerely hoping for a naval modeller as I haven't seen this area covered in any BM GB yet.

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

Looking at the photo the painting was based on and the nature of light in an Antarctic summer (observe the angle of the U-Boat shadows), the glare from the reflected background and so on, I think RLM63 is much more likely (sorry to diagree Jason). The difference of opinion is explained by the first use on the Haunebau was a gloss or high satin finish rather than the matt used later by the Luftwaffe. A good resource is HERE but the old myth of the first flights in 1939 is repeated when, of course, that is when the programme was revealed.

Back on Topic I don't think the Haunebau should be allowed as Tony Tiger suggests. No information on SCW use has emerged from the Antarctic or Luftwaffe archives and the activities of all known and suspected crew are known with reasonable certainty. The B-57 is another matter though.....

I'm glad you're with me on the Haunebu. The link you provided is superb, many thanks It's good to find a web based source with reliable photographs, blueprints and records of flights taken and maximum speeds of the Luftwaffe flying saucers.

I think it's absolutely splendid that such details are given, as the Van-Der Graf Generator providing the necessary power not only for the anti-gravity drives, but for the phaser guns.

So many commentators gloss over these important details. Still, it's off topic so let's look again at Frank Tinker's B-57. I did further research today and, it seems he did indeed receive one !

This was not part of the shipment diverted from Bratislava. It was shipped on the 'Mare Sagrada Vomitoso Billioso III' from Argentina to San Sebastián on the 17th October 1936. It was cunningly hidden under a bulk shipment of Corned Beef; essential wartime food supplies. Unfortunately, it had to be dismantled to be transported inland. Moreover it had to be broken down into very small units as it was transported, clandestinely, by donkey (burro).

Antonio Assolutas Tallstorias, in his book 'My Life As Frank Tinker's Podiatrist' relates how one day, 36 donkeys arrived at the airbase, panniers full, the strange aroma of warm corned beef all around. A Russian mechanic (reputed to be Antoniev Flopadopolov)!then proceeded to empty the panniers and shiny pieces of metal, hoses, tyres and wheels appeared.

Every one understood and all sat around, drinking Sangria, Beer, Wine, Horlicks and Gripe Water singing songs while Flopadopolov spent the whole night reassembling the parts into a B-57. It still had its US markings, as it was only a loan model (like the Boeing Peashooter, and look how badly that all turned out ) so red stripes were applied by a volunteer Catan impressionist artist, Xavier Ethetheth.

Here is the only known picture of Frank Tinker in the aircraft:

And here is the only known picture of the aircraft:

As can be seen, the early B-57's were, quite understandably given the era, prop driven. Frank Tinker is unmistakably present in the rear cockpit seat.

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

Well done all.Im very impressed at the bizarre collection of aircraft and vechiles.Ive learnt a lot looking at all the kits on show.

Richard

Thanks Richard that's really appreciated If you'd like to join our merry bunch and build something a bit different you'd be more than welcome.

All that is needed is kit, glue and to be a little bonkers

Best regards

Tony

[Sgt.Squarehead]

WTF have you lot been drinking?

[TonyTiger66]

WTF have you lot been drinking?

Mainly Lemon Barley Water for me Sarge.

TT

[Antoine]

Thanks for all of your help and support in posting great resources of kits and books Antoine. My mothers father (my maternal Grandfather) was French, although he ended up serving in the British Navy in WWII (these things happen). He used to call me 'Antoine'. He also taught me how to write and I learned French language right from the start as I spent a lot of time with him.

Nice that there are at least two 'Antoines' here

My pleasure, Antoine, my pleasure! Maybe you were christened after De Saint Exupéry, as I was?

My father was a great fan.

About the ressources posted, I feel they provide some inspiration, it's not a way to show my stash/booshelves.

I'd love to see everyone else do the same.

About the Tinker thing, I've two italeri B-57, and project for three (Pak AF, SVNAF, and a B-57G)!!!

But you never know...

[TonyTiger66]

It's great for people to share resources and pictures of kits Antoine. We spend a lot of time and money and do a lot of research to get our collections. We can often learn of something new just by looking at the kits others have

David Nash's website does not have all the kits listed, many, but not all. It's why I try to keep mentioning ones that aren't there, or new conversion sets.

It would be very nice to have been named after Antoine De Saint Expéry, but in my case it is just a family name.

My sense of humour can be quite absurd, but the thought of a B-57 being flown by Frank Tinker really makes me smile. So many of the SCW myths are just, well, hard to believe, even when it turns out they are true. I tried to write in the style of some I have read about.

There is a particularly fascinating story about a Salmson engined Potez XXV, potatoes and a ship; and this time I'm not joking!

I hope more people will post away; we shouldn't hide our interesting collections, often guiltily (from people that don't approve) in dark corners.

Here in this SCW GB chat is somewhere we can 'show and tell'

All best regards

Tony

[Levin]

I am in

though i probably build a "boring" I-16

Edited August 9, 2016 by Levin

[SleeperService]

I am in

though i probably build a "boring" I-16

There is no such thing as a boring I-16

WTF have you lot been drinking?

Who needs drink when you're on the meds I am

Mainly Lemon Barley Water for me Sarge.

TT

Sorry to hear of your ill-health, my friend suffers and I know how frustrating it is for him. I hope you are up and about soon.

[TonyTiger66]

I am in

though i probably build a "boring" I-16

Welcome on board Levin! I agree with SleeperService, absolutely no such thing as a boring I-16!

One of my all time favourite aircraft .

Thanks for joining us; 1 more and we're at the 2/3 stage!

Best regards

Tony

[Levin]

There is no such thing as a boring I-16

Welcome on board Levin! I agree with SleeperService, absolutely no such thing as a boring I-16!

One of my all time favourite aircraft .

Ok was bad formulated by me;

I meant it more in the way of omnipresent

what a tricky language english is

Edit:

I may build more than one model right?

Edited August 9, 2016 by Levin

[TonyTiger66]

Hi Tony,

Great to hear you'll be well soon!

Thanks for adding me to the list. no apologies needed

Now that is a great challenge you have thrown my way I really like the aircraft! Challenge accepted! That'll be my entry to the GB, if I can wait that long

Cheers

Jaime

Hi Jaime! Many thanks for the well wishes

You're a brave man to try the Vildebeeste! Thank you for volunteering

I found some information that might be of interest.

On the Spanish Republican side there were three dreadnought class battleships.

One of them was called?

Jaime I

Named after James of Aragon. Here is a profile of the ship from Wikipedia:

and here is a photograph of the ship in Tenerife in May 1936:

A quite lovely model of it can be found on this link:

http://www3.udg.edu/fcee/professors/gcoenders/Jaime%20I.htm

It was the last of the España class of Dreadnought destroyer to be made and saw a fair bit of action, and was attacked, during the conflict.

A personal link for you Jaime!

All best regards

Tony

Edited to include link.

[jrlx]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reference to the Spanish ship with my name It's an awesome vessel! When I built kits as a kid, I did aircraft, sailing ships and modern war ships. Once in a while I take a look at the Maritime RFI section here at BM and get awestruck by the superb large scale war ships our fellow BMers there build. Unfortunately I don't have the space to venture that way...

On the other hand, my aircraft stash is big enough to last till my retirement and beyond

And I keep adding to it, as I'm always stumbling upon really interesting new types Like the Vildebeeste

Cheers

Jaime

[TonyTiger66]

I would like to welcome on board whitestar12chris; he has agreed to be our submarine modeller .

He provided me with this link to information, in English, pertaining to the very first two U-boats sent to Spain; U-33 and U-34:

http://www.dubm.de/lang1/the_spanish_civil_war.html

I have shared it here as it is a part of the war that is shrouded in a great deal of secrecy, still, yet historically very important.

Records suggest that up to 14 U-boats were eventually sent to Spain, a third of the Kriegsmarine fleet, so this was a major engagement.

In terms of U-33 and U-34, class VIIA U Boats, these two, sent at the start of the war, were covert in nature. On the way back to Germany U-34 sank the Republican submarine C-3, so the covert activity was not insubstantial.

U-33 went on to WWII and to be sank in the Firth of Clyde, Scotland. I used to live near here, so it is fascinating how these things can link up in one's life. Rotors from an Enigma machine were recovered from the crew of U-33, yet it took some years more to crack the machines.

Here is a picture of U-33 from Wikipedia commons:

and here of U-34 and sister ships:

I have volunteered for the He-111 but in addition, if a kit can be found of, for example, one of the C class Spanish submarines, I will try to build one.

If anyone has information on any kits of these, or the Italian subs, please share away

Thanks again Chris,

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

Ok was bad formulated by me;

I meant it more in the way of omnipresent

what a tricky language english is

Edit:

I may build more than one model right?

Hi Levin,

We were only joking , we knew what you meant

I have to say that I-16's are very omnipresent (superb word ) for me. I've been trying to build one I am happy with for around 12 years and I still haven't succeeded !

I keep trying, I have two and a UTI-4 on a WIP here on BM. One is very nearly finished now, as long as nothing else goes wrong .

I am a little concerned that it has taken me since April to build one tiny Amodel I-16. It has been a learning process

What kit and scale do you think you will be building?

Best regards

Tony

PS: Yes, you can build more than one, it would be great

[TonyTiger66]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the reference to the Spanish ship with my name It's an awesome vessel! When I built kits as a kid, I did aircraft, sailing ships and modern war ships. Once in a while I take a look at the Maritime RFI section here at BM and get awestruck by the superb large scale war ships our fellow BMers there build. Unfortunately I don't have the space to venture that way...

On the other hand, my aircraft stash is big enough to last till my retirement and beyond

And I keep adding to it, as I'm always stumbling upon really interesting new types Like the Vildebeeste

Cheers

Jaime

Hi Jaime,

Don't worry, I wasn't expecting you to build a huge ship too !

I just found it whilst I was doing a little research. What a beautiful model that professor made...

I know what you mean about the models "to retirement and beyond" (that sounds quite 'Buzz Lightyear' ).

My stash is so large it has its own gravitational field and is at risk of collapsing and forming a black hole. It has certainly created a black hole in my bank account...

If I live to the age of 653 years old, I may just be able make a start on the kits I like most.

And still I buy more

Best regards

Tony

[Levin]

Hi Levin,

We were only joking , we knew what you meant

I have to say that I-16's are very omnipresent (superb word ) for me. I've been trying to build one I am happy with for around 12 years and I still haven't succeeded !

I keep trying, I have two and a UTI-4 on a WIP here on BM. One is very nearly finished now, as long as nothing else goes wrong .

I am a little concerned that it has taken me since April to build one tiny Amodel I-16. It has been a learning process

What kit and scale do you think you will be building?

Best regards

Tony

PS: Yes, you can build more than one, it would be great

ICMs in 1/72 i think

and eventually their he 51 or i 15 (also 1/72; like that scale)( they do kinda many scw subjects, don't they?)

[jrlx]

This is probably already known to many, but those looking for a detailed account of the SCW could find a good one in Antony Beevor's "The Battle for Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939", 2nd Edition.

Probably less well known is the participation of Portuguese volunteers integrated in Franco's Nationalist forces. These volunteers were known as "Viriatos" and were unofficially supported by Salazar's fascist regime in Portugal. Anti-fascist Portuguese volunteers also integrated the International Brigades, supporting the Republic. Many of these were already exiled, having escaped the fascist regime in Portugal.

The Portuguese fascist regime established refugee camps near the border, to receive those fleeing from the war in Spain. Shamefully, those found to be Republicans were sent back to Franco's forces, for execution.

Portugal only got rid of the fascist regime in 25 April 1974, in a military coup, while Franco ruled Spain till his death in 1975.

For those who can read Portuguese, there's a fine novel about the times of the SCW as seen from Portugal, including the participation of the Portuguese "Viriatos": "A Vida num Sopro", by José Rodrigues dos Santos. Some of his novels are already translated to English, French and Spanish but this one doesn't seem to be.

Cheers

Jaime

[styreno]

I'm interested in doing a Ju-52 3m bomber . I am aware of the Owl conversions, but really wanted something simpler, mainly the dustbin ventral gun position.

Anyone know of a readily available (and less expensive) alternative to the Owl conversion set?

Styreno

Edited August 10, 2016 by styreno

[TonyTiger66]

ICMs in 1/72 i think

and eventually their he 51 or i 15 (also 1/72; like that scale)( they do kinda many scw subjects, don't they?)

They certainly do; they're nice kits too. They also have the He-70 in a few boxings, then the very nice SB-2. The latter has very fine undercarriage detailing and the kit build is like making a real airoplane . I'm building it very, very slowly in spare moments.

The paint schemes and decals for ICM's He-51 are just lovely

For the I-16, it will need some alterations to bring it back to a 'type 10' but it's nothing too difficult. The I-15 is really nice, but the cockpit framing only fits if the floor is first narrowed a lot; ask me how I know .

I haven't tried the I-15 bis but I have one in the stash. I notice Print-Scale have just released some decals for the I-15; they look good.

Just with ICM a very nice SCW aircraft collection can be modelled.

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

This is probably already known to many, but those looking for a detailed account of the SCW could find a good one in Antony Beevor's "The Battle for Spain: The Spanish Civil War 1936-1939", 2nd Edition.

Probably less well known is the participation of Portuguese volunteers integrated in Franco's Nationalist forces. These volunteers were known as "Viriatos" and were unofficially supported by Salazar's fascist regime in Portugal. Anti-fascist Portuguese volunteers also integrated the International Brigades, supporting the Republic. Many of these were already exiled, having escaped the fascist regime in Portugal.

The Portuguese fascist regime established refugee camps near the border, to receive those fleeing from the war in Spain. Shamefully, those found to be Republicans were sent back to Franco's forces, for execution.

Portugal only got rid of the fascist regime in 25 April 1974, in a military coup, while Franco ruled Spain till his death in 1975.

For those who can read Portuguese, there's a fine novel about the times of the SCW as seen from Portugal, including the participation of the Portuguese "Viriatos": "A Vida num Sopro", by José Rodrigues dos Santos. Some of his novels are already translated to English, French and Spanish but this one doesn't seem to be.

Cheers

Jaime

Thank you Jaime that's great information that I'm sure is new to many ears; and regarding the Portugese fascist managed refugee camps, is news to me too.

Absolutely fascinating. I can't really read Portugese; do you know if that book is available in French, Spanish or Italian? I would love to read it

I am ashamed to say that although I have read Antony Beevor's incredible (and vast) book on Stalingrad, I haven't yet read his SCW book. I have it. It's a bit like a meal where I'm leaving the 'best for last' because I just know it's going to be superb.

I was thinking today; in many ways when I first suggested this GB I wish I had extended it to include the years of Franco's rule. Lots of interesting military modelling subjects, unique to Spain, are available for that period; HA 1112 Buchon, conversion sets to make CASA 2111, decals to make post-civil war Angelitos and Jungmanns, Hispano HA 200 Saeta, it goes on.

Is it too late to open the build up to this era too? Effectively until the end of the dictatorship in 1975, it's a fascinating historical period.

Let me know what you all think

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

I'm interested in doing a Ju-52 3m bomber . I am aware of the Owl conversions, but really wanted something simpler, mainly the dustbin ventral gun position.

Anyone know of a readily available (and less expensive) alternative to the Owl conversion set?

Styreno

Hi Styreno, A Tante Ju would be very welcome; without them I wonder how the war would have begun?

There is a long OOP ventral 'dustbin' position set from Guano Modelworks. For very early short run injection moulding it's quite good.

The plans are probably more useful than the plastic as they show just where to cut and scribe in the fuselage floor and so on.

Classic Plane do a complete Befehlsbomber kit, the base of which is the Heller kit. Unfortunately they don't do a seperate conversion set .

It is possible to model a SCW Ju-52 without the dustbin section, for example at least one of the transports didn't have one, I have the matriculation number and a profile on my HD somewhere, happy to find it for you

Also there is the single Ju-52 See, for which the Italeri kit (or even the old Airfix) would be a highly suitable starting point. Finally, within the remit if this GB, tyre was at least one German registered ambulance Ju-52 replete with red crosses on the side. Again I can provide details if that would help?

To scratch build the ventral dustbin wouldn't be too hard and I do have plans for it. If you have any 'AeroPlast' kits, the little plastic glue pots that come with them (e.g. their BF 109 B, C, D) are quite a useful size for a ventral dustbin body in 1/72

Obscure, but true!

Shall I add you to the list Styreno?

Would be great to have you on board

Best regards

Tony